Skyline May 3rd

[Tubesnout23]

Skyline is a beautiful wall dive with boulders and rocks. It is an invertebrates’ paradise! (For the first time I saw entire rocks covered with black sea cucumbers ).

I dived this site before twice where there was hardly any current last November. This time the current scenario turned out to be quite different. My buddy and I spent some time consulting two different currents and tides predictions (we followed the one that I have attached here).

We hoped to catch an flood current that would had take us out to the wall (westward) and an ebb current (eastward) that would have take us back to the beach. We surface swam to what my buddy thought was the site of the wall but the current was still ripping (the chart showed a current of less than 1kt but I think it was faster than that).

I began to feel a bit uneasy and we decided to hang on onto some rocks on shore and wait for a little while to see if the current was going to slow down. It did not. I had mixed feeling about what to do so I asked my buddy if he was comfortable enough to descend. ("If he is OK I will be OK I thought).He felt good enough to go down and off we went while I was trying to keep at bay a slight sense of anxiety.

I dived in fairly strong currents before at Keystone and Admiralty Beach and I never felt intimidated by them. I think it is something to do with the fact that I have been diving those sites on a regular basis and I have got to know the behavior of the currents. The current at Skyline was still unknown to me. At Skyline there is not a beach where you can let yourself go and drift and then walk back to your starting point. Instead there is a short rocky shore that turns eastward and a big channel in front of it. God knows where the current would have taken us past that point! We were not planning to do a drift dive (we did not have a boat that would have picked us up whenever the current would have tossed us).

Our planned max. depth was 80ft. My buddy and I calculated the Rock Bottom based on my RMV (Respiratory Minute Volume) of 1.5 and his of 0.9. I did the calculation by hand with a calculator, while my buddy used the computer. We ended up with two different figures. Mine was the most conservative. My buddy also figured out a dive plan with the computer (something that I am still struggling to fully understand how he did it). I figured out our turning pressure by subtracting the Rock Bottom to the overall gas available in my tank, diveded up in half the gas left and added that number to the RB. My buddy came out with a lower number than mine. After discussing our results we settled down and decided to turn around when the first of us would have reached 2,000PSI (which at the end it coincided with the rule of thirds pressure).

We did reach our planned depth of 80ft while holding onto rocks. At that depth I was still OK even if I wished that the current would have stopped or slowed down to let us cruise the place without any worries to admire the amazing marine life. Instead it stubbornly kept pushing us westward and it never turned back.

I signaled my buddy to go up in shallower water cutting the current diagonally and scrambling on the rocks. I was getting tired to fight the current and stressed out. At a depth of about 40 ft I don't know what happened. I guess my anxiety and stress level went up dramatically and I found myself breathing heavily and shallower. I failed to signal my buddy that I was not feeling OK and my buddy did not realize that something was wrong. I then grabbed my buddy's arm. My mind began to "scream" that I wanted to get the hell out of there. The water that I loved so much turned into a devil that I did not want to deal with.
Eventually I reached a state of almost panic. I lost control of my buoyancy and I began to ascend. My buddy grabbed my fins and legs while I was dumping air out from my wing. I came back down and finally (Hallelujah!) I realized that I had to STOP, HOLD ONTO A ROCK, THINK AND BRING MY BREATHING UNDER CONTROL! I checked my SPG and seeing that I had plenty of air reassured me and gradually I relaxed and gained my self-control again. M A N! WHAT A TRIP!

We gradually scrambled up-slope among the bed and bull kelp, stopped for our safety stop and kept going until we surfaced near the shore not too close to the kelp and away from the boat traffic lane. I had about 750PSI left (my buddy 900) so we decided to swim back to the beach underwater as long as our air supply would allow us.

The moral of this long story is:

1) Current and Tide predictions are just PREDICTIONS. We, as a buddy team, need to learn how to discuss the contingency plan more efficiently and clearly to avoid confusion and misunderstanding later. We have to keep trying to improve our way to communicate. (After the dive was over my buddy told me at some point that he did not want to fight the current , but drift and I remarked that we had never discussed to do a drift dive. I wanted to swim diagonally towards the beach, which I guess it did mean that we had to fight the current to a certain extent!)

