Northwest Dive Club

So sorry, Ron. Glad you're ok!

When someone tried to break into our house, it was also in the middle of the day. Since I work from home, we installed an alarm system *AND* motion sensors to the front and back door areas. They aren't tied to the alarm, but they set-off a chime inside the house if anyone approaches either door. It's great peace of mind when I'm home alone!!

Glad to see another person who isn't all sprung solely on just the mossberg 500/590's and can think of an old relic as more than a "boxy auto-loading piece of aluminum" =P

That's awesome to hear that you were also LE at one point. I base my knowledge of castle clause stuff on Atlanta's castle clause rules which essentially state that you are entitled to do whatever necessary to stop someone's forced entry into your "castle" (be it car or home) where you feel that "upon them entering they pose immediate threat of death or dismemberment." One would assume the tool used to pry your window open and break your door frame could be used in a lethal way. A crowbar is definitely a lethal weapon IMO. I would have persuaded the person to leave verbally AFTER calling 911 and staying on the line for recorded confirmation that I gave three stern verbal warnings, then and only then would I have used any force.

as always, it's easier said when it's not happening to you. As a legal, law abiding and heavily armed citizen, I have always stood by the fact anyone who takes the massive responsibility of carrying/possessing firearms should also fully understand the legal ramifications of doing so and also the position you have put yourself in when you have decided that you, as an individual have good enough judgment on the fly to make a well informed decision that could essentially save a yours or a loved one's life.. or also potentially destroy it.

It's hard to have much verbal leverage on such topics as people can't look past metal in one's face or the hair on their head. I take extra care to deep conceal when I carry simply for the fact that if I were 40 year old John Smith in Safeway buying groceries for the family and I saw someone who looks like me with a Kimber printing on the small of his back I wouldnt think to myself "Oh, that guy is probably just a CCW holder.. no biggie" I would definitely think "this kid has a gun, I'm calling the cops."

I can speak to that in a truth where I printed while bending over to grab a 50 pound bag of dog food and got kicked to the ground by a "concerned father".

[/Rant]

cardiver wrote:

Jeff Pack wrote:

SeanKylgod wrote:this IS a castle clause state.. my 10mm G20 would have been outta the question as my EDC is my .40cal G23 and my Glock 20 is next to my Sig on my night-stand.. two feet from my PS90 and Spas 12 ;-)

cardiver wrote:

Jeff Pack wrote:Too bad you didnt catch him.

Its a problem easily solved with 50pds of lime and shovel

What I should have done is let him gain entry and then double tap him with 10mm's........

You are right as for Castle Clause, but you are wrong in how its acknowledged. Just reaching in is not grounds for use of deadly force under the Castle Doctrine. I wont go into the details, its public searchable. Every gun owner should understand it, and realize that Wa state is not your friend in the enforcement of it.

But for a no worries, problem taken care of, the lime and shovel avoids the legal stuff entirely.
(and future law suits, etc).

We like the same firearms! I fell in love with the Spas 12 at the FBI Academy SWAT school back in 1986 and switched from a 1911 Gold Cup to a Glock in 1989.....
I keep trying to explain to friends that using deadly force in the situation that I had would not be justified. If he had gained entry I would have put him down but as it was he just broke the door......

Jeff Pack wrote:Too bad you didnt catch him.

Its a problem easily solved with 50pds of lime and shovel

You got some kind of Dexter thing going there, Jeff????

dwashbur wrote:

Jeff Pack wrote:Too bad you didnt catch him.

Its a problem easily solved with 50pds of lime and shovel

You got some kind of Dexter thing going there, Jeff????

Funny, but in a sort of way, I was back in those days depending how you looked at what I did back then.

But as for today, the legal ramifications of using a weapon are so vast, I find myself falling back into that old adage

"dead men tell no tales". Because nowadays, even if you were 100% justified, you'll wind up with a victims family, many times the government, all legally after you.

But if the bad person just disappears... well, too bad, so sad. Problem solved.

They will be testing your Castle theory in La Center,Wa ....homeowner shot and killed a car thief last week.

SeanKylgod wrote:I can speak to that in a truth where I printed while bending over to grab a 50 pound bag of dog food and got kicked to the ground by a "concerned father".

Nice, did you fight back, calmly ask him WTF he was doing, or something in between?

Sorry about your door Ron, was this in Enumclaw during the day?

when I fell, I tried grabbing out for balance and managed to grab hold of one of the pooper scoopers that was hanging from the shelf on display.. I openly admit that once I landed I chucked it at his head and called him a few choice words.. haha. He had already called the cops so once they got there, they asked what happened, asked the guy if I was brandishing my weapon or if my shirt just slid up like I had said. He told the truth and the cop asked if I wanted to press charges for him kicking me. I said no, "the rest of the A-Team will miss his heroic actions". the cop giggle-snorted and I left.

