3/31 Dive Whor'in NWDC style at the Muk

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:01 am

[sarcasm]anyone wanna repeat the part about the lights a third time?[/sarcasm]

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:13 am

[sarcasm]Yeah dont flash your lights at the hotel and stuff[/sarcasm]

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:15 am

you already had your one, let someone else have a chance.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:38 am

Jeff Pack wrote:you already had your one, let someone else have a chance.

I was trying to get the high score.....

<wanders off with the fresh "carpet ripped out from underneath" feeling

John Rawlings · Post by **John Rawlings** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:46 am

Jeff Pack wrote:you already had your one, let someone else have a chance.

All right, then I'll say it. I've been diving at that site since before some of you were even born. I darn sure don't want to lose access to it because someone feels the need to light up the exterior walls of the hotel with their frickin' dive light.

Be quiet....be polite....and use your lights for diving, not flashing people's hotel room windows. If you're diving at the Silver Cloud Hotel beach site at night it's better for everyone if the hotel guests and staff don't even realize that you're there.

- John

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:57 am

I will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotel

Is the pile on finished? I got the message the first time, and even my poor reading comprehension skills got that one on the first try

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:04 pm

Jeff Pack wrote:I will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI .......

Is the pile on finished? I got the message the first time, and even my poor reading comprehension skills got that one on the first try

Perhaps it's your rather flippant attitude that has people piling on....

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:05 pm

Jeff Pack wrote: .. I may not have as many recent dives as you guys, I'm no newcomer to deco obligations either, nor how to get out of them.
Was just a reminder to me that I'm not checking that on my computer, and that trusting it in my head as I did might not be the best plan going forward, given I've been out of things for awhile.

Jeff, just another perspective on this and also not trying to tell a fellow diver how to dive. So, use it, dont use it.

When one day you go through a Tec class and learn how to plan and execute dives that you knowingly go into deco, these are some of the things to keep in mind:

- Do you know the deco plan, so if your computer fails at the deepest portion, you can complete the deco without it.
- Do you have enough gas to do the deco that you are planning to do.
- Do you have enough gas to let you AND your buddy complete deco if he/she runs into a gas problem
- Does your buddy have enough gas for BOTH of you to do the deco incase you run into a gas problem.
- Did you plan your gas requirements for a stressed situation, meaning both of you will be breathing very rapidly..
- If you plan to do the deco on back-gas, do you have enough gas en enough redundancy to get out of a stressed situation and complete the deco.
- And lastly, but more importantly, did your buddy sign up to unknowingly follow you into a deco dive?? Is he/she OK with the responsibility and associated consequences?

these are only a few things I would encourage you to think about when approaching decompression diving with such a nonchalant attitude.

I know people who are now either handicapped or dead because of improper respect for decompression diving.

again, just some unsolicited advice and no disrespect intended.

Koos

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:05 pm

HOTEL

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:08 pm

Nwbrewer wrote:
Jeff Pack wrote:I will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI will not flash my light at the hotelI .......

Is the pile on finished? I got the message the first time, and even my poor reading comprehension skills got that one on the first try
Perhaps it's your rather flippant attitude that has people piling on....

One time was fine, message received, 3 isnt. Its more like pissed off attitude.

eliseaboo · Post by **eliseaboo** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:28 pm

Ok, this is ridiculous. No one asked my opinion, but what the hell, as a woman I'm entitled to these things once and a while.

You've been around this board long enough. You know the personalities on this board. You've apparently even been around long enough to find three people you won't dive with and feel the need to plaster on every post.

That post was intended to stir things up. You knew the response you would get, and wanted to comment back with the "it's all good, stop picking on me" attitude. If this is an attempt to prove the "no one can post mistakes without being picked on" theory, you're doing it wrong. By now you should be well aware of the "hot topics" on this board.

If this puts me at #4 on the JP No Dive list, then so be it...but for pete sake cut the

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:36 pm

so let me get this straight, I make one comment in the very first post about the light, and 4 days later everyone wants to jump on it, eh?