2) We have to improve the way we communicate underwater. My buddy has a slate and he hardly uses it! I guess when there is current it is probably not so easy to write on a slate. You are more concerned to use your hands to hold onto something ! I have to learn to communicate to my buddy that something is wrong as soon as a sense of anxiety sets in. If I wait too long it may be too late. I got freaken lucky! On one hand I should not make the assumption that my buddy is my "Guardian Angel" and would always be there to rescue me (in other words I need to learn how to look after myself better). On the other hand where the buddy's responsibility to be aware of the conditions of the other diver begins?

3) On land before the dive it is extremely easy to remember those famous three words that I have learned in the OW class: STOP, THINK and BREATH. Well this time I discovered that underwater it is a different ball game altogether. Those words don't pop up so easily as they should even after having nearly 100 dives! It seems that the brain goes slower down there and it takes more effort to remember things. Maybe every time before descending I should chant those magic words to engrave them into my brain! (If I remember! )

4) In the past whenever I felt uncomfortable and anxious I would convince my buddy to change the dive plan. Well this time I tried to shut off those feelings and stick to the plan no matter what. I don't know exactly why. It was a mistake but at the same time without that self-induced push I would have never experienced what I have read in blogs and magazines until that point= UNDERWATER PANIC . Did I turn myself into a guinea-pig? Maybe, I don't think it was a conscious decision, though. My buddy's cool and self-control during this dive somehow, despite his slow response to my stress, helped me to manage this semi-panic state that flooded my brain in a flash without tragic consequences. However my buddy and I have no desire to put ourselves in that situation again. So to be able to dive a sensitive site like Skyline we have to keep looking at predictions and modify our plan according to what we have learned during this dive. We also have to learn to let things go(=abort the dive) if the real conditions are dangerously off from those predictions.

[smike]

Thanks for posting this. I know that posting problems is not the easiest -
I benefited from your post. Again, Thanks.

[dsteding]

Sounds like good lessons learned.

Skyline on those small exchanges is tricky--I too have an experience there where the current never switched, just going in the same direction all day (we were scootering from Washington Park to Skyline--ended up in the water for a couple hours).

Your anxiety sounds EXACTLY like CO2 buildup, which makes sense given the heavy work and shallow breathing. Ultimately, you'll be glad you've experienced it--you'll recognize it if you do in the future and probably cut things off before they get too far down that road. CO2 and the anxiety it causes has to be one of the worst feelings in diving.

[fmerkel]

Some other folks may weigh in on this. I've got about a dozen dives at Skyline. At first I followed the directions in the NW Shore book and info from Anacortes dive and was pretty successful. Then I started working on smaller exchanges. Less exchange > less current, right?
Wrong at Skyline. When it gets down to a certain level it doesn't reverse. That was an exchange that was not going to reverse for you.
A good thing to know is there is almost no current up near the rocks in the shallows. You can easily hand-over-hand back in a few feet of water. You have to get there first but there are lots of sturdy holds there.

Glad you handled it OK. You learn a lot from experiences like that.

RE: CO2 buildup.
I'm pretty sure not in this case, likely the reverse, low CO2 level from anxiety/panic and hyperventilating.
[I guess my anxiety and stress level went up dramatically and I found myself breathing heavily and shallower.]
That's classic hyperventilation respiration.

On a subjective level they feel pretty much the same, especially when you are not in the mood to be introspective about it. Most folks in a panic are not.
It's more common than divers think because they are always ready to jump on the CO2 buildup wagon.

[gcbryan]

Did you get in around 11:30 am? You didn't mention your entry time. I would have gotten in around 11:30 am.

Regarding current, I try not to fight it (to the extent possible). Hold on to a rock to relax and either stay close to the rock if this reduces the current or get on the surface and swim back in.

Once you get to the kelp area on the way back in the currents drops way off as well.

[Dusty2]

Scary to say the least. Not something you want to repeat for sure. First rule is listen to that little voice in your head. If it is saying maybe this isn't a good idea thumb the dive. In this instance your first mistake was that you both were new at the site and not sure of what to expect and though there were misgivings on both your parts you didn't share them. My feelings are that you should never do a dive in a dangerous open water area like that without a buddy along that is familiar with the dive or at least make a trip to the LDS and get their input about your plan. That is a high risk site known to be unpredictable with very few bailout options.

It ended OK and you can now look back and say wow that was close so it was a lesson well learned and not soon forgotten.

Good job on getting through it and putting it on the board to remind us all that not matter how many dives we have made we should never take anything for granted.

