The Bottle Thread

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Tom Nic
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Tom Nic » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:49 am

Dive Monkey wrote:Hey David
Thanks for the quick repley! One thing i have noticed is many of the bottles we find are not worth a whole lot. Most of the bottles I come acrosss can be found on ebay for two or three dollars Which is fine by me. Im not in it for money. I just like getting to learn about some of the history behind them. But i am curious as to what would be an example of something we might find in NW waters that would be of value.
Thanks
Eric


Great question! I share your sentiment
Dive Monkey wrote: Im not in it for money.
and your curiosity.
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Dive Monkey » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:23 am

Hey David
Thanks for the quick repley! One thing i have noticed is many of the bottles we find are not worth a whole lot. Most of the bottles I come acrosss can be found on ebay for two or three dollars Which is fine by me. Im not in it for money. I just like getting to learn about some of the history behind them. But i am curious as to what would be an example of something we might find in NW waters that would be of value.
Thanks
Eric

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:23 pm

Hi Buck Naked!

1. Your Cammarano Bros bottle is an example of the classic 1920's-early 1930's Deco style soda bottle, in clear glass, crown top machine made. All sorts of weird shapes were made for the soda bottlers of that time period, J G Fox of Seattle, some of the oddball Coca Cola flavor bottles, and other bottlers all over the USA used unusually shaped soda bottles during this time period. James Cammarano was proprietor the the Enumclaw (WA) Bottling Works in the late teens early 1920's. By 1923, Phillip, James, and William Cammarano owned and operated the Whistle Bottling Works in Tacoma. In 1928, they began operations as the Cammarano Brothers, and incorporated under that name in 1934. The company continued in business for decades, I believe they are still in business under some other corporate name in the Puget Sound area.

2. Your dark green bottle is a from Trieste, Italy, and held beer. Looks like it is a nice attractive yellowish amber color, with good embossing. Again, not a ton of value but a neat early import beer.

3. The Kreielsheimer Bros Crown Diamonds whiskey is a decent bottle. Your example is an amber glass, hand blown tooled top bottle. I've had a few for sale in past years, and they are a decent and desired bottle, not rare, but not common either. The Kreielsheimer Brothers (Simon, Jacob, and Max) began business in Seattle, Washington Territory, in 1887. They put out some early clear glass embossed whiskey fifths, followed later by the amber bottles (ca late 1890's-1909), of which there are several varients. Kreielsheimer Bros went out of business in 1909.

David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:05 pm

Hi Dive Monkey! Your neat greenish amber bottle is the classic Japanese Beer or Sake bottle, with both English and Japanese characters embossed. It most likely dates from the late teens to late 1920's, and looks like a crown top bottle. With the sea commerce between Asia and the Western United States, I am not surprised that you found this one underwater! I have dug similar bottles at a Chinese Boarding House site near the old Pacific American Fisheries Cannery in Bellingham WA., where their bunkhouse used to sit. Not much value, but for sure a historic bottle.

And a note about black glass... black glass DOES NOT pass light, it is really dark, and could be a very dark green, amber, or even purple color. Your color is more of a dark olive amber, but since it does pass light fairly well, would not be considered black glass.

David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by bucknaked » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:17 am

aND HERE IS ONE MORE Thanks Matt
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by bucknaked » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 am

next is a green glass beer bottle.Reads S.A. BIRRA-DREHER
TRIESTE.
BIRRA-ESPORTAZIONE
iT STANDS 11IN TALL BY 3IN WIDE
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AND IS THIS THE SAMPLE BOTTLE OF VASILINE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by bucknaked » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:06 am

First up is a paridise club bottle I have not been able to find any info on it at all. 8 1/2 by 2 across says paridise club has pic of Mount rainer?Says Cammarano brothers tacomma Registered and as a squrare with what looks like a p?g in it there is also a 1 on gthe bottom.The bottle has a slight amber tint to it.it is a crown top.i have three othetres dating to the 60s &0s as the bottles proggered thpough the years but no info on them at all.
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by renoun » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:16 am

thebottlevault wrote:Hi BuckNaked! Your Buckeye Extract Company is a very common bottle. I've dug probably 100 or more of these while digging bottles here in Western Washington, and have even found them as far away as Montana! The quantity of these bottles out there indicate that the company was very successful. They put out primarily a line of extracts, such as Vanilla Extract, Lemon Flavor, and other food colorings, flavors and spices.

I have heard that during prohibition there was quite a trade in flavored cooking extracts. People were known to buy several bottles a month. That might have something to do with how common they are.
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Dive Monkey » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:59 pm

I have one i can not find much information on. On the bottom it reads ANGLO JAPANESE BREWERY COMPANY LTD TOKYO. On top it reads Trade Mark with a circular logo between trade & mark. It is what i think to be black glass which looks olive in the light. This bottle is 11 1/4" tall
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:36 pm

Hi Buck! A couple of neat bottles you have, both are from very successful companies and hence are quite common but cool!

