Learning Doubles?

[Pez7378]

After Rescue next month, I will be setting my sights on learning how to dive doubles. Other than the expense of buying new cylinders, bands, manifolds, regulators, bp/w etc etc. (is that even really necessary?) what should I expect? Is there an actual class? Or do I just say, Hey will someone take me out and show me how to do this. (I've had some generous offers and I appreciate them very much) Do I need to learn Deco procedures right away? I feel like I will be learning to dive all over again. How many of you diving doubles still dive with a single cylinder? How often? Like those considering DIRF I'm stuck wondering if there is more I need to learn before learning more, or if I am ready to learn how to manage more gas, more weight, longer bottom times etc.

So? What do you all think?

[Grateful Diver]

After Rescue next month, I will be setting my sights on learning how to dive doubles. Other than the expense of buying new cylinders, bands, manifolds, regulators, bp/w etc etc. (is that even really necessary?) what should I expect? Is there an actual class? Or do I just say, Hey will someone take me out and show me how to do this. (I've had some generous offers and I appreciate them very much) Do I need to learn Deco procedures right away? I feel like I will be learning to dive all over again. How many of you diving doubles still dive with a single cylinder? How often? Like those considering DIRF I'm stuck wondering if there is more I need to learn before learning more, or if I am ready to learn how to manage more gas, more weight, longer bottom times etc.

So? What do you all think?

Chris, I'd be happy to take you out ... and first make sure you've got your setup proper. Feel free to ask questions prior to or after any of our rescue sessions. If you want to get there a little early, I can go over the basic setup with you prior to class.

You don't need deco procedures until you're ready to take a deco class ... you should be comfortable in your doubles (sans deco bottle) first. Things to work on include weighting, buoyancy control, trim, valve drills, and not allowing your SPG to control your dive.

Learning curves vary wildly ... I struggled to learn doubles, spending many dives learning buoyancy control and trim all over again. Lamont, on the other hand, got in the water for the first time with them and looked like he'd been diving them all along ... pissed me right off. Most folks are somewhere in between those two extremes.

Pacific Rim (aka 5th D) does occasionally offer a doubles workshop. I took it, and I'd recommend it if they should offer it within your requisite time frame.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Cold_H2O]

I am almost ready to dive doubles.
I need to purchase a manifold and bands.

Bob ~ once I have my baby 80's joined would love to have you with me to make suggestions and comments.

I wonder if I spend more time diving with Lamont if his natural skill will rub off on me.

[Burntchef]

chris dont you allready have a dss back plate? if so dont buy another one. there really easy to swap around. the only pain is if you dont have enough regs then your allways swapping hoses around. i love my doubles so much i sold my single tank. as for a wing you may want to pm nailer, he is going ccr in nov and i believe he is selling his golem doubles wing. i know im picking up his set of twins.

[Pez7378]

Bob, we're gonna have to schedule some dive days! It would be no problem to arrive a little early for class. I would be "Grateful".

Good point Howard, it would be easier and cheaper to swap the wing. Are other wings compatible with my backplate?

Thanks for the responses! It's amazing how much you can learn simply by asking questions. As always I now have some new things to consider. Please keep the responses coming. I love to hear about everyone else's experiences and insights.

[Grateful Diver]

Bob, we're gonna have to schedule some dive days! It would be no problem to arrive a little early for class. I would be "Grateful".

Good point Howard, it would be easier and cheaper to swap the wing. Are other wings compatible with my backplate?

Thanks for the responses! It's amazing how much you can learn simply by asking questions. As always I now have some new things to consider. Please keep the responses coming. I love to hear about everyone else's experiences and insights.

Yes, virtually any doubles wing is gonna be compatible with your DSS plate. I can let you try a couple different wings (Halcyon Evolve 60 and DSS Torus 49) ... depending on what cylinders you choose one of these might suit your needs.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Grateful Diver]

I am almost ready to dive doubles.
I need to purchase a manifold and bands.