[dsteding]

RE: CO2 buildup.
I'm pretty sure not in this case, likely the reverse, low CO2 level from anxiety/panic and hyperventilating.
[I guess my anxiety and stress level went up dramatically and I found myself breathing heavily and shallower.]
That's classic hyperventilation respiration.

On a subjective level they feel pretty much the same, especially when you are not in the mood to be introspective about it. Most folks in a panic are not.
It's more common than divers think because they are always ready to jump on the CO2 buildup wagon.

Interesting point. Only reason I thought CO2 buildup is because she mentions being tired from fighting the current right before that--I'd imagine hypocapnia would be difficult to cause under that much exertion. Also, I thought hypocapnia was more of a tingling, visual disturbance thing instead of the anxiety of hypercapnia.

The physical exertion thing, followed by hyperventilation, sounded hypercapnia to me, but what do I know. I'm not that kind of doctor.

Lynne?

[sambolino44]

I'm the buddy on this dive. Too much to say about it right now, but I just want everybody to know that I'm really proud of how Tubesnout23 was able to recover from a near-panic situation. Yes, we both made mistakes going in; we didn't study the site well enough to know that a low exchange was not good, she didn't communicate her anxiety to me at the beginning, and I was impatient to go ahead and begin the dive. But what made the difference between a good story and a tragedy was that, after she "lost her cool", and then lost her buoyancy control, when I pulled her down, I have a very clear memory of her calming herself and re-gaining control of herself. I could see it in her eyes, and in her breathing; she was saying to herself, "Slow down! Breathe slowly! Calm down!" Exactly what you're supposed to do in a situation like that, and it worked! We never got into an uncontrolled ascent, and we were able to continue the dive at a shallower depth and enjoy it.

I believe that you never progress if you don't push your limits, but you don't want to push too far and get hurt. I've been closer to the edge than this a few times, but this was close enough for me.

All I can say is, I can't imagine a better buddy that mine! Since we've started diving together my diving has improved at a fantastic pace. Not only do we dive a lot, but we spend way more time than any other buddies I've had concentrating on improving our planning, our safety, and our skills.

Salute!

[fmerkel]

Interesting point. Only reason I thought CO2 buildup is because he mentions being tired from fighting the current right before that--I'd imagine hypocapnia would be difficult to cause under that much exertion. Also, I thought hypocapnia was more of a tingling, visual disturbance thing instead of the anxiety of hypercapnia.

The physical exertion thing, followed by hyperventilation, sounded hypercapnia to me, but what do I know. I'm not that kind of doctor.
Lynne?

The clues are being at 40' (not much of an air density issue), high level of anxiety over the dive, exertion, and the hard breathing associate with the exertion. This will blow off the CO2 to the extent that the odd feelings start to add to the anxiety and you get in a vicious cycle. I've seen people brought to the ER with nothing more going on than hyperventilation, usually started in an anxious situation coupled with exercise. A calm person creating the 2 different sensations will distinguish them. An anxious diver in a dicey situation likely will not. It it just one more complication in a crush of bad news and sensory overload. In a way it doesn't matter which it is. The cure is to calm down and do slow deep breathing.

I've noted numerous reports of this type over the years. It's almost always associated with anxiety, newer diver, heavy exertion, and relatively shallow depths. The dive community is set to call anything that looks like a breathing issue CO2 buildup. The body REALLY doesn't like it and works hard to make sure it doesn't happen. Try walking some stairs while breathing through a soda straw. See how long you last with that CO2 buildup. I personally think it's less common than is thought. Difficult environment to prove one way or the other though.

FWIW, I'm a Respiratory Therapist. I've made a bit of a career working with breathing pathology in one way or another. Believe me, it was VERY peculiar to take up diving. In a way I knew way too much.

[H20doctor]

I've had the same Issues with anxiety.. I even had it on saturday just before the watmough Point dive.. I still get it depending on the depth, place , and Vis... What's important is ..I work it out..I stop..take 3 slow deep breaths ..and talk myself out of it..
Were all diff..Good job on working it out, and processing through it.. The more you exp. The better you be .