CaptnJack wrote:

SeanKylgod wrote:I can speak to that in a truth where I printed while bending over to grab a 50 pound bag of dog food and got kicked to the ground by a "concerned father".

Nice, did you fight back, calmly ask him WTF he was doing, or something in between?

Sorry about your door Ron, was this in Enumclaw during the day?

Yep. Happened at 1345 while I was sitting in my office doing some work. Door bell rang and I didn't answer it because the only people door knocking during the day are selling vacuums or religion. Neither of which I'm interested in. AFter he rang the bell he knocked really hard on the door and then silence. A couple of minutes later the side door in my garage was being kicked in.....

cardiver wrote:Yep. Happened at 1345 while I was sitting in my office doing some work. Door bell rang and I didn't answer it because the only people door knocking during the day are selling vacuums or religion. Neither of which I'm interested in. AFter he rang the bell he knocked really hard on the door and then silence. A couple of minutes later the side door in my garage was being kicked in.....

Ahhh so its your fault for not barking like a pit bull!

Yep......

You know instead of fantasizing about killing the kid who tried to do this, you could have cameras covering your doorways and windows and that would both be a deterrent, and since the kid is probably known to law enforcement if you got a good enough pic of him they could do something about it. If nothing was stolen and it was only damage to the doorframe its likely not going to provide a lot of legal satisfaction for you, but had you actually not been home -- and therefore not able to unload your home arsenal in his general direction -- you'd be able to get him for a felony if he took off with enough expensive gear (including the aforementioned home arsenal) and you'd stand a chance of recovering the stolen items.

For bonus points set up some kind of motion detection system that pages you so that if you're at work you can monitor your cameras remotely and send the cops to your home if there is a break-in actually in progress and then they can arrest the guys (and take care of the trained use of lethal force if necessary for you).

lamont wrote:You know...

+1

airsix wrote:

lamont wrote:You know...

+1

airsix wrote:

lamont wrote:You know...

+1

You know... if for whatever reason you felt you needed to shoot him, why couldn't you have just shot him in the leg or something?

Sounder wrote:

airsix wrote:

lamont wrote:You know...

+1

You know... if for whatever reason you felt you needed to shoot him, why couldn't you have just shot him in the leg or something?

I don't think that I could even aim at a leg! Every bit of training I've ever had with a firearm was a double tap, center mass........ Or one shot to the obdulla oblongata.

cardiver wrote:

Sounder wrote:

airsix wrote:

lamont wrote:You know...

+1

You know... if for whatever reason you felt you needed to shoot him, why couldn't you have just shot him in the leg or something?

I don't think that I could even aim at a leg! Every bit of training I've ever had with a firearm was a double tap, center mass........ Or one shot to the obdulla oblongata.

What about just doing a warning shot to teach him a lesson?

Doug, it's a good thing I know you so well. You forgot to use the sarcasm font.

airsix wrote:Doug, it's a good thing I know you so well. You forgot to use the sarcasm font.

Well, you know...

I'm glad you are okay Ron and you don't have to deal with all of the other legal stuff that goes along with the double tap thing.
This guy had no idea how lucky he was.
I wouldn't mess with you, or your house!

Forget the legal stuff. I would take a life to save a potential victim (self or others) from potentially deadly assault, but it would probably destroy me emotionally. I'm glad the perp didn't put Ron in a situation to bear that burden.

airsix wrote:Forget the legal stuff. I would take a life to save a potential victim (self or others) from potentially deadly assault, but it would probably destroy me emotionally. I'm glad the perp didn't put Ron in a situation to bear that burden.

:luv:

CaptnJack wrote:

airsix wrote:Forget the legal stuff. I would take a life to save a potential victim (self or others) from potentially deadly assault, but it would probably destroy me emotionally. I'm glad the perp didn't put Ron in a situation to bear that burden.

:luv:

So is Ron......... I'm fine with him seeing me and fleeing the scene.
I just hope that the knucklehead has some common sense and doesn't try again.

Well if anything the ole "Dude, when breaking into a house, first ring the doorbell, then knock, and then knock LOUDLY, and if noone answers then you are clear to enter and steal." philosophy has been shot to hell. He can pass that onto his thieving homies.

Norris wrote:Well if anything the ole "Dude, when breaking into a house, first ring the doorbell, then knock, and then knock LOUDLY, and if noone answers then you are clear to enter and steal." philosophy has been shot to hell. He can pass that onto his thieving homies.

Definitely! I really wish I could have seen the look of surprise on his face when I came flying out into my garage.

Well I dont know about you but as the guy was forcing his way into the garage HE accidently discharged the SPEAR GUN for which was hanging next to the door.

Just glad to hear that you and your kids are OK and maybe your next purchase should be a security camera. At least you would have pictures of the vehicle and guy for the police. I keep putting getting one off myself but this seems to make it a wise choice. That and hand gun ownership