Bob ~ once I have my baby 80's joined would love to have you with me to make suggestions and comments.

Anytime, Colleen ...

I wonder if I spend more time diving with Lamont if his natural skill will rub off on me.

Didn't work for me ... ](*,)

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[peo]

I think Bob summed it up pretty well, but I'd like to add a few things:

While momentum, buoyancy and trim are tangible differences when beginning to dive doubles, some of the more sublime differences have to do with the different error scenarios you can get yourself into, along with their symptoms. If you take Fundamentals, Intro to Tech or something similar, this will (hopefully) be covered in relative depth. Just remember that unless you understand these things, diving doubles has the potential to be more dangerous than diving singles.

Another observation, arguing against myself for a second, is that people who have taken Fundamentals in general seem to have a much easier time adapting to the buoyancy and trim changes in doubles than people who start diving doubles before their class.

[dsteding]

Chris-

I'll echo the offers to take you out, I can let you borrow my gear and tanks so you can get familiar with things before making decisions. I think at the minimum it makes sense to have a second set of regs, the doubles (obviously) and an appropriate wing. I happen to have a different plate because I happen to have it, but it isn't necessary.

It's a good idea to try some different tanks out and consider what you are using them for. I've gone from 119s to 95s to 130s to 100s and now have two sets of those. I like how they are light weight, and they are sufficient for my foreseable future in terms of dive needs.

I have an extra wing for sale that might be a good one depending on the tanks you decide to use, a Halcyon Evolve 60 . . .

-Doug

[Joshua Smith]

I found myself in the position of getting my doubles finally set up the night before I started my adv. eanx/ deco proceedures class w/ Mel Clark, so I didn't get to try them out.....

Anyway, I met Mel and the rest of the students down at Cove 2, she went over my gear configuration with me, taught me how to clip off my SPG to my right chest D ring (in order to increase my chances of killing someone with it! ); we got in the water, and it was......great. They trimmed out just fine, my weighting guesstimate was about right, and I was free to concentrate on learning my new skills with 200 cf of gas on my back! I'm just lucky, I guess, but for me, learning how to dive doubles was a LOT easier than learning how to dive singles.

And I've had some awesome dives with them, but I CAN'T FREAKING WAIT TO SELL THE HEAVY FREAKING THINGS! I do, indeed have a 55# Golem wing for sale, come mid- November, along with a sweet pair of LP98s!

[Burntchef]

those lp98s are mine sucka!

[Pez7378]

If you take Fundamentals, Intro to Tech or something similar, this will (hopefully) be covered in relative depth.

Fundamentals is probably in my future at some point. Although I could be wrong though, wasn't it designed to be done in Doubles?

Just remember that unless you understand these things, diving doubles has the potential to be more dangerous than diving singles.

I understand this point. I plan on moving very slowly and methodically. It's definately taking it to the next level as far as I'm concerned.

Another observation, arguing against myself for a second, is that people who have taken Fundamentals in general seem to have a much easier time adapting to the buoyancy and trim changes in doubles than people who start diving doubles before their class.

This is possibly a topic for another thread? DIRF in single rig or doubles?

Chris-

I'll echo the offers to take you out, I can let you borrow my gear and tanks so you can get familiar with things before making decisions. I think at the minimum it makes sense to have a second set of regs, the doubles (obviously) and an appropriate wing. I happen to have a different plate because I happen to have it, but it isn't necessary.

It's a good idea to try some different tanks out and consider what you are using them for. I've gone from 119s to 95s to 130s to 100s and now have two sets of those. I like how they are light weight, and they are sufficient for my foreseable future in terms of dive needs.

I have an extra wing for sale that might be a good one depending on the tanks you decide to use, a Halcyon Evolve 60 . . .

-Doug

Thanks Doug. You'll be hearing from me.