[dsteding]

The clues are being at 40' (not much of an air density issue), high level of anxiety over the dive, exertion, and the hard breathing associate with the exertion. This will blow off the CO2 to the extent that the odd feelings start to add to the anxiety and you get in a vicious cycle. I've seen people brought to the ER with nothing more going on than hypocapnea, usually started in an anxious situation coupled with exercise. A calm person creating the 2 different sensations will distinguish them. An anxious diver in a dicey situation likely will not. It it just one more complication in a crush of bad news and sensory overload. In a way it doesn't matter which it is. The cure is to calm down and do slow deep breathing.

I've noted numerous reports of this type over the years. It's almost always associated with anxiety, newer diver, heavy exertion, and relatively shallow depths. The dive community is set to call anything that looks like a breathing issue CO2 buildup. The body REALLY doesn't like it and works hard to make sure it doesn't happen. Try walking some stairs while breathing through a soda straw. See how long you last with that CO2 buildup. I personally think it's less common than is thought. Difficult environment to prove one way or the other though.

FWIW, I'm a Respiratory Therapist. I've made a bit of a career working with breathing pathology in one way or another. Believe me, it was VERY peculiar to take up diving. In a way I knew way too much.

Very cool, thanks. The reason I ask is that my wife, in one of her early dives, experienced something along those lines. She's really good at "slow down and breathe" now, and it isn't an issue--but I know from watching her that it leaves a lasting impression on people.

Tubesnout, Sambolino, for what it is worth, I think this is precisely the type of stuff that makes people well-rounded divers. As I said before we've all blown a dive plan, it is how you react to that in the water that matters, that is where the experience can be built up (note I'm not advocating blowing dive plans just for the sake of experience). Glad to see people out having a good time beyond Cove 2.

[Tubesnout23]

Thanks for posting this. I know that posting problems is not the easiest -
I benefited from your post. Again, Thanks.

You are welcome. I am glad that you have found the post useful.

Happy save diving!

[Dusty2]

I think we all gain from these posts and the discussions that follow. Thanks for sharing and thanks to all those who chimed in with the wealth of information for my little brain to store and hopefully recall if ever needed.

[Tubesnout23]

Interesting point. Only reason I thought CO2 buildup is because he mentions being tired from fighting the current right before that--I'd imagine hypocapnia would be difficult to cause under that much exertion. Also, I thought hypocapnia was more of a tingling, visual disturbance thing instead of the anxiety of hypercapnia.

The physical exertion thing, followed by hyperventilation, sounded hypercapnia to me, but what do I know. I'm not that kind of doctor.
Lynne?

The clues are being at 40' (not much of an air density issue), high level of anxiety over the dive, exertion, and the hard breathing associate with the exertion. This will blow off the CO2 to the extent that the odd feelings start to add to the anxiety and you get in a vicious cycle. I've seen people brought to the ER with nothing more going on than hypocapnea, usually started in an anxious situation coupled with exercise. A calm person creating the 2 different sensations will distinguish them. An anxious diver in a dicey situation likely will not. It it just one more complication in a crush of bad news and sensory overload. In a way it doesn't matter which it is. The cure is to calm down and do slow deep breathing.

I've noted numerous reports of this type over the years. It's almost always associated with anxiety, newer diver, heavy exertion, and relatively shallow depths. The dive community is set to call anything that looks like a breathing issue CO2 buildup. The body REALLY doesn't like it and works hard to make sure it doesn't happen. Try walking some stairs while breathing through a soda straw. See how long you last with that CO2 buildup. I personally think it's less common than is thought. Difficult environment to prove one way or the other though.

FWIW, I'm a Respiratory Therapist. I've made a bit of a career working with breathing pathology in one way or another. Believe me, it was VERY peculiar to take up diving. In a way I knew way too much.

I don't think I have ever heard of hypocapnia before. In the scuba classes that I have taken so far instructors and books talk about to watch out for the building up of too much CO2 and Nitrogen. I did not think that not having enough CO2 could cause problems too.

One thing is sure: when I was down there I did not think about CO2 or any other gases at all! It is really hard to describe it in details because it happened so quickly and as soon as the dive was over the memory of the incident began to blur. I have never taken recreational drugs. In a way it was a bit like having a bad trip on LSD (based on from what I read and heard about it).
I don't exactly what took me back to reason. My buddy did not signal me to hang on a rock and slow down my breathing. He was probably trying to figure out what was going on. Perhaps it was a combination of these following factors: an instict of self-preservation began to whisper into my ears, I seeked and got physical contact with my buddy (I think this was before I became positive buoyant) and after I came back down to the bottom again my buddy stayed right next to me. (Before he was about 4/5 feet away from me, the visibility was pretty good so I could still see him but seeing him was not enough to reassure me. In fact I thought that he was miles away from me!)