And after being told not once, not twice, but 3 times, thats ok too?

And I'm stirring the pot? sheesh.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:48 pm

Sorry for the late "dont shine your light on the hotel" post, but as some can attest, I do not read posts more then 1-2 paragraphs long. I didnt decide to read the post until you posted about the surprise deco dive.
I imagine if you would have acknowledged the first request to not shine lights on the hotel it would have not been mentioned again. After the SECOND sugestion to no throw light on the hotel, if you would have acknowledged it instead of being sarcastic you probably would have not gotten another one from John...

I just figured all this out on my calculator...I'm pretty sure this is accurate

I choose to only be part of that part of the conversation...the deco and tech diving is all you guys...carry on

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:48 pm

Jeff Pack wrote:so let me get this straight, I make one comment in the very first post about the light, and 4 days later everyone wants to jump on it, eh?

And after being told not once, not twice, but 3 times, thats ok too?

And I'm stirring the pot? sheesh.

Jeff, here's an analogy for you:

You drop a big turd in the middle of the room and then get annoyed at people who step in it and track it around on the carpet.

If you post things on a public forum that others find questionable, you are going to get responses you may not agree with. You should know this by now, yet you continue to get huffy when people comment on your posts.

Also, more than one person will express the same opinion, which often serves new readers as a gauge as to how many other divers feel the same about the subject at hand. Everyone's entitled to post their opinion, even if it echoes what others have already stated.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:52 pm

Jeff Pack wrote:so let me get this straight, I make one comment in the very first post about the light, and 4 days later everyone wants to jump on it, eh?

And after being told not once, not twice, but 3 times, thats ok too?

And I'm stirring the pot? sheesh.

Chill out. Seriously. Eliseaboo is right on, or close enough. Personally, I don't care how you dive. At all. Go for it. You've obviously been around the block. The only people I feel need to be made aware of diving risks are newbies who don't know what the risks are.

That said, your attitude here is, I must say, somewhat confrontational. It does appear that you were looking for a fight, and I'm tired of online fights on this site. You really have no idea how sick of them I am. Please find a different way of getting your point across, assuming you have one.

Seems like you got the point about flashing the hotel, so I won't go into that.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:54 pm

Norris wrote:....the deco and tech diving is all you guys...carry on

just re-read the whole thread. What "tech diving" are you referring to? Picking up a few minutes of deco at Muk is NOT tech diving, even if you are wearing doubles, a stage bottle, long hose, and a can light.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:00 pm

Joshua Smith wrote:
Norris wrote:....the deco and tech diving is all you guys...carry on
just re-read the whole thread. What "tech diving" are you referring to? Picking up a few minutes of deco at Muk is NOT tech diving, even if you are wearing doubles, a stage bottle, long hose, and a can light.

I was merely speaking of the tech post writen by kdupreez. I didn't say that this was a "tech" dive and certainly don't claim to be a "tech" diver so I gladly side stepped out of that part of the conversation.

did I accidently poke you??

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:17 pm

Norris wrote:
Joshua Smith wrote:
Norris wrote:....the deco and tech diving is all you guys...carry on
just re-read the whole thread. What "tech diving" are you referring to? Picking up a few minutes of deco at Muk is NOT tech diving, even if you are wearing doubles, a stage bottle, long hose, and a can light.
I was merely speaking of the tech post writen by kdupreez. I didn't say that this was a "tech" dive and certainly don't claim to be a "tech" diver so I gladly side stepped out of that part of the conversation.

did I accidently poke you??

No, you didnt! I stand corrected. That WAS a post about tech diving. My bad.