[LCF]

I'd also be happy to go out with anybody who wants a companion to play with diving doubles.

In a short time, we will have LP72s, LP85s and HP100s available to try.

In my experience, unlike single tanks, doubles are somewhat diver-dependent. With a single tank, you can generally move it around, and move weight around enough to balance. With doubles, if you have the wrong combination of tank length and weight for the diver, you may never be able to trim them out perfectly. I dove my LP72s for months, fighting to master them, and the first time I put on the 85s, it was like a sigh of relief.

Peo is entirely correct, that the mechanical issues of learning to cope with the weight and balance differences of doubles are trivial, compared with learning to manage the various failure scenarios and the decision-making based upon them.

The amazing thing is that, despite the considerable weight and effort involved, I actually like diving my doubles more than a single tank nowadays, although I dive singles where there are difficult entries or if we are diving off a boat in shallow depths. Laura James told me I'd end up loving them, and I scoffed, but she was right. I just wish they were lighter . . .

[Curt McNamee]

After Rescue next month, I will be setting my sights on learning how to dive doubles. Other than the expense of buying new cylinders, bands, manifolds, regulators, bp/w etc etc. (is that even really necessary?) what should I expect? Is there an actual class? Or do I just say, Hey will someone take me out and show me how to do this. (I've had some generous offers and I appreciate them very much) Do I need to learn Deco procedures right away? I feel like I will be learning to dive all over again. How many of you diving doubles still dive with a single cylinder? How often? Like those considering DIRF I'm stuck wondering if there is more I need to learn before learning more, or if I am ready to learn how to manage more gas, more weight, longer bottom times etc.

So? What do you all think?

John Rawlings has some very nice used twins for sale.

[Diver_Dave]

John Rawlings has some very nice used twins for sale.[/quote]
Im buying the dule 108s from John

[Pez7378]

I think "sampling" a few different set-ups is the way to go. I did consider buying those twin 95's from Mr. Rawlings but just couldn't follow through. Sometimes I overthink things and my buddy says I have a case of "Cantdecideitous" It's a good thing too because some of my spontaneous scuba purchases have been disasters.

Thank you everyone for the generous offers to take me out and show me the ropes (although I suspect that youre all just looking for any excuse to go diving ) Now, how am I gonna schedule this..................Bob on Fri, Doug on Sat, Lynne on Sun.......Hmmm gonna have to schedule Matt during the week....... Hehehehe. Well, after Rescue you will be hearing from me. I hear that Pac. Rim (5th D) is having that doubles workshop this weekend. It's too soon for me but I may look for it again in the future.......

[Sergeant Pepper]

Another observation, arguing against myself for a second, is that people who have taken Fundamentals in general seem to have a much easier time adapting to the buoyancy and trim changes in doubles than people who start diving doubles before their class.

This is possibly a topic for another thread? DIRF in single rig or doubles?

I did DIRF in a single, but I did it for a different reason than most. Most people I have talked to have designs on going on to tech in which case, you're looking at doubles. In my case, I just wanted to improve my diving and search out a dive philosophy that made sense to me. Of course, assuming you pass DIRF on a single, you pass the class as a recreational diver and cannot move onto the tech classes until you re-demonstrate your skills in a doubles rig. I may never, but at least I have the option, and the class is well worth it.

[LCF]

I did DIRF in a single tank, and it was a wonderful thing to do, and improved my diving from that point onward. When I took the class, I didn't have any ambitions beyond getting wet and looking at fish, but I subsequently fell in love with the idea of cave diving. I moved on to doubles, and I will say that I think it was MUCH easier because I had an idea of what balance and trim were like before I got that far.

You can get a lot out of DIRF without every putting on a double tank setup.

If you think you ARE interested in going on to tech or cave, you can do DIRF in a single tank and upgrade to a tech pass in doubles at a later time.

Or you can dive your doubles until you're really comfy in them, and then take DIRF in doubles.

All those approaches work.