The Skyline Experiment

Tell us your tale of coming nose-to-nose with a 6 gill [--this big--], or about your vacation to turquoise warm waters. Share your adventures here!
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dieseldude
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The Skyline Experiment

Post by dieseldude »

I kicked around a couple of names for this post i.e. "fmerkel-1 dieseldude-0" and "Skyline, Gateway to Rosario Hell"
For those that don't know, this started with me looking for a buddy to dive skyline 5/21. fmerkel was kind enough to point out it wasnt a good day for it & a friendly discussion began on how to pick a "good time to dive" at skyline. I tenatively had an offer to do another dive that I hadnt been to so I dropped my plan in case he was right. This still left me hungry to answer the question. My alternate plans fell through so I elected to make myself a guinea pig & do skyline anyway just to see who knows their stuff about skyline. I should point out for the record, I have only one dive there previously & it sucked big nasty rotten eggs in terms of vis & current but I recognized the potential through all of that. So this is how my day went.....

I started about 7am rechecking the current predictions. My info was to be in the water & drop on the wall about 30minutes prior to slack. Nobody said slack where so I used this:
skyline 521.jpg
I noted that the time had changed 30 minutes later than when I looked it up the 1st time. Made me a little nervous. I headed out early just in case, grabbed my egg McMuffin & med coffee with 2 cream & 2 splenda, & hit the freeway. Weather was overcast with a light breeze coming out of the east on arrival. The surface looked pretty calm & it looked like it would push me the direction I needed to go. The really cool part, there were other divers there. In fact 2 were in the water at the point already(more nervous) I asked the 2 on the street what their take was.
The info was be in the water 1hr before Rosario high slack. I'm dumb so I asked, "when is that this morning"
"Right now" was the answer. Oh Snap! I'm not even in my undergarment yet.
Fortunately I show at a sight with most of my gear cocked, locked, & ready to rock so I was dressed & in the water at 9:12am. I got a free ride down to the point. I seem to remember that the leaning tree was the drop point but then in the back of my head I was thinking I got that from Sunrise. Thats the downside of being a dive whore. After a while, all of your conquests start to blur together. I was later told that your 1st sign of trouble is a "free ride" to the point(at least a swift one).
I dropped at 9:21 in what had to be 1kt easy. No big deal. woo-hoo! ride me baby! Ride me like we goin somewhere!......& then it picked up a little more....still no biggy. got the camera out, attached to the light,set the white balance, set to macro, flash on auto....moving a little faster....faster...your kidding right....faster...air check...lots of air, bouyancy good,vis decent enought to adjust for incoming....dropping down some more...I'll shoot some quick video to show the cool ride I got..
this is point & shoot, unedited & it ends with me getting whipped upside down with bouyant boots. you remember that move they taught you when you 1st got your drysuit? This is the 1st time I ever got to use it & it wasnt my fault. Pay attention to the waving sea cuc's & note that I am holding the camera as still as I can & not kicking at all. fmerkel, take your best guess at current from this, I say 4kts as I rounded the point easy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MxMiNq8M3Q[/youtube]
At this point I clipped off the divelight, clipped off the camera & regrouped. I was thinking this may be a survival dive rather than a photo shoot. I'm still moving as this is all going on & suddenly feeling a little bouyant. It looked like I was traveling straght but I had gone from 70' to 36' rather abruptly. :eek: I'm 20 minutes into the dive now. Air check ok, bouyancy back under control. I dropped down slowly & settled in the 50' range still riding the lightening. clock check tells me slack should be coming so I'm rationalizing this all out that I'm still ok.
I began to think about my situation & how to make the most of it. i was moving too fast for stills. I had to anchor somehow. I started finding hold points. Then a little voice in the back of my head said, "Move slow, thinks small" So my eyes concentrated on each area that I anchored myself in. This Sea cuc was a warmup shot. I love these things.
skyline5212010 009.jpg
Buffalo Sculpin & Red Irish Lords everywhere & they all look pregnant
skyline5212010 020.jpg
Of course there were Urchins-O-Plenty
skyline5212010 029.jpg
this shot reminded me of breakfast-Thats right ladies, some of us men still think about food, after scuba & sex of course :smt064
skyline5212010 033.jpg
appx 48 minutes into the dive I'm at my turnaround pressure & slack time has come & gone except there never was a slack. Now it's hand over 1st against the current & making a slow ascent as I go. i felt more like a rock climber leaping from ledge to ledge looking for the next holding. I started getting a little more picky about my photos. i did shoot 97 which isnt bad considering. I love anemone's, especially the crimson which I have many shots of on this dive. I have never got a whitespotted anemone before & have long searched for the elusive candy stripe shrimp. Guess what I found!?
skyline5212010 053.jpg
skyline5212010 053-1.jpg
yeah baby! And then I found this wicked Nudi that I cant name but think it should be called the Christmas Light Nudibranch:
skyline5212010 059.jpg
Don't you think Red Irish Lords have some really cool eyeballs?
skyline5212010 069.jpg
So I got my groove back even though I hear Poseiden laughin at me & I'm thinking what this place needs is some wolfeels. The guy I met on my way in told me after the dive that he has been here at least 60 times & never seen a wolfie. Check out this juvinile specimen:
skyline5212010 077.jpg
He was all alone full out in the open too. I think maybe bewildered by the current. It was about 78 minutes into the dive now & it was as close to a slack as it ever came.
skyline5212010 084.jpg
Now since someone was anwering my prayers, I figured I'd ask for a grunt sculpin & I got it. Little booger was camera shy though. so feeling a little miffed I moved on & left her alone but I found her boyfriend & he wanted to be famous
skyline5212010 091.jpg
So, what did I learn today:
fmerkel was right, dieseldude was wrong.
Guy on the beach(paul I think) says swim out to point & look for kelp on surface, if you cant see it you are f#*#ed, climb on the rocks & get out(he thumbed the dive after I had dropped)
The whole 1hr before high slack at rosario current station dealio
Kelp visible on the surface.
Sometimes its a good thing when noone from the dive club shows up to dive with me!
Lastly, some sick, twisted part of me really enjoyed this dive, messed up though it was. Mr. merkel owes me a good dive for publicly proclaiming him all wise & allknowing(hint: better pick a good day or I'll have fun at your expense :neener: )
todays dive: 1:29 minutes
max depth 70'
avg depth 41'
bottom temp 48F
Making it back to the car alive: priceless
p.s. In case you didnt get it, I never got a reversal.
MJ
" What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"
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nwbobber
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by nwbobber »

