Any astronomy gurus out there?

[Kalatin]

As far as I can figure out, NWDC has a subject matter expert for just about anything I could dream up and I am at a loss on this one. Even has useful knowledge sometimes.
My husband wants a telescope for Christmas. I am aware that telescopes are used to look at the bright pretty things in the sky, but my knowledge ends there. I am looking to get a decent beginner telescope that he can use to play around in the backyard with. Anyone out there know about telescopes and where to start?
Thanks,
Kate

[Sockmonkey]

Even has useful knowledge sometimes.

Redneck!

-Eric

[defied]

As far as I can figure out, NWDC has a subject matter expert for just about anything I could dream up and I am at a loss on this one. Even has useful knowledge sometimes.
My husband wants a telescope for Christmas. I am aware that telescopes are used to look at the bright pretty things in the sky, but my knowledge ends there. I am looking to get a decent beginner telescope that he can use to play around in the backyard with. Anyone out there know about telescopes and where to start?
Thanks,
Kate

Is he a tinkerer? How many Scuba Units are you willing to put towards this?
My personal favorite is a dobsonian design. You can actually build your own fairly easily, and the only real cost is for the lenses. It's pretty awesome. There are some different sizes, and prices out there, so make sure to research carefully and thoroughly before you decide what to purchase

You can also look in to conventional Newtonian designs, as well as Cassegrain and it's variants.

Good luck!
D(B)

[Gooch]

o.k. so I have been here and done that a bit and have a few tidbits

1: Stay the heck away from Big 5 or any department store scopes- they are crap.
2: ignore any claims of magnification. Scopes are actually designed to pull in light. ALL scopes can be jacked up in mag to the sky but the limitation is their light gathering. That is why Defied likes the Dobs- big (cheap) light buckets.
3: It has been said " the best telescope is the one you use the most". This means if your scope is huge and unwieldly, you won't often pull it out to use. A smaller scope may have less light gathering, but if you can put it in backpack and hit the trails, what the heck?

There are three basic designs-

Refracting- the classic telescope- light comes in the front, out the back. These are long-ish. If you get one of these you want a 3-4" model.

Newtonion- Typically, around 4-5 inches diameter. Light in the front, off a mirror in the back, bounced off a smaller mirror in the front up to your eyepiece, which effectively doubles your focal length. These are pretty common and cheap.

Schmidt Cassegrain or MAK telescopes- are the cream of the crop- short with big apertures and a complicated mirroring system. These are the more expensive scopes and the coolest. Serious astronomers go for these or Dobs.

Now- advice. You can see a lot with a decent grade scope. The moon, moons of Jupiter, rings of saturn can be seen with almost any decent scope. You need to make sure you get a decent selection of eyepieces with whatever you buy as these are the power to see more or back off more. A 2X barlow is a must too---doubles any eyepiece.

If I were to do it all over (I have a 8"SCT Celestron with a tripod that could mount a .50 cal) I would get a smaller one. Maybe a 5-6" MAK or SCT. They are small and light, you can use them on the ground or for the sky. You can ever hook your camera to them and use them as a insane zoom if you are crafty.

Often, folks buy scopes and don't use them as much as they thought they would so that would argue for a cheaper beginner scope. Newtonions and Refractors would be good for this.


Plan on spending around at least $200+ for a decent beginner scope. Some folks argue that you should buy a good pair of binoculars and use them at first for stargazing but you won't get as close as you may want to the moons of Jupiter.

http://www.telescopes.com/

http://www.shopatron.com/products/categ ... 12.0.0.0.0 Meade telescopes factory outlet

This is a nice little MAK scope that you could see a lot with.
http://www.telescope.com/control/produc ... t_id=09824

Some places let you go out and try the scopes---like sean's astronomy shop in battleground, wa
http://www.infobtainers.com/

The trick is to spend enough to get a good scope so you won't have a sour experience. Another thought is getting a GOTO scope that you can use to have it point to things. Astronomy purist don't like them but they are cool and can find the stuff you want to see. I wish mine had it :(

Anyway- nuff said. Gimme a PM if I can be of more help

[dwashbur]

What's his primary interest? Planets? Double stars? Deep sky objects like galaxies etc? Star clusters? What kind of scope you go for depends a lot on what he wants to check out. The Dobsonian that somebody mentioned is a kind of Newtonian reflector; Newtonians are good for the moon, planets etc. because most of them tend to have a fairly wide field of view, but it can be hard to get high magnification. Cassegrains give better magnification, but have a very narrow field of view; at the lowest magnification you can get comfortably, a Schmidt-Cassegrain (for example) can't show you the entire moon. But they're great for planets and small deep-sky objects like nebulas and distant galaxies. I have an 8" Schmit-Cassegrain back in Boise that I've used to see detail on Mars, study several galaxies, check out the star in the center of the Ring Nebula, and see the holes ripped in Jupiter's atmosphere by comet Shoemaker-Levy 9.