In a situation like that and with my little experience having a buddy that has worked with me as a part of a team as best as he could rather than being a 'same-ocean' buddy has made a hell of a difference!

Thanks for the info.

[Tubesnout23]

Did you get in around 11:30 am? You didn't mention your entry time. I would have gotten in around 11:30 am.

Regarding current, I try not to fight it (to the extent possible). Hold on to a rock to relax and either stay close to the rock if this reduces the current or get on the surface and swim back in.

Once you get to the kelp area on the way back in the currents drops way off as well.

We submerged at 11:16am. I don't think it would have made much of a difference to wait until 11:30am. It was not the right time of the day. During the OW class I was told that I am not supposed to fight the current but swim either at a 90 degrees angle or smaller. However in order to ‘cut’ through' that current even at an angle you have to 'fight' it somewhat in my opinion.

One thing that I forgot to do was to dump more air out from my wing when I was scrambling along the bottom. In a place like Skyline I would rather follow the bottom rock by rock than do a direct ascend and surface god knows where (if I have understood you correctly).

I have dived this site twice before. It was last November and there was an even smaller exchange to the point that that slack lasted several hours! We were able to two dives and one of them became a night dive. (I wonder if that is a phenomenon that happens only once in a blue moon!)

My buddy dived Skyline about 5 times before. So he had a bit more experience than me. Our little knowledge and the predictions fooled us. But then we had the opportunity to abort the dive or change dramatically the dive plan but we decided to take the plunge instead! It certainly turned out to be a kind of 'initiation' dive for me!

Cheers

[fmerkel]

I don't think I have ever heard of hypocapnia before. In the scuba classes that I have taken so far instructors and books talk about to watch out for the building up of too much CO2 and Nitrogen. I did not think that not having enough CO2 could cause problems too.

One thing is sure: when I was down there I did not think about CO2 or any other gases at all! It is really hard to describe it in details because it happened so quickly and as soon as the dive was over the memory of the incident began to blur. I have never taken recreational drugs. In a way it was a bit like having a bad trip on LSD (based on from what I read and heard about it).

I'd call it a professional petty annoyance but I think it is neither petty and it is far more than an annoyance for people it happens to.
In days of old regulators were kind of lame and breathing could be difficult. People were 'tough', often smoked, were more used to their lungs and respiratory chemistry being screwed up, and a lot of the info that is still haunting us is based on that. Due to the difficulty of actually monitoring the respiratory physiology the info is still with us.

Do I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not CO2 buildup? No. But I'd stake my professional reputation on situations like this that is it exactly the opposite.

Sit and hold your breath for a minute. Most folks will find this hard if they don't practice. Even 30 seconds can be uncomfortable. That's a tiny amount of hypoventilation.
Now, hyperventilate vigorously. The more you do it, the worse it gets. Stop when you feel weird enough. Don't go crazy and push this too far-in some ways it's worse than hypoventilation.
BTW-functionally neither of these will affect O2 levels to any reasonable level at all. You have to hold your breath for about 3 minutes before your O2 level starts to drop and with partial pressure increases at depth and Nitrox use this is almost impossible to create on a recreational dive. (Rebreathers and trimix gases are a totally separate issue)

A normal response to anxiety is increased respiration. Of course exertion does the same thing. Add the 2 together and you set the stage for hyperventilation. A side note is adding pseudofed or high doses of coffee or other stimulants to the mix increases the likelihood of hyperventilation. Personally I think the biggest issue with pseudofed use is the increased incidence of anxiety with diving. I've seen this numerous times including my wife.

The body REALLY REALLY does not like hypoventilation. It'll do about anything to avoid it. People that think they are skip breathing and building up CO2 likely are not. Hypercarbia is a medical definition based on measuring CO2 (and blood acid/base/pH levels) with a blood draw but how you going to know without a blood test?. Somebody merely claiming they had CO2 buildup on a dive is mostly impossible to prove or refute.

