Dog shooting in Des Moines

[CaptnJack]

As some of you might be aware, I am the current president of the Newfoundland Club of Seattle (www.newfclubseattle.org).

A few days ago a Newfoundland (Rosie) got out of her back yard in Des Moines. According to witnesses she was loose but in her own driveway when the police decided it was a good idea to Taser her. She fled to a nearby backyard, somehow entering. The neighboring backyard was fenced and locked so police got permission from the homeowner to enter. Eventually shooting the quite scared dog in the otherwise fenced yard.

Its pretty clear that this would never have happened to a smaller dog. Rosie weighed about 115lbs not 200 as some have claimed. Nor should any loose animal be tasered (its not an approved use per the manufacturer) and in this case police merely escalated what many of us would not consider a public menace. Newfoundlands are generally considered "gentle giants" and I am having an especially hard time believing a spayed 2yo female was doing anything more than defending her own driveway. The whole scene could probably have been defused with a cookie.

In any case, I just wanted to share this tragedy with the broader community here. If you'd like to read the new accounts so far, along with some witness statements they are available here:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/107006303.html?
http://www.federalwaynews.net/2010/11/0 ... cerns-des-

Rosie was from a reputable breeder in Ferndale who is well regarded locally.

Richard
Diver and Newfoundland lover

[Marc]

Sadly, this is one more reason my Shepherd isn't allowed outside without one of us and never without a lead. Misconceptions of dogs are their worst enemy...

[CaptnJack]

I know.
Despite how much they love lounging outside (or have to "hold it" while we're gone), ours are only outside on lead, at the offleash dog park, or when we are in the yard too (which is fenced).

[scottsax]

Man, that's jacked up. Newfies are some of the sweetest animals I've known. I guess it's good my dogs are pansies and don't want to go outside in the cold...

[dwashbur]

Please tell me there's going to be an investigation and that cop is going to be on the hot seat!!!!!

[nwbobber]

This pisses me off. I wonder if the officers involved had any training in how to treat/recognize a frightened dog. I have been around dogs all my life, and have never seen a situation that required this kind of response, let alone a Newfoundland, which as a breed are about as dangerous as your average golden retriever.

[CaptnJack]

Please tell me there's going to be an investigation and that cop is going to be on the hot seat!!!!!

Apparently they normally don't for officer-animal conflicts, but there has been a fair amount of concern about the fact that the dog was essentially at home when the incident started. That and the public outcry has warranted an investigation. If you wish to comment to the city etc here are some contacts. I got these off their facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=messages&ti ... t=note_tag


Komo 4 News
Luke Duecy
lduecy@komonews.com
http://www.komonews.com/


King County Prosecutor
Prosecuting.Attorney@kingcounty.gov

Des Moines City Officials
http://www.desmoineswa.gov/

Des Moines Police
Interim Chief John O'Leary joleary@desmoineswa.gov
Commander Kevin Tucker ktucker@desmoineswa.gov

[CaptnJack]

This pisses me off. I wonder if the officers involved had any training in how to treat/recognize a frightened dog. I have been around dogs all my life, and have never seen a situation that required this kind of response, let alone a Newfoundland, which as a breed are about as dangerous as your average golden retriever.

I think any dog would be pretty upset being tasered in their driveway.

There's really no excuse for inadequate training around here, one of the nation's premier police dog trainers lives in Woodinville for instance. Not to mention Seattle is a "hub" for animal behavioralists. But really there's a certain amount of wisdom which is lacking here.

[Tom Nic]

Bummer.

...and I've been having this strange urge to hug Newfie.

Not hittin' on your dog, just have this recurring feeling of need for a "doggie fix" and picture myself with face burried in the fur of a big newfie. They are great dogs, and this is really too bad.

[CaptnJack]

Turns out Des Moines has no dedicated animal control. When King County cut their animal control budget and went to a contract basis only with cities, Des Moines decided they didn't need animal control and that regular police could handle these responsibilties.

[Geek]

Turns out Des Moines has no dedicated animal control. When King County cut their animal control budget and went to a contract basis only with cities, Des Moines decided they didn't need animal control and that regular police could handle these responsibilties.

They were wrong, I rank puppy nappers and dog abusers up with the worst of the worst.... I hope somebody loses a job over this... :angry:

[Grateful Diver]

Des Moines is where an old lady was lethally mauled by a couple of loose dogs last year. I got a feeling that might have had something to do with the over reaction in this case. People who don't know dogs don't see a big, lovable pet ... they see a big dog who ain't on a leash.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[CaptnJack]

Apparently this is the 2nd dog to be tasered in as many months. So far its always ending badly for the dogs.

[Marc]

Understandable, but, police are paid not to overreact.

