DIW access

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fmerkel
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DIW access

Post by fmerkel » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:32 pm

Anyone from the Tacoma area have a big chainsaw and associate knowledge to use it without harming yourself?
Just did a DIW dive (lousy viz, great current, but this is not the story.)

King tides and probably storms from the SW have put 2 HUGE, REALLY HUGE driftwood trees completely across the access. They go all the way from "Mr. Angry" to the north to the folks on the south side and rammed right up against the concrete barrier to the north. Luckily you can go around them to the south, and access the water. I attempted to ask permission from the south residents that have been friendly in the past but they weren't home so I left a message. I suggest anyone attempting to dive there also ask permission. I think it would be a positive interaction with the neighbors. Don't bother with Mr. Angry. He's probably doing a happy dance.

I'm not at all sure if there are official channels to deal with this problem.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: DIW access

Post by Jeff Pack » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:34 pm

Anyone to ask about dealing with it, not that I know of

Plenty of government types to jump your ass for doing it if reported.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

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H20doctor
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Re: DIW access

Post by H20doctor » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:31 pm

I would say that it's up to the people living on day island to deal with the logs at the beach.. unfortunately if somebody showed up with a chainsaw and tried to do a good deed... They would most likely get an ass chewing by the locals
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ljjames
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Re: DIW access

Post by ljjames » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:37 pm

Maybe make friends with the folks? See if they'd be interested in us helping them clean up the access? I mean worst case get WSA involved and see if there is any way we could 'pay' them for use of an easement or whatnot. I would argue that shoreline public access is something that WSA should be actively involved in considering how many sites we've lost access to over the past few decades.

Divers can be noisy, we do have a tendency to take up parking places and space. Yes we are visiting shared natural resources but there are ways to mitigate cranky neighbors. I've done this personally at some assorted sites along Alki so as to garner private shore access for our 'storm drain search', We can do pretty long car to car scooter runs but it is great to have shore access somewhere in the middle. We have public access easements where similar neighbors take it upon themselves to 'remind' divers that the easement is 'right there' and to not walk on their 'property'. So again... with a bit of work and negotiation skills, sometimes things can be made better for everyone and reduce friction in ways that will preserve public access for years to come.
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fmerkel
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Re: DIW access

Post by fmerkel » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:58 pm

This site is bordered on the north by "Mr. Angry". I'm sure he's disappointed that the entire access is not blocked. He's historically been adversarial.

The folks on the south have been friendly in the past. I did not get to talk to them on the dive as they were not home. I would hope they might be responsive to reasonable requests. I'm not at all sure what the rules are regarding this as public access.

I have no idea what kind of official resources might be tapped to deal with this. Don't know if it's available, possible, or even exists.
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Re: DIW access

Post by ljjames » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:16 pm

I will repeat, this is where our advocacy group should step in and step up, similar to the surfing community. What is the role of WSA if not to protect and secure access to our shared waterways for Scuba Divers? As an individual it IS often hard to know what or how to handle these situations. We don't need to reinvent any wheels here, groups have been advocating for public shoreline access for as long as there has been contention.

SHORE access to dive sites in the northwest is one of the reasons diving in the northwest has been so strong in the past, and something that has historically set us apart. No huge ocean wave entries, many protected coves even when wind and weather kick up... There are few other areas in the country with such ready access to such brilliant marine life. It is something we should NOT take for granted and absolutely fight for tooth and nail. The more access we lose the more the diving industry in the region will continue to drop off, until its just like most everywhere else, still home to divers but majority of them only really do so when on vacation.

Shore diving in this region has always been the great equalizer, something that allowed broke ass college students to dive with the same brilliant creatures that the more affluent folks who can afford charters or own their own boats. It could be argued an equity issue (if it were not a luxury hobby already) ;)
fmerkel wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:58 pm
This site is bordered on the north by "Mr. Angry". I'm sure he's disappointed that the entire access is not blocked. He's historically been adversarial.

The folks on the south have been friendly in the past. I did not get to talk to them on the dive as they were not home. I would hope they might be responsive to reasonable requests. I'm not at all sure what the rules are regarding this as public access.

