Helium and OC

General topics about technical diving.
User avatar
Joshua Smith
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10242
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:32 pm

Helium and OC

Post by Joshua Smith »

So, I just finished a 6 month dry spell with a few tune up dives before a deep dive tomorrow. My fill station partner had warned me that the cost of HE had gone way up, but I don't pay much attention to gas costs. It's always been quite reasonable w my ccr. So, I blended up a fresh dil tank of 10/60 just now, punched it in to our calculator, and promptly had a stroke. A fill that cost me about 6 bucks last summer is now $22.76.

Oh well. I mean, that's not so bad in the grand scheme of things, but my first thought was "can anyone afford to do OC tech diving these days? That cost was for an almost empty steel 22. I just checked what a 10/60 fill would cost in db 130s, and came up with $257.14. We're paying $1.49/cf for HE. Keep in mind that I'm only going to use 30-40% of my fill on this dive, whereas an OC diver will use more like 60% of theirs.
Maritime Documentation Society

"To venture into the terrible loneliness, one must have something greater than greed. Love. One needs love for life, for intrigue, for mystery."
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Jeff Pack »

My helium is around half that per cf, 1.49 is more like a retail price
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
Joshua Smith
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10242
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:32 pm

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Joshua Smith »

Who's your supplier? And what grade of HE?
Maritime Documentation Society

"To venture into the terrible loneliness, one must have something greater than greed. Love. One needs love for life, for intrigue, for mystery."
User avatar
H20doctor
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4225
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Helium and OC

Post by H20doctor »

23 bucks sounds like a good fill to me .... also a good reason to buy a Rebreather
NWDC Rule #2 Pictures Or it didn't Happen
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by spatman »

Joshua Smith wrote:Who's your supplier? And what grade of HE?
I'd like to know that as well. I certainly can't afford retail helium fills these days.
Image
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Jeff Pack »

Joshua Smith wrote:Who's your supplier? And what grade of HE?
Uhp, from Pacific welding in tacoma
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
kdupreez
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by kdupreez »

my helium has gone up about 10%

OC trimix is not a problem at $0.45 per cft.. :) regular helium is just fine for me.

but, UHP Is about $0.65
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
Tangfish
NWDC Mascot
NWDC Mascot
Posts: 7746
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:11 pm

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Tangfish »

You'd think there'd be a little more economies of scale in the universe's second most abundant element.
User avatar
GearHead
Submariner
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:32 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by GearHead »

While Helium is indeed plentiful in the grand scheme, most of it is extraterrestrial and locked inside those big thermonuclear reactors. Terrestrial Helium mostly comes from pockets on top of oil deposits.
User avatar
Linedog
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1268
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Linedog »

I thought it came from balloons.
Pop tarts and gravy,
It's what's for breakfast.
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Jeff Pack »

Linedog wrote:I thought it came from balloons.
that's methane, you silly ninny
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
jeffgerritsen
Dive-aholic
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by jeffgerritsen »

The supplier I use for O2 and He just had a 21 percent price increase Feb 1st, 2014. 99.9999 now costs $195 for a 244 cuft and $245 for UHP 244 cuft cylinder - ouch! :eek:
User avatar
ljjames
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Helium and OC

Post by ljjames »

Just keep in mind that the folks who are describing helium valhalla also spend a pretty penny on a booster (often in addition to a compressor) their own time filling, and then maintenance on said booster & compressor. What they say they gain is 'fill whenever they want" but last time i checked, Scott was pretty damn flexible.

What would be good is a realistic cost of Helium across the board as opposed to a discussion that could theoretically imply that people are getting hosed by their dive shop selling helium. Only based on personal experience having a shop and maintaining everything, but I'm fine with buying helium from T-scuba at whatever price they sell it to me at :) (for a single 80 and my CCR Bottles) so that i can spend more time diving and less wanking with gear.
----
"I survived the Brittandrea Dorikulla, where's my T-shirt!"
User avatar
kdupreez
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by kdupreez »

Laura is completely right, these are whole sale helium pricing.

Retail is around $0.80 - $1.00 at the shops around here and over $1.00 per cft being on the higher end of the scale for PNW, but not unheard of. Shops also probably use UHP and thats quite a bit more than regular helium.

The last time I paid retail pricing up north in BC, we paid about $1.20 per cft on Vancouver Island and that was 3 years ago.