Can you imagine the chaos had the dog been carrying a closed folding blade knife?

Des Moines is where an old lady was lethally mauled by a couple of loose dogs last year. I got a feeling that might have had something to do with the over reaction in this case. People who don't know dogs don't see a big, lovable pet ... they see a big dog who ain't on a leash.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[CaptnJack]

Its kinda obvious in retrospect, but a dog that "nobody can get close to" is not really likely to maul anyone.

[Marc]

I guess my big gripe is that most police officers do a lot of domestic calls. Dogs are involved fairly frequently. A LEO should know what dogs are more likely to be a hazard-yes, I know any animal can be a hazard to someone if it feels threatened, but I would think a LEO would familiarize themselves with breeds and act accordingly....

This was essentially shooting a a monochrome Saint Bernard.

I understand an officer being apprehensive if they run into my dog; German Shepherd. They would be incorrect because she is a sweetheart, but I get it. Newfie? doesn't make any sense.

[airsix]

Understandable, but, police are paid not to overreact.
Can you imagine the chaos had the dog been carrying a closed folding blade knife?

I peer into your short statement and see it's actually 1,000ft deep (with great viz!) and I agree 100%.
People are allowing the creation of a Nanny State and are shocked to discover there are unintended consequences.

It stems from a lack of basic self-reliance, people. If you neighbor's dog is loose pick up the phone and call your neighbor. When you outsource basic problem solving these are the results you get.

[CaptnJack]

When you outsource basic problem solving these are the results you get.

And outsource on the cheap, Des Moines has just under 30,000 residents (probably ~10,000 dogs), 44 police officers, and one part-time animal control officer who wasn't on duty at the time.

http://www.highlinetimes.com/2010/11/09 ... e-dog-shot

[Marc]

Don't get me started on the lack of self reliance.

Understandable, but, police are paid not to overreact.
Can you imagine the chaos had the dog been carrying a closed folding blade knife?

I peer into your short statement and see it's actually 1,000ft deep (with great viz!) and I agree 100%.
People are allowing the creation of a Nanny State and are shocked to discover there are unintended consequences.

It stems from a lack of basic self-reliance, people. If you neighbor's dog is loose pick up the phone and call your neighbor. When you outsource basic problem solving these are the results you get.

[scottsax]

If you neighbor's dog is loose pick up the phone and call your neighbor.

Ah, but you're assuming that people necessarily know their neighbors.

[So.OregonDiver]

this is so sad...I did have a slightly negative experience with a newfie once, he almost knocked me down while trying to lick my face! great water dogs...

[ArcticDiver]

If you neighbor's dog is loose pick up the phone and call your neighbor.

Ah, but you're assuming that people necessarily know their neighbors.

Ain't that a fact! In today's world they are most likely the "people next door" instead of "neighbors".

[Grateful Diver]

Something like that would never happen in Federal Way ... because in this town the police won't even show up unless they can give somebody a ticket ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[John Rawlings]

If you want your heart to break, read this story about the incident:

http://www.highlinetimes.com/2010/11/09 ... eld-sunday

My wife and I think of our dogs as family, and would defend them as strongly as if they were our own children. It sounds like the owners of Rosie loved their dog with the same passion.

If this had been my dog, that "police officer" wouldn't have a safe place to hide....anywhere. Ironic, since Rosie thought she had found a safe place to hide and then this "public servant" pumped four shots into her. Can you believe it....he laughed about it in front of the horrified family whose yard it happened in.

This is tragic....and it's not right.

- John

[ArcticDiver]

Understand my comment is an emotional one based on being bitten twice as a youngster; as an adult while running cornered in the middle of a street by two dogs while their owner watched from the window; several times being chased while riding my bicycle; seeing somewhat schizo behaviour by several dogs who were aggressive while away from their owners and then very lovable while with their owners, and doing a bit of dog training that converted unstable dog into a great companion.

That the dog was outside and not wearing a collar is on the owner. In today's world there is no excuse for a family pet to be outside the house, dog or human, without identification. That the owner allowed that tells me either they don't love the dog as much as they claim, or they are incredibly out of touch with reality. Dogs are pack animals. The pack leaders, the owners, let a member of the pack stray without supervision. That is an abject failure of pack leadership and obviously had serious consequences.

The biggest problem I have with this incident is the horribly immature reaction of the police officers, assuming the newspaper account is correct. A police officer who cannot maintain some kind of emotional control when using deadly force on a dog cannot be trusted to properly assess and react to a situation involving a human. They, all of them involved, need to be evaluated to determine whether they have the intelligence and psychological attributes necessary to properly carry out their duties.

Sad, but, to me, responsibility for the dog's situation was mixed and may, in the long run, result in a better police force for the city.