[Note-People that are having respiratory failure as defined by acute increases in CO2 and a drop in blood pH are the ones that get a plastic tube down their throat and attached to ventilators. A regulator is NOTHING like a ventilator. If you have CHRONIC CO2 buildup and a NORMAL (adjusted) pH you likely smoked too long and have COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, aka emphysema)]

If you practice you can get your respiratory rate down to a stable 4 breaths/minute. This is not even terribly hard. There will be no effective CO2 buildup beyond normal. At depth with increased air density slow deep breathing becomes more effective for good gas exchange. My RR seems to just automatically decrease as i get deeper. It just works better.

When you are having a full blown anxiety attack while diving one of the last things you think about is your breathing. OTOH, slow deep breathing is the same as relaxed respiration and if you force yourself into that breathing pattern you automatically will start relaxing. Relaxation exercises all start with breathing-slow deep breathing. The key is to stay on top of it before it goes critical. I've dove with folks that have anxiety attacks while underwater. Unfortunately this leads to further anxiety about diving, setting the stage for problems. On dives like that we submerge at chest deep level and do not venture deeper than 10 feet unless the person is ready, indicates that to me, and I believe it by giving them a good look. By agreement either can call the dive immediately for any reason at any time without the need for discussion. This takes a lot of the burden off the dive, which alone is hugely helpful.

I agree with the other folks on how this was handled overall. In a tough situation you did well. Glad you had a good buddy that hung in there (and hung on) with you. You both learned and this will help in the future. Skyline used to make me anxious but after a couple not so hot dives there I know I can just work my way to shore and crawl back. A bit of a hassle but certainly not life threatening. Once that burden is gone it's much easier to not even have to work to stay calm.

My first 'bad' dive there I was taking a new buddy with me and an unknown in terms of dive skill, though she had several hundred dives. I did a really thorough briefing. At the wall the current was sailing and after 5" of no abatement I started to have serious concerns. My main concern was my buddy but she looked at ease and content so I called it when I reached my comfort limit-the limits I was willing to walk back on shore (I've walked that path). After the dive she said the briefing and dive plan was so good she didn't have any concerns so was relaxed and more than willing to follow my lead however it went.
The next time I pretty much knew it would be bad and had a whole group from the club. Everyone got the dive briefing and bail out plan. Everyone had to use it and no one had an issue beyond not having the dive they were hoping for.

[Tubesnout23]

I don't think I have ever heard of hypocapnia before. In the scuba classes that I have taken so far instructors and books talk about to watch out for the building up of too much CO2 and Nitrogen. I did not think that not having enough CO2 could cause problems too.

One thing is sure: when I was down there I did not think about CO2 or any other gases at all! It is really hard to describe it in details because it happened so quickly and as soon as the dive was over the memory of the incident began to blur. I have never taken recreational drugs. In a way it was a bit like having a bad trip on LSD (based on from what I read and heard about it).

I'd call it a professional petty annoyance but I think it is neither petty and it is far more than an annoyance for people it happens to.
In days of old regulators were kind of lame and breathing could be difficult. People were 'tough', often smoked, were more used to their lungs and respiratory chemistry being screwed up, and a lot of the info that is still haunting us is based on that. Due to the difficulty of actually monitoring the respiratory physiology the info is still with us.

Do I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not CO2 buildup? No. But I'd stake my professional reputation on situations like this that is it exactly the opposite.

Sit and hold your breath for a minute. Most folks will find this hard if they don't practice. Even 30 seconds can be uncomfortable. That's a tiny amount of hypoventilation.
Now, hyperventilate vigorously. The more you do it, the worse it gets. Stop when you feel weird enough. Don't go crazy and push this too far-in some ways it's worse than hypoventilation.
BTW-functionally neither of these will affect O2 levels to any reasonable level at all. You have to hold your breath for about 3 minutes before your O2 level starts to drop and with partial pressure increases at depth and Nitrox use this is almost impossible to create on a recreational dive. (Rebreathers and trimix gases are a totally separate issue)

A normal response to anxiety is increased respiration. Of course exertion does the same thing. Add the 2 together and you set the stage for hyperventilation. A side note is adding pseudofed or high doses of coffee or other stimulants to the mix increases the likelihood of hyperventilation. Personally I think the biggest issue with pseudofed use is the increased incidence of anxiety with diving. I've seen this numerous times including my wife.

The body REALLY REALLY does not like hypoventilation. It'll do about anything to avoid it. People that think they are skip breathing and building up CO2 likely are not (but how you going to know without a blood test?). If you practice you can get your respiratory rate down to a stable 4 breaths/minute. There will be no effective CO2 buildup beyond normal. At depth with increased air density slow deep breathing becomes more effective for good gas exchange. My RR seems to just automatically decrease as i get deeper.