Was the 70 ft to 36 ft thing just buoyancy or was there an up current too? That was an awesome video, looks like a gorgeous place to dive, its going on my list. Now where is that thread about picking a good day....

Found it http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... +%3Dbefore

I made some notes in my copy of NW shore dives. Now today would be a good day to do that dive according to Fritz's theory. Too bad that's about a four hour trip from where I'm sitting. but wait i could JUST make it, hmmm
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
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LCF
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by LCF »

Skyline can be a stunningly beautiful dive -- lots of color and life. When we've done it, we've done it on small but not flat exchanges . . . and we've done it with scooters :)
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
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fmerkel
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by fmerkel »

DDude-Wonderful trip report! GREAT picture and video. Love the juv. wolfie-very special and rare sighting. I've only seen 2 there. That's a gray phase of the Nanaimo Dorid (maroon tipped gill and rhinos) - Acanthodoris nanaimoensis.

I'm so sorry (yeah, sure) to be right but that looked like you had a good one and at least you were prepared for it.
Yes, today (5/22) theoretically is a good day-I'd splash at 12:15. Work your own program from there.

Had I done it I would have dropped when you did. That much was a good call (I think). Yes, that's the tree.
Yes, too 'nice' a ride out is not a good thing in my experience. A bit of a boost is a normal thing. In addition it seems to back eddy a bit at the drop zone so it can give you a false sense that the current has abated. There is also a back eddy in the cove area near the clubhouse so if you don't get out into the current you can end up fighting that.