1. The Red Top Rye was put out by Ferdinand Westheimer. At the young age of 34, Ferdinand arrived in Saint Joseph in early 1859 on the just complete Hannibal & St. Joseph Railway. An immigrant from Germany, he had early success in the mercantile business. By 1870, he had dissolved his mercantile business and branched out into wholesale liquor distribution. By the turn of the century he was among Saint Joseph’s long list of millionaires. Branch operations were started in other Midwestern cities. He and his wife, Sarah, raised eight sons. As a note of interest... "Big Brothers" was started by Irvin Ferdinand Westheimer, the last son of Ferdinand Westheimer & Sarah Flarsheim. These bottles, while common, are still somewhat desirable as they are an impressive looking old whiskey! You example dates from about 1900-1905.

2. The Chesebrough Manufacturing Company was founded by Robert Chesebrough. He was an oilman, interested in the petroleum discovery at Colonel Drake's well in Titusville, PA. (By the way, I've been to Titusville on a bottle digging trip, and found some great bottles back to the pontil era 1850's. The Oil Mansions built by early oilmen in Titusville are huge and gorgeous to see!) Back to the story... Chesebrough began selling Vaseline Petroleum Jelly in 1870 and patented the process in 1872. Wholesale and retail druggists were largely disinterested in it and sales were slow until he began sending out employees with carts to hand out free samples to housewives and doctors. Good sales followed the sample distribution and Chesebrough established the Chesebrough Manufacturing Company in 1874 to handle production. By 1894 Vaseline was being distributed nationwide by arrangement with Colgate & Company. International sales followed soon afterwards and Vaseline Petroleum Jelly was soon on its way to becoming a global household staple.

Your bottle is one of the earliest Vaseline / Chesebrough Mfg examples, probably dating from the 1880's to early 1890's period. They are much more commonly found in the screw top version, which are pretty much everywhere. Your example is definitely a keeper, not worth much at all, but a very historic early example!

David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by bucknaked » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:41 pm

The vasiline say chestbrug vasiline manufacting co it is 4.5*2.5 the other say red top rye on it
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:20 am

Hi BuckNaked! Your Buckeye Extract Company is a very common bottle. I've dug probably 100 or more of these while digging bottles here in Western Washington, and have even found them as far away as Montana! The quantity of these bottles out there indicate that the company was very successful. They put out primarily a line of extracts, such as Vanilla Extract, Lemon Flavor, and other food colorings, flavors and spices. I've also seen a couple of original labeled bottles that indicate they sold a small line of patent medicine type products.

These bottles exist is sizes from 1 ounce all the way up to 32 ounces in size. The big ones are very impressive and probably the most valuable of the Buckeye bottles. I've dug about 3 different styles of the Buckeye Extract bottles, your style as shown in the pics was their last style of embossed bottles, and dates from about 1910-1918. It is hand blown with tooled top. The Buckeye Extract Company was founded in Olympia WA in 1903, by J. B. Stentz, who came to Olympia from Ohio. The company remained in business at least into the 1920's and was located at 207-211 Main Street. Hope this is of help and thanks for the post!

David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Tom Nic » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:12 am

thebottlevault wrote:Hi Tom, I suspect the "31" is the mold number, and the "2" is a partial date code, making production of this bottle sometime after 1922 but still in the 1920's. I am doing a bit of research on the shoulder embossing. I've seen your bottle before but can't remember offhand which bottler those markings represent. - David


Thanks David. The complete embossed letters on the shoulder are "REGISTERED PATENTED MAR 7 1922"
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:09 am

Hi Tom, I suspect the "31" is the mold number, and the "2" is a partial date code, making production of this bottle sometime after 1922 but still in the 1920's. I am doing a bit of research on the shoulder embossing. I've seen your bottle before but can't remember offhand which bottler those markings represent. - David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Tom Nic » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:04 am

Thank you David.

Just got it back from being cleaned. It is a pretty cool bottle...

Looking at the bottom of the bottle with "Seattle" on top there is a "31" on the left side and what appears to be a "2" on the right hand side. Would the 31 be the year it was produced?

The embossed writing along the bottom of the bottle is "COCA-COLA BOTTLING DIST. CO. CONT. 6 1/2 FL. OZS"

The logo is interesting to me as well, with the wheat and stylized letter(s) that I don't quite get.