And agreed, a booster and compressor system is required to pump your own trimix, which is mostly a convenience and not by any means a cost saver.. I dont think I could breathe enough helium in a lifetime to make up for that investment in savings of $0.20 per cft over retail..

I think the moral of the story from Josh's post is that Helium prices have sky rocketed.. My wholesale price has gone up in the past 4 years by about 45 - 50%
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Jeff Pack »

For me, its not price, its time...If I lived right near a shop, it'd be different, but I have a 1hr round trip to Tacoma, and that's two trips, one to drop off, the other to go get it. Plus I don't get back down south during the week till after they close, so only day I can get tanks is saturday (dive day, so that wont work), or sunday (clean gear day, spend some time with the dive widow, spousal harmony threatened otherwise). So that doesn't work out well either.

I already have a big compressor for my machine shop, so my only expense was bottles and booster. In return I can mix whatever gas I want/need, whenever I want to.

So its not always about convenience either, but its a nice side benefit.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
jeffgerritsen
Dive-aholic
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by jeffgerritsen »

Don't forget to factor in the cost of driving to the local dive shop. At $.44 a mile, travel costs can add up quickly. So for example, the nearest shop that has trimix is in Tacoma about 20 miles. Round trip that's $17.60 in vehicle costs. $.44 per mile is on the low side. Most vehicle per mile costs are up in the $.60 - $.70 range.

That said, cost pay back is still a lot of He to breathe. The biggest factor for me is convenience. Plus I can take the booster with me for a weekend dive and boost from a 80cuft tank into my RB bottles at remote sites - lake Crescent for example.
User avatar
pensacoladiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: Helium and OC

Post by pensacoladiver »

Out here in paradise, a bottle of UHP is $500. Industrial is $400.

We used to have a shop out here that sold helium for 1 buck a cubic foot. Unfortunately, they lost their base contract and had to close up.

The remaining shop that does trimix can't find their ass with 2 hands and a map.

If you are not self sufficient out here, you don't dive deep... Or you do it on air.
User avatar
jeffgerritsen
Dive-aholic
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by jeffgerritsen »

Pensacoladiver,
I feel your pain. Living in Portland OR, I don't believe there is a single LDS that has He, and few know what He is used for! Of course trimix is the "real" voodoo gas! After hearing about the price you pay for He I'll not complain so loudly.

pensacoladiver wrote:Out here in paradise, a bottle of UHP is $500. Industrial is $400.

We used to have a shop out here that sold helium for 1 buck a cubic foot. Unfortunately, they lost their base contract and had to close up.

The remaining shop that does trimix can't find their ass with 2 hands and a map.

If you are not self sufficient out here, you don't dive deep... Or you do it on air.
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by spatman »

jeffgerritsen wrote:The supplier I use for O2 and He just had a 21 percent price increase Feb 1st, 2014. 99.9999 now costs $195 for a 244 cuft and $245 for UHP 244 cuft cylinder - ouch! :eek:
What supplier do you use here in PDX, Jeff?
Image
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Jeff Pack »

He gets it up here through the shop
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
pensacoladiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: Helium and OC

Post by pensacoladiver »

Ehhhh, being on a rEvo now, I can't bitch about much at all.

I guess I could bitch about ABO. What used to cost me $45 for a big bottle is now $150 out here in Oahu.

It's good to have friends in low places!
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Jeff Pack »

ouch!
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
jeffgerritsen
Dive-aholic
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by jeffgerritsen »

I purchase through Northwest welding supply in Kent, close to where I work part time.
spatman wrote:
jeffgerritsen wrote:The supplier I use for O2 and He just had a 21 percent price increase Feb 1st, 2014. 99.9999 now costs $195 for a 244 cuft and $245 for UHP 244 cuft cylinder - ouch! :eek:
What supplier do you use here in PDX, Jeff?
User avatar
jeffgerritsen
Dive-aholic
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by jeffgerritsen »

Double ouch.
pensacoladiver wrote:Ehhhh, being on a rEvo now, I can't bitch about much at all.

I guess I could bitch about ABO. What used to cost me $45 for a big bottle is now $150 out here in Oahu.

It's good to have friends in low places!
User avatar
Linedog
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1268
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Helium and OC

Post by Linedog »

Pop tarts and gravy,
It's what's for breakfast.
Post Reply