Difficult to judge current from a small video like that but I think I'd have trouble crediting you with more than 2k. Try to relate it to a brisk walking pace. A fast determined walk maybe gets near 3k, after that you have to break into a jog unless you are race walking. I am way unhappy when the current exceeds 1k unless it's a deliberate drift. It gets hard to look at stuff and stay with a buddy.

Did you do the 'crawl of shame' up in the shallows to get back?
You diving doubles? That's a lONG bottom time.
I'd be pleased to have you join me some time.

Fritz
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Dusty2
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by Dusty2 »

Talk about me doing something foolish!

A solo dive in an unfamiliar current swept area AND going against the advice of the person most experienced at that site! I'd say that qualifies for a good swift kick you know where. :angry: :angry:
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dieseldude
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by dieseldude »

Dusty2 wrote:Talk about me doing something foolish!

A solo dive in an unfamiliar current swept area AND going against the advice of the person most experienced at that site! I'd say that qualifies for a good swift kick you know where. :angry: :angry:
Whats the matter pop? Apple falling to close to the tree :bootyshake:
I've seen your Dad come by & check to make sure you weren't diving solo :rofl:
I was on doubles with a stage, 2 reels, & smb. I came prepared for what I got other than the flip & it didnt take long to resolve.
fmerkel wrote:DDude-Wonderful trip report! GREAT picture and video. Love the juv. wolfie-very special and rare sighting. I've only seen 2 there. That's a gray phase of the Nanaimo Dorid (maroon tipped gill and rhinos) - Acanthodoris nanaimoensis.

I'm so sorry (yeah, sure) to be right but that looked like you had a good one and at least you were prepared for it.
Yes, today (5/22) theoretically is a good day-I'd splash at 12:15. Work your own program from there.

Had I done it I would have dropped when you did. That much was a good call (I think). Yes, that's the tree.
Yes, too 'nice' a ride out is not a good thing in my experience. A bit of a boost is a normal thing. In addition it seems to back eddy a bit at the drop zone so it can give you a false sense that the current has abated. There is also a back eddy in the cove area near the clubhouse so if you don't get out into the current you can end up fighting that.

Difficult to judge current from a small video like that but I think I'd have trouble crediting you with more than 2k. Try to relate it to a brisk walking pace. A fast determined walk maybe gets near 3k, after that you have to break into a jog unless you are race walking. I am way unhappy when the current exceeds 1k unless it's a deliberate drift. It gets hard to look at stuff and stay with a buddy.

Did you do the 'crawl of shame' up in the shallows to get back?
You diving doubles? That's a lONG bottom time.
I'd be pleased to have you join me some time.

Fritz
I did not have to crawl back to shore. I swam under up to the beach. There was an undertow at that point trying to keep me out. I gave up at 4ft & walked the last 100' in. I know the vid is hard to judge but I anchored to set my camera to video so the speed started from a dead stop. Also At one point I had a base hold on a giant barnacle & got spun 90 degress to parallel with the wall & then lifted my backside over my head. I felt like a flag. Then the barnacle came looose :crybaby: I felt real bad about that. The depth change was definitely an upwell.
LCF wrote: Skyline can be a stunningly beautiful dive -- lots of color and life. When we've done it, we've done it on small but not flat exchanges . . . and we've done it with scooters :)
A scooter is the only thing I would have done extra for this dive if i had one. Then again it may have been allot of extra task load.
" What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"
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supacooper
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by supacooper »

Dude....always listen to the ole wise one. :rawlings: If you have access to a Tides and Currents program, use Fidalgo Head-Burrows Island Between for currents, which is not listed on Plan your dive. Chalk that up to lessons learned.