The only type I wouldn't recommend is the refractor, which is your basic straight-through spyglass type. To get any kind of magnification you have to get one that's so big it's hard to take it anywhere, and they're prone to a problem with color distortion around the edges of the field of view.

For brand, the two best out there are Meade and Celestron. Ask a roomful of astronomy buffs which is better and you'll spark a kind of Ford/Chevy rivalry discussion. They're pretty much equal.

That's the scope. Next you have to choose eyepieces. In a good astronomy scope you'll use several interchangeable eyepieces, measured in millimeters. The higher the number, the lower the magnification, but it's a lot more complex than that. If you get him, say, a Meade 6" Cassegrain, you'll probably want to get at least 3 eyepieces, a 25mm for basic viewing, probably an 18mm to get a little closer, and a 10mm for good detail. Unless you live at the tip of Mount Rainier, you won't want to go any smaller than that because atmospheric disturbance will keep him from getting a clear image no matter how much he tries to focus (I speak from frustrating experience).

The next question is what your budget is like; that will determine whether you can get one that's computer-controlled, for example. Dobsonians can't be computer-controlled, but the nice thing about them is their price range: you can get a huge scope for a lot less than you can get a Cassegrain on a tripod, for example. If you have some specific models in mind that you've seen, PM me and I can probably give you some specifics about them.

Too much information?

[Matt S.]

I have a telescope though I am new to it all. My impressions might help. Or not.

This is what I have:

http://www.travelsmith.com/jump.jsp?ite ... C253%2C344

I got it from that site on some crazy sale when it was $60. For $60, it's awesome. It's capable of resolving the moons of Jupiter, at least the 4 big ones, and you can see some neat objects like the Pleiades that are not naked eye visible. ("Resolving" the moons of Jupiter means seeing tiny bright specks, by the way... nothing fancy. But you could see the disk of Jupiter itself, including some color, which was cool.

But for $300, the list price, I would have been PO'd. It feels cheap. The optics are obviously, even to a novice, not great. The smart computer aiming system works, but it is slow to set up and unless you can rig an AC adapter, it'll just eat batteries. The two eyepieces are... modest. The star finder/pointer was a pleasant surprise though--cheap, but very functional.

That all said, a similar scope is often at Costco. It might gather a bit more light, but what I noticed was it came with several more eyepieces, and it was also around $200, I think. At around $200, it MIGHT be worth it as a starter scope... but as others have pointed out, there are many options.

[defied]

The next question is what your budget is like; that will determine whether you can get one that's computer-controlled, for example. Dobsonians can't be computer-controlled, but the nice thing about them is their price range: you can get a huge scope for a lot less than you can get a Cassegrain on a tripod, for example. If you have some specific models in mind that you've seen, PM me and I can probably give you some specifics about them.

You can actually control a dobsonian by computer, but it's def a home brew job. That was the other reason I was asking if he was a tinkerer. If he wanted to be able to upgrade efficiently, and cheaply, and also be able to experiment, he would be able to focus monies on the big parts, and projects such as creating and interfacing motor controls if he were inclined.

Realistically though, the Dobsonian can be packed in to a hiking bag, DEPENDING on what frame type you purchase, or build, as there are some Dobsonian telescopes that amount to a stack of long sticks when broken down.

The Dobson was primarily built to be a yard telescope. It was something you could set up pretty quickly on your porch, and would allow you a good view of a lot of space.

Originally the Dobson was only good for local imaging, but some of the upgrades home brewers have done recently to their platforms have really allowed for farther viewing pleasure. I would google them, and take a look around.

D(B)

[dwashbur]

Defied,
The Dobs that I have seen that would really interest me have 8"-10" apertures and are around 4-5 feet long; you must have one heckuva hiking bag!

Seriously, how big is yours? I come back to my original question for the OP: what does he want to do with a telescope? That determines the answer to pretty much everything. I've been able to do just about everything I ever wanted to do with my Celestron classic C8; after I got the focal reducer for it I was even able to study the Andromeda Galaxy in some detail. If he wants to play around in the back yard and get started, I'd recommend something with drive motors like one of the mid-range Celestron or Meade SCT models, simply because it's much easier to study an object when it's not constantly moving out of view.

