Ling Cod regs

deep diver · Post by **deep diver** » Fri May 14, 2010 6:54 am

Anyone been hunting in Neah Bay for Ling Cod? Any contact with the game warden on the new size limits? Opens in local waters in 2 weeks and hope we don't see a lot of either too big or too small dead fish with holes in them. Sent email to fish and game on this and haven't gotten anything back yet, will post if I do. :zots:

whatevah · Post by **whatevah** » Fri May 14, 2010 9:23 am

The regulations have already been set - what were you wanting to learn from your email to the WDFW?

H20doctor · Post by **H20doctor** » Fri May 14, 2010 9:43 am

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11909
We are heading To Neah Bay Today ...

deep diver · Post by **deep diver** » Fri May 14, 2010 6:23 pm

whatevah wrote:The regulations have already been set - what were you wanting to learn from your email to the WDFW?

How are we to get them to hold still long enough to measure them before shooting them.... and do they supply plugs to fill the hole once they are shot and find out they aren't legal

H20doctor · Post by **H20doctor** » Fri May 14, 2010 7:28 pm

Why are you asking these questions ? If you can't determin if a fish is a legal size underwater , then don't take the shot .. Go dive edmonds underwater park , look and observe fish that are big and above size limits , and get a good reference on size limits... Take a tape measure and mark with a sharpie 26 inches on your Gun ... Get an estimate of the fish, before you shoot..

whatevah · Post by **whatevah** » Fri May 14, 2010 11:52 pm

deep diver wrote: How are we to get them to hold still long enough to measure them before shooting them.... and do they supply plugs to fill the hole once they are shot and find out they aren't legal

Unfortunately, common sense didn't figure into the decision. It's too late now and the regulations have been set. Those of us who spoke up were dismissed off hand by people who've never spent any time underwater in our area - most of them never spent any time on a boat either, and the majority of them wouldn't know a Lingcod from a Tubesnout. Something about "slot limits for spearfishers have been successfully implemented in other areas". If just getting the regulation in place so those making the changes can feel good about saving the world is what defines success I'd agree. However, I've been to places where there are strict slot limits on spearfishers, and outside of the MPAs they're barren - some "success" that is.

Oh well, at least the angling masses can continue to fish for weeks and weeks on end, hauling up and releasing under and over sized Lingcod over and again - oh, and a bunch of bloated rockfish too.

whatevah · Post by **whatevah** » Sat May 15, 2010 12:24 am

H20doctor wrote:Why are you asking these questions ?

Because they're reasonable questions for anyone who has much spearfishing experience in this area.

H20doctor wrote: If you can't determin if a fish is a legal size underwater , then don't take the shot .. Go dive edmonds underwater park , look and observe fish that are big and above size limits , and get a good reference on size limits... Take a tape measure and mark with a sharpie 26 inches on your Gun ... Get an estimate of the fish, before you shoot..

So first you're saying that it's entirely possible for someone to make a positive determination of fish length, and later you're admitting that it's an estimate. Which is it? There you are, on one of the three days of this year's Lingcod spearing season when you've got the right combination of weather, daylight, tidal conditions, a boat to dive from and you aren't stuck working or taking care of familial obligations - you're at 115', looking at the head of a Lingcod. Assume that there aren't a bunch of anglers passing above trying to hit you on the head with a 12oz chunk of lead coated in inverts they just ripped off the wall. This Lingcod isn't one of the domesticated freaks from Edmonds - it sees you, and it is getting antsy. You've got about 6' of visibility, and it is very very dark. It's supposed to be slack but there's still funky up/down/who-knows-what current. You might be suffering some from nitrogen narcosis. Most of the fish is tucked away behind rock. Given the benefit of your cutesy little sharpie marks (let's say you've got all day to turn your light on those marks, back to the fish, over and again while you make your estimates - oh, and please don't keep flipping your gun sideways when there are other divers somewhere out there in the darkness), what do you think your margin of error is?

deep diver · Post by **deep diver** » Sat May 15, 2010 6:15 am

couldn't have said it any better myself.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Sat May 15, 2010 6:36 pm

Bitch moan bitch moan.