Today is a good day and I'm headed out shortly. 1241 Slack, splashing 1230ish. Get some! :partydance:
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fmerkel
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by fmerkel »

I looked at Rosario Strait currents-today vs. yesterday. They both have the flood less than ebb for the Rosario indicator.
Yesterday: + 0.2F > 10:16 > - 1.3E
Today: + 0.4F > 1:14PM > -1.1E
There's probably some formula could be worked out for the Rodario indicator.
The 32" correction (NWSD)for slack seems to work OK.

Fritz
Last edited by fmerkel on Sat May 22, 2010 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dieseldude
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by dieseldude »

supacooper wrote:Dude....always listen to the ole wise one. :rawlings: If you have access to a Tides and Currents program, use Fidalgo Head-Burrows Island Between for currents, which is not listed on Plan your dive. Chalk that up to lessons learned.

Today is a good day and I'm headed out shortly. 1241 Slack, splashing 1230ish. Get some! :partydance:
Tell us how it went Coop! Need to know! I'm stuck at work
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by dsteding »

At least you didn't try to scooter from Washington Park to Skyline Marina on a small exchange day when the current never turns around . . . just sayin'.

Glad things turned out okay, Skyline is one of my favorite sites that I did back when I dived.
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by LCF »

Skyline is one of my favorite sites that I did back when I dived.
Such an incredibly sad statement :crybaby:
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by dsteding »

LCF wrote:
Skyline is one of my favorite sites that I did back when I dived.
Such an incredibly sad statement :crybaby:
Tongue in cheek, and also to defray the constant jabs for not diving. I still have my single tank stuff-we'll dive again at some point. Family is priority right now.
Fishstiq wrote:
To clarify.........

I cannot stress enough that this is MY PROBLEM.
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by supacooper »

dieseldude wrote: Tell us how it went Coop! Need to know! I'm stuck at work
Dude,
Same thing happened to me. Currents looked good on paper, but got caught up in some current. We splashed at 1215. According to Fidalgo Head Burrows Island between, on my trusty dusty I-phone Tide App, max flood was .6 knts at 0930 and slack was 1241. Looked to be about .2 at 1215, but it was WRONG! :angry: We were doing our surface swim out to the kelp bed, where we usually drop, and was riding a good current. We decided to drop and here we go. #-o Made it to 50 ft and decided to head back. At this point it felt more like climbing a rock wall then a dive. Talk about hand over hand. Air-check, depth-check, time for slack-NOT. The only good thing about hand over hand current diving is, you get a good appreciation for the small stuff. Not a photographer, so I'm more of a macro vice micro diver. Plenty of life and color I tell ya. Anyway, kept an eye on the time and thinking to myself, "I'm ready for the slack now", but it never came. Did my safety stop as I was wall climbing and found an area not much affected by the current, by the beach house I believe. So that few minutes was the only time I really let go of the wall. There was a total of 6 divers there, including my buddy and I and we all suffered from the current. Had to be at least 1.5 knts and don't think it ever turned either. Two other divers were about to splash about 1:30, so would like to hear there post dive brief, but didn't even introduce myself to get their names.

I wonder how the spring tides affect this site? Think I'll use that into my future dive planning and stick to neap tides only, the slack after the flood and when the ebb is greater than the flood as to get pushed in rather than out in the Rosario Strait.

Overall, not a great dive, beautiful day though. Even hit a garage sale on the way home. Not a GS hunter, but who can pass up a GS in Anacortes. Figured I'd score some nice things, but it looked like it was picked clean, so headed home for some food and a cold one!
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by fmerkel »

Well, damn! According to my theory Sat should have worked.
Back to the prediction board.