I have no idea what kind of official resources might be tapped to deal with this. Don't know if it's available, possible, or even exists.
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mpenders
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Re: DIW access

Post by mpenders » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:32 pm

ljjames wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:37 pm
Maybe make friends with the folks? See if they'd be interested in us helping them clean up the access? I mean worst case get WSA involved and see if there is any way we could 'pay' them for use of an easement or whatnot.
Thankfully, there is already a public access corridor at this site.

PIerce County Assessor map:
DIW Access.JPG
Google maps;
DIW Access 2.JPG
My experiences have been the same as fmerkel: the homeowner to the north (aka: Mr. Happy) has been notoriously unfriendly to anyone that wishes to use it. Well, to divers at least.

The vegetation inside the access is often overgrown (including blackberry thickets), leaving only small path to the water. I doubt Mr. Happy spends any time maintaining the access, as he'd likely prefer it being completely blocked. I'm not sure who is responsible for maintaining the access. It looks like Day Island falls under the jurisdiction of the city of University Place. This is from the UP website:

"Public Works
The mission of the Maintenance & Operations Division is to protect and maintain the City's infrastructure and assets, including all public rights-of-way..."

I put in a call and left a message to the UP Public Works dept this afternoon. No response yet.

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Re: DIW access

Post by Gdog » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:12 pm

Thanks Mike. Keep us posted to a response should you get one....

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ljjames
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Re: DIW access

Post by ljjames » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:00 pm

So, historically speaking, has anyone sat down and tried to negotiate with the neighbors and city, come up with some ideas for maintenance etc?

I hear what a few folks are saying re: adversarial but I'd like to understand more how these exchanges took place. Was it in the heat of the moment street side, divers standing there frustrated, wearing full heavy gear, hot and grumpy too? or was it actually in a more controlled, mediated situation (again i'm arguing for a more neutral proxy to be of assistance). What are mr angry's concerns/complaints? What are the thoughts of the friendly neighbor? Where does the city stand on the issue?

Yes, easements are there, i know that, but as indicated by this thread, just having a 'legal easement' is sometimes not enough. I helped work on a story some years back on 'shoreline street end parks' (in Seattle) and this was consistently an issue but with some advocate work, compromise was found that allowed safe shore access as opposed to climbing over/through makeshift (illegal) fences/barriers and bramble bushes. https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/ ... treet-ends

when i talk about advocacy and assistance from third party i'm talking about stuff like this: https://www.surfrider.org/initiatives/beach-access
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Re: DIW access

Post by SCUBARM79 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:13 pm

Growing up, going to my grandpa's cabin on Camano Island, we'd often have to clear the logs from the driveway ramp to the beach and the bulkhead. As residents on the beach were not impressed with chainsaws, we would grab the peevees from the shed and roll them up the driveway to dry and would process them with two person cross cut saws and axes into fire wood. Great way to keep kids busy. If the 'pile' was 'full' we'd roll the logs down the beach to the neighbors' cabins and they'd give us popsicles! If the root balls aren't a problem, a little muscle and applied leverage could work on a non-dive day.

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Jeff Pack
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Re: DIW access

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:42 pm

You can do a work party to clear brush along the way and pack it out. Where it gets tricky is the moment you are within short distance of the water. I worked heavy equipment near waters, and even a drop of oil would get many government agencies up our buts. Now if you hand saw it, that would be ok.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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mpenders
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Re: DIW access

Post by mpenders » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:18 pm

mpenders wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:32 pm

I put in a call and left a message to the UP Public Works dept this afternoon. No response yet.
Update: I received a call back this morning from Gary at the City of University Place (I'm assuming Public Works Dept.).

The short version: They don't deal with driftwood/trees/debris/etc. that are washed ashore as a result of storms/wind/nature. They figure storms bring it in, and storms will (should) take it back out.

The longer version: He confirmed that Day Island is part of UP, and immediately offered up (before I explained the basis for my call) that dealing with the homeowners on DI is very...touchy. I explained the water access being blocked, and was looking for options. See above - they don't deal with it.