Matt S., that's one of the refractors I was talking about. Nice to pack up and take with you, but the realistic resolving power isn't going to be much. I originally bought my scope so I could look at Mars, because I'm an absolute Mars freak (I call myself an Areophile). I've already told God that when I die, before he takes me to heaven, I want to stop by Mars for a few hours and check things out. With a small refractor like that, Mars comes out a little red disc. I've been able to see the surface features, the polar caps, and even follow some dust storms over the years. I've been able to see the gaps in Saturn's rings and follow the progress of a lunar eclipse as it moved across the moon's surface. I also have the capability to attach a camera to my scope at the eyepiece end and do astrophotography through it, though that gets more than a little tricky and I never got very good at it. Again, it just comes down to what exactly he wants to do with it, what he wants to look at, and how serious he's likely to get about this.

In any case, my recommendation is the same as I used to tell my computer customers when they asked me what they should get: spend a little extra and get something that will do, both what you want to do, and a little bit more. Because eventually, as you get more proficient with the machine, you'll use that little bit more. It's better to have it and not use it immediately, than to need it down the road and not have it.

FWIW.

[defied]

Seriously, how big is yours?

First off, twss.

I come back to my original question for the OP: what does he want to do with a telescope? That determines the answer to pretty much everything. I've been able to do just about everything I ever wanted to do with my Celestron classic C8; after I got the focal reducer for it I was even able to study the Andromeda Galaxy in some detail. If he wants to play around in the back yard and get started, I'd recommend something with drive motors like one of the mid-range Celestron or Meade SCT models, simply because it's much easier to study an object when it's not constantly moving out of view.

Maybe that came out wrong. I'm not attacking you, and sorry if that's what you thought. I was recommending to Kal that she google it (and the other types) for options to see which routes she wants to go.

I have however seen some monster Dobsonians out there that have pulled some wicked pictures, but they are huge.

If you want some great distant shots in high resolution, the dobsonian you would have to build would probably be a little too big to be packed in. If you want to hike up a mountain, and get a wide view and great shots of the solar system, then you CAN do that with a larger dobson than any other large telescope, as the Dobson can be designed to fold down, and break apart a lot easier than a newtonian.

I personally like the Dobsonian, but I think awesomely of the Schmidt-Cassegrain. Just PLEASE don't bump it too hard. 0]

D(B)

[dwashbur]

Maybe that came out wrong. I'm not attacking you, and sorry if that's what you thought.

Never crossed my mind. I figured we were having a dialogue and kicking around our favorite types of scopes

I personally like the Dobsonian, but I think awesomely of the Schmidt-Cassegrain. Just PLEASE don't bump it too hard. 0]

The Dobsonian is definitely easier to transport, set up and get started; the Schmidt-Cassegrain is (my opinion) better for a permanent or semi-permanent setup in the back yard or wherever, because once you have it aligned, you can plug it in and start observing without much setup. So Kal, if portability is an issue, check out the Dob; if he's basically going to want to have a fairly solid mount in the yard, I'd lean toward the Schmidt-Cassegrain.

Sorry if we seem to be excluding you from the conversation, by the way!!!!!

[scottsax]

Stupid...should've been a PM

I know nothing about astronomy, except what Google Sky tells me. Carry on, smart people!

[H20doctor]

what about Mead telescopes ? are they any good ?

[defied]

Stupid...should've been a PM

I know nothing about astronomy, except what Google Sky tells me. Carry on, smart people!

Now I really want to know what you said!!

D(B)

[dwashbur]

what about Mead telescopes ? are they any good ?

Yep. Meade and Celestron are the industry leaders, and with good reason.

[Kalatin]

Please continue - I keep learning as I read and I am loving it.
I would like to spend less than $300. Portability is key, as we move (a lot) and do a lot of camping, so it would be nice if we could take it with us.
As for tinkering - if you ever see my husband with a tool kit in hand, please tackle him and call me immediately. Every time he touches something, it costs several thousands of dollars to repair. I love the man and he is my best friend, but don't let him "fix" anything.

[Kalatin]

Please continue - I keep learning as I read and I am loving it.
I would like to spend less than $300. Portability is key, as we move (a lot) and do a lot of camping, so it would be nice if we could take it with us.
As for tinkering - if you ever see my husband with a tool kit in hand, please tackle him and call me immediately. Every time he touches something, it costs several thousands of dollars to repair. I love the man and he is my best friend, but don't let him "fix" anything.
Oh, and Eric. You miss me, don't ya?

[Sockmonkey]

Oh, and Eric. You miss me, don't ya?

You got that right Lady.