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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by Burntchef »

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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by whatevah »

supacooper wrote:
dieseldude wrote: Tell us how it went Coop! Need to know! I'm stuck at work
Dude,
Same thing happened to me. Currents looked good on paper
Nah - they looked really bad on paper. If the ebb is not a good strong one (at least 1 knot peak) you will not get a good decisive turn any time close to when you're expecting it. When you get to a dive site like this you need to read the water rather than trust the predictions from the tables. Get there early and watch the kelp bed you mentioned - when it pops up that's an indication that you should start watching more closely and get ready to make a final call on splash time. The waters circle around Burrows Island and seem to have momentum. When Rosario Strait is flooding the water pushes in around the south end of the island and washes out through Burrows Channel (where Skyline Wall is found). When Rosario Straight starts to ebb, the water flowing by the west end of Burrows Channel from North to South tends to suck the water out through Burrows Channel - making the flood continue longer than simple tables would predict. Eventually, if the ebb grows strong enough, the water starts to suck down out of Burrows Bay to the south, and _then_ you'll see the water in Burrows Channel moving from west to east (bringing you back to the beach). Clear as mud, right?
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by fmerkel »

I'm in agreement with your fluid movement theory on how the reversal actually happens. It needs enough volume to actually happen.
What I don't get is your call on needing a 1k ebb, but of course current is tied to volume. I looked at my successful dives and the majority of them actually have a pretty puny (less than 1K) ebb. In the successful ones the flood is greater than the ebb-BUT this is using my [Tides and Currents] program. Rosario does not give the same data and I'm not used to looking at that.
Are you using Rosario Current as an indicator? Any input on tidal exchange? I'm going to start looking at that variable too.
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by whatevah »

fmerkel wrote:What I don't get is your call on needing a 1k ebb, but of course current is tied to volume. I looked at my successful dives and the majority of them actually have a pretty puny (less than 1K) ebb. In the successful ones the flood is greater than the ebb-BUT this is using my [Tides and Currents] program. Rosario does not give the same data and I'm not used to looking at that.
Are you using Rosario Current as an indicator? Any input on tidal exchange? I'm going to start looking at that variable too.
Fritz - the 1kt number is based purely on experience. Bob and Kelley at Anacortes Diving & Supply use essentially the same planning method I do. I often use the same software you do, with the same current station - but that current station is not available in many other programs that people might be using. So I did (earlier in the other thread) try to tie the Rosario Strait tables in to my theories by relating the size and timing of the ebb in Rosario Strait to ebbs in Burrows Channel that peak greater than 1kt. I am sure it can be done on days when the ebb doesn't reach 1kt - especially if the preceding flood is also small. But I think in those cases the timing would be less likely to coincide with predicted slack and you'd be more dependent on making a good judgement call on splash time - perhaps you'd need some luck too.

FWIW, when I dive the northeast tip of Burrows Island (ie, across the other side of the channel, where the full brunt of the flow accelerates around the corner of the island), I use the same current station (between Fidalgo Head and Burrows Island). I try to only do that spot when it really is flat for some time - it can be done on a bigger exchange but it's one of those places you just have to sit in the boat, watch the water and wait.
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by fmerkel »

Guess I got a luck streak going then. I tend to splash about 30" before predicted figuring on a 10" swim so sink about 15" before slack. Generally get a 30" ride and then switch. If the current is strong on diving I'm pretty sure it's going to be 'one of those days'.

I did a bit of retrospective on a few dives and looked at the tide exchanges but did not come up with a definitive pattern. Sometime I'll see if I can get a relationship out of Rosario that makes sense for me.
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supacooper
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by supacooper »

So the Skyline experiment continues........
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Re: The Skyline Experiment

Post by gcbryan »

I tend to get in :30 later than most others and I've had pretty good luck. I don't use the :30 NW Shoredives Book correction...I consider slack before ebb at Rosario to be slack for Skyline Wall.

I never hear of anyone experiencing an early slack at Skyline. Think about any less than optimal days you've had there and consider if you wouldn't have been better of getting in :30 later. I also plan on dropping down at what I consider slack rather than :15 to :30 minutes before that so in some cases I'm getting in :45 minutes or so after the traditional advice.

I only do the dive on low exchanges however.

(I do agree with Fritz and his assessment of what the current speed was likely to be in the OP. I also don't like to see currents more than 1kt around the limits on when I'll be in the water.

Regarding 4kt...that's Agate Pass current. You won't be taking those (very nice!) pictures in 4 kts!
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