Paulicarp · Post by **Paulicarp** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:20 pm

kdupreez wrote:
When one day you go through a Tec class and learn how to plan and execute dives that you knowingly go into deco, these are some of the things to keep in mind:

- Do you know the deco plan, so if your computer fails at the deepest portion, you can complete the deco without it.
- Do you have enough gas to do the deco that you are planning to do.
- Do you have enough gas to let you AND your buddy complete deco if he/she runs into a gas problem
- Does your buddy have enough gas for BOTH of you to do the deco incase you run into a gas problem.
- Did you plan your gas requirements for a stressed situation, meaning both of you will be breathing very rapidly..
- If you plan to do the deco on back-gas, do you have enough gas en enough redundancy to get out of a stressed situation and complete the deco.
- And lastly, but more importantly, did your buddy sign up to unknowingly follow you into a deco dive?? Is he/she OK with the responsibility and associated consequences?

these are only a few things I would encourage you to think about when approaching decompression diving with such a nonchalant attitude.

I know people who are now either handicapped or dead because of improper respect for decompression diving.

again, just some unsolicited advice and no disrespect intended.

Koos

+1 with just a small caveat- this isn't just for tech divers, it's just good basic diving stuff. Very good thoughts Koos!

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:57 pm

thx Koos, no offense taken, i wasn't intending to be non chalant about it, just that its not my first dance with Deco either, so in the scheme of Deco stuff I've done in the past, this was barely even one, and honestly barely even counted as one and our dive profile took us out of it without even a deco stop.

In fact, Matts comp didnt even register Deco, thus yea, maybe I was abit nonchallant then in retrospect. It was so minor, if even at all a deco obligation.

It was moreso intended as a reminder to me to check the deco obligation better on my computer, rather than in my head, and be prepared with a plan if I hit deco next time(and actually notice it). I regularly check my depth, and air pressure, but not my deco. Bad habit from the old days of calc'ing deco in my head.

again, thx.

Paulicarp · Post by **Paulicarp** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:17 pm

Jeff Pack wrote: Bad habit from the old days of calc'ing deco in my head.

In my opinion, calc'ing deco in your head would have been a better way to do it. That's how I prefer to dive, and I don't see it as a bad habit at all. And I'm not a tec diver.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:40 pm

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:47 pm

For the last 10-ish years, I've been operating under the assumption that every dive is a deco dive. Just a matter of your profile and where you put the stops.

nwbobber · Post by **nwbobber** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:54 am

Yeah Jeff, the way I see it you would not get "piled on" if early on you posted a reply acknowledging "message received". The folks posting in this thread have not been ones to butt heads with folks in the past. My concern, and Joshua pointed it out already, so sorry, but here it is, is that very new divers, who have none of your background, read all this stuff, trying to learn what they can when they can't actually dive. So I would ask you to have those folks in your radar when you post.

BDub · Post by **BDub** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:07 am

nwbobber wrote:Yeah Jeff, the way I see it you would not get "piled on" if early on you posted a reply acknowledging "message received". The folks posting in this thread have not been ones to butt heads with folks in the past. My concern, and Joshua pointed it out already, so sorry, but here it is, is that very new divers, who have none of your background, read all this stuff, trying to learn what they can when they can't actually dive. So I would ask you to have those folks in your radar when you post.

Well said, Bob.

Regardless of what "camp" you're in (I subscribe to the same belief as Ray),everything changes when you go into deco.

A few minutes of backgas deco is certainly not a tech dive, but it does add complexities a newer diver may not have thought about.

Rock bottom, team diving procedures, etc aside...the standard OOG air share, with a direct ascent to the surface, or the "blow and go" CESA (Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent) that are both taught in Open Water as options for out of air emergencies are based upon the divers being within NDLs. Meaning, as long as you're within NDLs you *should* be able to make a direct ascent to the surface at 30fpm, with no stops, and be "ok" (not bent).

However, if you've gone over NDLs, those options have now become blurred, because you now have time you have to pay back, underwater (deco), for overstaying your welcome (going over NDL). To pay back that time underwater, you have to have the gas to do so, not to mention the gas for both divers to do so if they are sharing gas, which is an entirely different conversation.

This isn't directed at you, Jeff. I'm simply throwing this out there for those who may be reading this, and hadn't thought of this.

Northwest Dive Club