-Eric

[defied]

Whipped out my old Telescope, knocked some of the dust out of it, and caught a couple of pics of the moon with my phone camera through the reticule (This is a 6 inch Galileo Newtonian, btw). Full moon, high pressure, cold atmosphere, very little distortion:

More recent versions of this telescope are between the price ranges you are looking for:
This one is a smaller version, but highly portable:
http://www.telescopes.com/telescopes/re ... escope.cfm
And this one is about the size of mine, lens diameter-wise however the length is shorter:
http://www.telescopes.com/telescopes/ca ... escope.cfm

If you zoom in on this pic, you will see that even though it's blurry (Camera phone), that the horizon of the moon is not flat. You can see the texture of the moon!

2009-12-01 20.52.31.jpg

2009-12-01 20.53.14.jpg

D(B)

[Sockmonkey]

On a semi related note...In case you didn't know there are a crap load of telescopes from various nations and agencies here on the Big Island up on Mauna Kea (14,4000 ft elevation). I think the worlds largest mirror lives up there or something. Most of the obesrving occurs here at 3,000 ft remotely.

I went to a meeting at the Keck Observatory last night and we got a quick tour of the facility and met some astronomers who were measuring the spin of various stars to detect planets. They told us that they can measure the speed of a star rotating down to 1 m/s. And they're now able to detect planets as small as 3 times the earth mass. Only a few years ago they said they could only detect gas giants (I'm using these terms as if I didn't just learn them last night) 7-10 times the earth's mass but now they're down in the orbiting rock size of planet. We saw all manner of sparc stations with plots and graphs (and even some green lines that looked like the matrix) a view of the star they were looking at in a cross hairs. This is the dude that was running the show from UC Santa Cruz. There was some fancy shmancy video teleconference unit to be able to talk to the guy actually running the telescope up at 14k ft.

Needless to say the nerd lobe of my brain was throwing horns as I quietly nodded my head politely.

At some point I need to get off my ass and drive up to the summit and check out the view...

-Eric

[defied]

We saw all manner of sparc stations with plots and graphs (and even some green lines that looked like the matrix) a view of the star they were looking at in a cross hairs.

I wonder if that was the stock Matrix Screensaver that ships with linux, and Solaris? 0]
Very cool. I can only wish to go hang out with those yahoos. I will admit, I'm more of a fan of radio astronomy, but any form of looking at the stars is pretty awesome in my book. 0]

D(B)

[Gooch]

If you want something that is really backpack portable and will be something that you can use quickly (read- more often) I would say you should get a 4-6" Makusutov (MAK) or soemthing similar with a goto mount. Other scopes will be cheaper (like a 80-90mm refractor or a 4-6" Newtonian but they will be more bulky so that is the trade off.

The Maks and small Schmidt Cassegrains are really good all around scopes for land and sky. If your husband really gets into astronomy a lot more than he is now, he may find that he needs a larger diameter scope to pull in fainter objects...this will be leading up to using Dobsonian scopes with silly-big aperaturees (10+ inches) but it will be down the road.

The big trick is not to buy something that will leave you with a bad taste for astronomy right off the bat. Features of the moon, jupiter, saturn and mars are easily seen (ok. mars isn't so easy) but they aren't hard to look at since they are so bright...in fact you will need a filter to look at the moon so you don't go half blind. Goto mounts that can interface with computers or just using the handheld controller are nice and have large built in libraries that make it easy for new astronomers to find planets, nebulaes and all sorts of cool stuff.

One thing to keep in mind- if you look at terrestrial stuff (mountains, distant land objects) you will need a special "erect image" eyepiece so the image is correct for left to right and isn't upside down...that is just how telescopes show everything (backwards and insides out) without that piece.

The Meade ETX 90 is a good small scope. The Orion MAKS are nice also from telescopes.com

Anacortes sky and telescope is a great place too for scopes http://www.buytelescopes.com/

[Gooch]

One more thing- when you zoom in on distant celestial objects (anything on high magnifications) they will appear to "fly" out of your eyepiece which makes enjoying the view tough sometimes. This is because of the earths rotation of course. I have a "clock" drive on my scope so when you set it up right, the drive keeps pace (pretty much) with the rotation. Goto mounts will typically take care of that, GPS mounts also (spendy) but if you get a plain-jane scope, it may not have any motors to keep up so just be aware of that too. Like I said, I wish my scope had a goto mount but I'm trying to use it the old fashioned way

[defied]

...in fact you will need a filter to look at the moon so you don't go half blind.

Quoted for truth. Last night it was so bright I actually crashed my phone when it couldn't auto-whitebalance fast enough.

I'd also have to look through my other eye when I pulled away from the telescope, and let that eye adjust to the night light.

D(B)

[Aquanautchuck]

I have a 15 year old 6"Celstron I bought from the OMSI story with about a half dozen of eye pieces. Love that scope but I moved off of a mountain top out in the country into the city and the background light is a pain. Great scope but kind of a pain to move. A 3" or 90 mm Mead would be a good starter scope for you.