When you are having a full blown anxiety attack while diving one of the last things you think about is your breathing. OTOH, slow deep breathing is the same as relaxed respiration and if you force yourself into that breathing pattern you automatically will start relaxing. Relaxation exercises all start with breathing-slow deep breathing. The key is to stay on top of it before it goes critical. I've dove with folks that have anxiety attacks while underwater. Unfortunately this leads to further anxiety about diving, setting the stage for problems. On dives like that we submerge at chest deep level and do not venture deeper than 10 feet unless the person is ready, indicates that to me, and I believe it by giving them a good look. By agreement either can call the dive immediately for any reason at any time without the need for discussion. This takes a lot of the burden off the dive, which alone is hugely helpful.

I agree with the other folks on how this was handled overall. In a tough situation you did well. Glad you had a good buddy that hung in there with you. You both learned and this will help in the future. Skyline used to make me anxious but after a couple not so hot dives there I know I can just work my way to shore and crawl back. A bit of a hassle but certainly not life threatening. Once that burden is gone it's much easier to not even have to work to stay calm.

Thank you very much for your detailed post.

[fmerkel]

There is an article Fathoms of Fear in the recent Alert Diver (May/June 09). It appears like like it should be on line at DAN (http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/). You have to be a logged in member and it's being flaky and won't let me in.

I quote from the magazine article:

The most common relative risk factor for panic in both male and female divers was hyperventilation associated with anxiety, which the diver also reported (see table 5)

I feel a tad supported by the 'establishment'. I've been going counter current against the 'CO2 build up' notion associated with this kind of incident since I first learned about it. Didn't make physiological sense to me and 15 years of diving experience haven't changed my mind but the old diver myth continues. Not to say CO2 buildup never happens but it's an unlikely scenario in this kind of situation.

Fritz

[pensacoladiver]

I've had the same Issues with anxiety.. I even had it on saturday just before the watmough Point dive.. I still get it depending on the depth, place , and Vis... What's important is ..I work it out..I stop..take 3 slow deep breaths ..and talk myself out of it..
Were all diff..Good job on working it out, and processing through it.. The more you exp. The better you be .

I will attest to H2O's anxiety.

My typical dive plan is to talk about it on the boat ride, approach the site, kill the boat motor, and be in the water before the boat comes to a complete stop!!!

I was H2O's dive buddy today at Alaska Reefer and I saw the anxiety. HOWEVER, once in the water, things were about as graceful and smooth as silk.

[pensacoladiver]

I have dove Skyline many times under various conditions (I was hungry for fish and theres a great hole with Kelp Greenling at 85 feet). Under some of the "less than optimum" conditions, on the way out to the hole, I knew the swim back in was not going to be fun, so I usually ascend to about 30 feet or so and just crawl along the rocks after I dump all the air from by BC.

As a last ditch effort, you can totally surface and worl your way in along tbhe rocks, or even get out and walk the path (never done that and it does not look fun, but it is an option if your are "ready to get out of the water".

My last bit of advice, for what its worth is... if you are dedicated to diving Skyline or a day the current is stronger than you desire, don't go out quite as far. I have stopped at the 70 foot mark and then started up the walland just took my time crawling back against the current at 40 feet or so.

Thanks for the dive report!!!

Chad

[Tubesnout23]

There is an article Fathoms of Fear in the recent Alert Diver (May/June 09). It appears like like it should be on line at DAN (http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/). You have to be a logged in member and it's being flaky and won't let me in.

I quote from the magazine article:

The most common relative risk factor for panic in both male and female divers was hyperventilation associated with anxiety, which the diver also reported (see table 5)

I feel a tad supported by the 'establishment'. I've been going counter current against the 'CO2 build up' notion associated with this kind of incident since I first learned about it. Didn't make physiological sense to me and 15 years of diving experience haven't changed my mind but the old diver myth continues. Not to say CO2 buildup never happens but it's an unlikely scenario in this kind of situation.

Fritz

Thanks for the article tip.

I have read it, but I guess it must not have made a big impression on me because I have already forgotten its content! I will re-read it again.

By the way I did send this story to DAN. I am curious to know what those folks have to say about it (if they are going to reply at all!).

Cheers