He sympathized with us, explained that he used to be an active diver himself ,and understood where we are coming from. He further explained that the corridor is not actually a public access point, but instead a continuation of the road easement for 19th St. (and that there used to be a bridge on 19th St. to/from the east side of the island). He's worked there at the city for 20+ years, and issues with/from residents is common. Some would like to put a locked gate at the bridge, preventing the public from accessing the island. He said he sent a crew to do some trimming/clearing of that road easement back in the 90's. The hostile response received by some of the neighbors proved to be more trouble that it was worth, and they haven't been back.

I told him that there is evidence of someone trimming brush from the trail every so often - could that have been the city? Said no, and guessed it was probably divers or other persons try to get to the water. He agreed that taking chainsaws down to the beach would not be well accepted by some locals, and could result in some type of confrontation.

He didn't' have any other suggestions as to any other local/federal/etc. agency to contact for assistance. If the Army Corp of Engineers were to be involved, permits and other red tape would likely be required.

He said if can think of any other options, that he would get in touch.

I don't expect to hear back from him.

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Re: DIW access

Post by fmerkel » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:30 pm

Bandito and a tow rope? Good PR, not as good for business.
Tug of war with about 20 divers at low tide to twist the tips out into the water? Way too big to move the base.

These are not your regular driftwood logs you can step over. They have a very large root ball which elevates the trunk to high waist/chest level, and 20-30 feet long fair sized trunk. There are some extra regular logs to add to the mix. Could be a good while before there is an appropriate tide to get these monsters moving out.
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Re: DIW access

Post by Cyprian41 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 pm

Rachat de crédit trésorerie travaux
ljjames wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:37 pm
Maybe make friends with the folks? See if they'd be interested in us helping them clean up the access? I mean worst case get WSA involved and see if there is any way we could 'pay' them for use of an easement or whatnot. I would argue that shoreline public access is something that WSA should be actively involved in considering how many sites we've lost access to over the past few decades.

Divers can be noisy, we do have a tendency to take up parking places and space. Yes we are visiting shared natural resources but there are ways to mitigate cranky neighbors. I've done this personally at some assorted sites along Alki so as to garner private shore access for our 'storm drain search', We can do pretty long car to car scooter runs but it is great to have shore access somewhere in the middle. We have public access easements where similar neighbors take it upon themselves to 'remind' divers that the easement is 'right there' and to not walk on their 'property'. So again... with a bit of work and negotiation skills, sometimes things can be made better for everyone and reduce friction in ways that will preserve public access for years to come.
Hello I did not understand why you say that WSA should be actively involved in the examination of the number of sites?

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H20doctor
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Re: DIW access

Post by H20doctor » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:33 pm

Find another place to get in the water or buy a scooter... , The island residence sound like they're not diver friendly... unless you're going to knock on doors and get somebody involved don't waste your time, the minute you show up there with a chainsaw and you don't live on de island it's going to create a complete crap storm
And then probably shut down all access for future diving and divers...
So someone's going to have to go through the proper channels to get the logs removed.
If I lived in that area and I did day island wall a lot I would probably help but I never ever do that site.. and not worth it ... 😄
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ljjames
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Re: DIW access

Post by ljjames » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:02 pm

Because they are our de facto representative.

WSA = Washington Scuba Alliance

from their website:

In 1992 from humble beginnings, a group of dedicated scuba divers formed WSA to advocate for underwater parks. This mission has expanded to advocate for and to be actively involved in promoting a wide range of diver, non-diver, and environmental interests including healthy marine ecosystems, safe shoreline access, and underwater parks.

it's right there "safe shoreline access"

they should be the negotiating body for us, to help as a de-escalation voice between city, parks, frustrated homeowners and divers.
Cyprian41 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 pm
Hello I did not understand why you say that WSA should be actively involved in the examination of the number of sites?
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YellowEye
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Re: DIW access

Post by YellowEye » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:33 pm

Is the log still there?
Kind request: Always keep your reg in your mouth when entering/leaving the water! There's always a chance of a slip or a rogue wave, and several locals have perished from not having their regs at the ready over the years.

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Re: DIW access

Post by dlh » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:02 pm

It's not much of an obstacle and easy to walk around...
Dave

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