If you don't know what you're shooting don't take the shot. Applies to ducks, deer, and lings.

whatevah · Post by **whatevah** » Sat May 15, 2010 6:53 pm

CaptnJack wrote:Bitch moan bitch moan.

If you don't know what you're shooting don't take the shot. Applies to ducks, deer, and lings.

Does your flippant response also apply to anglers? If you can't tell whether it's a legal Lingcod or a Canary Rockfish, don't set the hook and reel it to the surface? I know when I'm shooting a Lingcod - just can't be certain of its length within a reasonable margin of error prior to its demise. Would like further input since it is clear that you've given this at least as much thought as the WDFW/F&WC folks did.

eliseaboo · Post by **eliseaboo** » Sat May 15, 2010 6:59 pm

I can't believe I'm about to say this...but H2Odoc's comment was perfectly reasonable. If you aren't in a position to be reasonably sure the fish is legal, don't shoot it. Practice observing without a speargun, have a size reference underwater, those sound like good opinions to me.

whatevah · Post by **whatevah** » Sun May 16, 2010 10:26 am

eliseaboo wrote:be reasonably sure the fish is legal

So again, based on your experience harvesting Lingcod by speargun in Washington, what is "reasonably sure"? Is that 90% sure? 95% sure? Plus or minus three inches? What do you about the cases when you were "reasonably sure" but wrong?

lundysd · Post by **lundysd** » Sun May 16, 2010 10:53 am

If you aren't capable of taking an accurate measurement underwater prior to shooting something, then you're not ready to shoot anything.

If I couldn't estimate the speed in my car from my speedometer, should I be driving?
If I couldn't estimate how much breathable gas I had left in my tank from my SPG, should I be diving?

Come on this is plain logic.... if you're about to shoot a fish that's borderline, and you admittedly can't accurately estimate its size, then why do it?

deep diver · Post by **deep diver** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:02 am

Had another thought... if we are limited to the same fish size as hook and line, shouldn't our season be the same length?
Had a friend talk to a game warden and they agreed that the rule were stupid and in their opinion not many if any would be able to tell the difference between a 35" and 37", one being legal and the other not. Even people that measure fish for a living have stated that they believe they might be able to tell the difference, but if you don't do it ALL the time it would be hard and even they are wrong sometimes. They expect to have lots of wasted fish.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:47 am

deep diver wrote:Had another thought... if we are limited to the same fish size as hook and line, shouldn't our season be the same length?
Had a friend talk to a game warden and they agreed that the rule were stupid and in their opinion not many if any would be able to tell the difference between a 35" and 37", one being legal and the other not. Even people that measure fish for a living have stated that they believe they might be able to tell the difference, but if you don't do it ALL the time it would be hard and even they are wrong sometimes. They expect to have lots of wasted fish.

Yes they are washing up en mass on the beaches now.

Is it that hard to avoid 35.5" fish? Some ducks are particularly hard to ID on the wing, don't shoot them. Some bucks have extra points on only one side, they are legal but if you only saw the other side you'd hopefully have the wisdom to avoid shooting it. Complaining here is silly. The F&WC has a public input process for rule changes. Get on their mailing list, they will send you proposed changes by email or you can view them on the webpage. Attend the public comment meetings in person to be most effective, mailed comments have less "punch".

The season is not the same length because the effiency of spearing for lings is ALOT higher than the angling efficiency (fish per unit effort). You have to the capability to scope out fish in advance of the season and with the high site fidelity of lings then return to spear them in season. Anglers would kill for 1 ling per day, which I know a good spearfisherman can get - I know some of these divers.

Jaksonbrown · Post by **Jaksonbrown** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:55 am

After slaughtering massive amounts of ling cod this weekend in Neah bay

,.. I must say that trying to determine the size of a ling underwater is "best guess" at the very best. To try to measure using your marked spear gun, your attached tape measure, or whatever is near impossible. I tried to estimate the size of every ling I shot, and I was off by at least 4-6 inches on every fish. I thought they were all bigger than they actually turned out to be on the surface. They were all legal fish, but much smaller than I had thought while underwater.
What Im thinking now.. is that I will be passing up a lot of fish that I think are too big to shoot, but most likely would not have been.

Jaksonbrown · Post by **Jaksonbrown** » Mon May 17, 2010 8:26 am

CaptnJack wrote:
deep diver wrote:Had another thought... if we are limited to the same fish size as hook and line, shouldn't our season be the same length?
Had a friend talk to a game warden and they agreed that the rule were stupid and in their opinion not many if any would be able to tell the difference between a 35" and 37", one being legal and the other not. Even people that measure fish for a living have stated that they believe they might be able to tell the difference, but if you don't do it ALL the time it would be hard and even they are wrong sometimes. They expect to have lots of wasted fish.
Yes they are washing up en mass on the beaches now.

Is it that hard to avoid 35.5" fish? Some ducks are particularly hard to ID on the wing, don't shoot them. Some bucks have extra points on only one side, they are legal but if you only saw the other side you'd hopefully have the wisdom to avoid shooting it. Complaining here is silly. The F&WC has a public input process for rule changes. Get on their mailing list, they will send you proposed changes by email or you can view them on the webpage. Attend the public comment meetings in person to be most effective, mailed comments have less "punch".

The season is not the same length because the effiency of spearing for lings is ALOT higher than the angling efficiency (fish per unit effort). You have to the capability to scope out fish in advance of the season and with the high site fidelity of lings then return to spear them in season. Anglers would kill for 1 ling per day, which I know a good spearfisherman can get - I know some of these divers.

Richard,
You are so far off base here it is amazing. Have you ever spearfished? Have you ever hunted ducks? Deer? anything??.... because all of your points are incredibly wrong. Ducks are very easy to identify on the wing, deer can all be identified prior to shooting them,..( having slaughtered thousands of ducks and dozens of deer myself). Are you really asking if it is hard to avoid shooting a lingcod by making a measurement of 1/2 inch?? Amazing... I couldnt do it within several inches doing all I could to measure a fish that was laying in the sand let alone in the kelp or the rocks, etc this weekend.....Everyone in my party all came up with the same reports.... all saying things like " I cannot belive how far off I was" or " I really thought it was much bigger" The point is.... due to natural tendency of things to look larger in the water, and the fact that your holding a measuring stick or your gun six feet above an object, does not lend itself to accurate measurement. The fish are not gonna hold still for you to lay that measuring tool right along side of them. It is just a guess, based on experience... period.
And spearfishing is shorter seasons due to the efficiency??? Nearly every hook and line guy this weekend reported getting their ling cod in a matter of minutes of fishing... and also killing "rivers" of illegal rock fish in bycatch. There were hundreds of boats in Neah bay this weekend and each boat had several fishermen per boat. All catching their limits of rock fish and lingcod. I mean these guys were coming in with wheelbarrows full of fish! We, as far as I know.. were the only spearfishermen in the area. Our 15 or so ling cod killed compared to the 700 or more that were taken by hook and line guys this weekend alone pales in comparison. I take that back.. it doesent just pale in comparison, it is a freeking Joke in comparison to hook and line. So telling me that the season is shortened for spearos to "save" ling cod.. makes me want to puke and then punch someone in the face for utter stupidity.
The regulations governing spearing in Wa is nothing but pure politics to satisfy ignorant fools and tree huggers that something is being done to "regulate" lingcod harvest.

pensacoladiver · Post by **pensacoladiver** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:48 am

Whateveh,

I have to agree with one of your posts in another topic. I also will probably not hunt Lings this year in Puget Sound. Trying to hit the "Slot limit" is going to be more of a PITA than I think I want to deal with.

There is no "max" size in area 4. Anything over 24 inches is fair game. As I have posted before, that is a pretty easy decision to make with a mark on your gun. What I told the hunters this weekend was... If you look at the Ling and don't say to yourself "Damn, that is a big Ling"... don't shoot it.

As a general rule, a 24 inch fish is going to look pretty big underwater. I know my method is not science, but it worked out good in application this weekend.

In the Sound, I would have to take the above stance and modify it to "Boy that Ling is huge, but not too big". That just ain't going to happen.

There is always ONE person who is DIRECTLY responsible for any law that is passed. If you are that person and are reading this, know, YOU made a HUGE mistake. If you think not, I invite YOU to grab a spear gun and lets go TRY to shoot some 26-36 inch Lings.

Mattleycrue76 · Post by **Mattleycrue76** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:51 am

I hear alot of people say something to the effect of "if you can't determine it's size don't shoot it". Great theory. I've been trying my hand a spearfishing recently and I can tell you a few things from my learning experience.

1.Yes, the fish have a fighting chance. When you approach them with a gun or a spear they're suddenly not nearly as dumb as they were letting on. One flick of the tail and they're gone.

2. Trying to measure a fish underwater ACURATELY is nearly impossible. I tried on four different occasions to get my gun close enough the the fish to use the markings as a guide and even when I did get what I thought to be an accurate measurement it was enough to spook them into taking off. The one time I had a clean shot and thought I had at least two inches to spare I ended up on deck with a ling that was about 1/8th of an inch short. After measuring about five times to be sure our captain made the call, we chucked him overboard, and now he's crab food.

I don't say this lightly, I love to hunt for dinner, but I absolutely hate killing anything that I don't have to. I can honestly say that I tried my best and in this case it wasn't good enough. Maybe I should try to sign up for a spearfishing class - Oh yeah that's right there aren't any.

To me the problem is that the people saying you should "know" what you're shooting seem to either be strangers to spearfishing or very experienced. I understand that with enough experience you can probably gauge a fish by looking at it but experience does not come without trial and error. If you just spend time looking at fish underwater without bringing those exact fish topside you simply can't develop a point of reference.

Imagine spedometers didn't exist and you got your drivers lincense without training, just by paying sixty bucks at the DMV and then were told ok you can drive now but have to go faster than fifty but slower than sixty or else you get a ticket. Good luck!

Shouldn't we have rules that are reasonably able to be followed by people of ALL skill levels allowed to participate in a given activity?

WASP7000 · Post by **WASP7000** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:01 am

I agree that this is a misguided and ridiculous rule. Anyone that really is pissed off by this should think about filling one of these out: http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/commission/rule_ ... tition.pdf

and maybe send an e-mail to : commission@dfw.wa.gov

Jaksonbrown · Post by **Jaksonbrown** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:03 am

pensacoladiver wrote:Whateveh,

There is always ONE person who is DIRECTLY responsible for any law that is passed. If you are that person and are reading this, know, YOU made a HUGE mistake. .

Once again Chad..... Epic post!

no excuses · Post by **no excuses** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:44 am

Mattleycrue76 wrote:. The one time I had a clean shot and thought I had at least two inches to spare I ended up on deck with a ling that was about 1/8th of an inch short. After measuring about five times to be sure our captain made the call, we chucked him overboard, and now he's crab food.

Sorry but that is BS, if you shoot you bring it home with you. If its too big/small you still bring it home and take youre chances on a ticket. If you pull the trigger on it and killed it you bought it, respect it enough to bring it home. People wasting game just pisses me off, there is no difference wether its just taking the backstrap from a deer or tossing fish back. Just my .02cents and rant off

Old Nubbins · Post by **Old Nubbins** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:49 am

It is obvious this law is intended to reduce the amount of fish harvested simply by forcing the responsible spearfisher to not hunt. The government's line of thinking seems to be: If you can't change the habits of the irresponsible people, force the responsible ones to change.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 am

Jaksonbrown wrote:
pensacoladiver wrote:There is always ONE person who is DIRECTLY responsible for any law that is passed. If you are that person and are reading this, know, YOU made a HUGE mistake. .

Once again Chad..... Epic post!

imvho, the "epic" post is the one directly above yours, corey. if it bothers you that much, do something about it, instead of complaining on an internet forum that the lawmakers likely don't read.

Old Nubbins · Post by **Old Nubbins** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:53 am

no excuses wrote: Sorry but that is BS, if you shoot you bring it home with you. If its too big/small you still bring it home and take youre chances on a ticket. If you pull the trigger on it and killed it you bought it, respect it enough to bring it home. People wasting game just pisses me off, there is no difference wether its just taking the backstrap from a deer or tossing fish back. Just my .02cents and rant off

If it was not his boat, I don't believe it was his call. The boat owner has the most to loose in this situation.

Northwest Dive Club

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