Thanks again.
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by bucknaked » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:02 am

A couple of bottles one says buckeye Co
Olympia wash.mesures 2.5*4.5
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:36 am

Hi Tom, thanks for the good pics and post! You have one of the many "Deco" styles of 1920's Coca Cola bottles used around the United States, about 5 years before the vast majority of Coca Cola bottlers were finally able to fully adapt the classic "Hobbleskirt" Coca Cola bottle that was originally patented in 1915. And of course we all know that Coca Cola was formulated in Georgia in 1886, with the first sales as a health drink occurring at Jacobs Pharmacy in Atlanta GA in May of 1886. Your Deco style bottle probably did NOT hold Coca-Cola, as that product was reserved for the standard Hobbleskirt bottles. Many Coca Cola bottlers produced other beverages, like Orange Soda and other flavored sodas, and that was most likely what was in your bottle, along with an attractive paper label to show off the product.

The Seattle Coca Cola Bottling Company traces it's beginnings back to 1906, when a franchise was opened with John M Crain as manager. There are early Coca Cola bottles that date from this time period, hand blown, aqua glass, crown top (bottle cap) closure. They are embossed on the shoulder and heel of the bottle, or on the body of the bottle "Coca-Cola Co. / Seattle, Wash." I don't think the early owners of this company realized what a potential gold mine they had, as the franchise seemed to change hands every year or so in the early days. Finally, in 1915, a prominent Seattle bottle, J G Fox, acquired the Coca Cola franchise and I suspect your bottle is from his years of operation. He was very innovative with unusual bottles and all sorts of oddball siphons, trademarks, labels, etc etc. Mr Fox retained the Coca Cola franchise in Seattle until 1923. In 1924, the Coca Cola Bottling Co of Seattle was purchased by Benjamin Thomas and George T. Hunter, who formed the Pacific Coast Coca Cola Bottling Co. This business remained intact for many decades and was very successful, the true forerunner of the modern Coca Cola operations in the Seattle area. The present plant is actually in Bellevue, and has franchises all around the Puget Sound area.

Hope this is of help, and thanks for the posting!

David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Tom Nic » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:21 pm

I found this old straight sided Coca Cola bottle yesterday. The process of searching for info on my phone was pretty frustrating, so I will post here. The initial cleaning is almost done, but these pics were taken at the dive site.

There was a patent date of 1922 on the bottle, but unfortunately I didn't take a picture of that. I can post it later if our bottle expert can't ID it from the pics below.

Thanks again for your time in doing this thread!

Image

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Scubie Doo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:56 pm

thebottlevault wrote:Hi Scubie Doo! Yours is an older bottle, dating from the 1890's -1900, hand blown in a mold. It is a food bottle, most likely peppersauce, relish, etc. I've dug these before, they are fairly common, no real value, but still a cool diving find. I like the water wash and light iridescence in the bottle!


Awesome stuff! :notworthy:

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Hi Dusty 2, you are correct, but you can actually break down the dating of the bottle a bit more. Generally speaking, if the mold lines fade out before the top of the bottle, then the bottle has been blown into a mold, usually by a glassblower. On most bottles dating from the late 1880's and OLDER, the bottle's top is actually APPLIED to the top of the neck, with a separate small amount of glass, then shaped into the correct form. You can tell because the hot glass will drip or run down the neck a bit, and hence the correct terms "Applied Top" or "Gloppy Top." Beginning in the 1880's (there is some overlap between the methods), the top of the bottle was "TOOLED" from the glass ALREADY there in the neck, hence the correct term "Tooled Top." Both methods used are indications of a hand blown bottle.

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Dusty2 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:01 pm

thebottlevault wrote:Hi Scubie Doo! Yours is an older bottle, dating from the 1890's -1900, hand blown in a mold. It is a food bottle, most likely peppersauce, relish, etc. I've dug these before, they are fairly common, no real value, but still a cool diving find. I like the water wash and light iridescence in the bottle!


An additional bit of info to help you bottle jockeys judge the age of your bottles. The seams on the sides of the bottle tell you that it is blown into a mold and the lack of seems on the crown tell you it has a hand applied crown which means that it was added by hand after the bottle was blown this is how the date was determined. I am by far no expert these are just things my bottle addict dive buddy has taught me about the bottles he finds.

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by KneeDeep » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:48 pm

My Lord, what a wealth of info you are David!!!!
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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi Scubie Doo! Yours is an older bottle, dating from the 1890's -1900, hand blown in a mold. It is a food bottle, most likely peppersauce, relish, etc. I've dug these before, they are fairly common, no real value, but still a cool diving find. I like the water wash and light iridescence in the bottle!

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by thebottlevault » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Chris, you bottles date from the 1930's -1940's. Here is some info...

1. The clear bottle is a food / relish / sauce bottle, looks like a screw top or modified cap top. The "H/A" marking on the underside of the base represents the Hazel-Atlas Glass Co., one of the largest producers of food bottles, cosmetics, and fruit jars in the USA.
2. The second bottle, amber glass, looks like a tab top medicine or perhaps poison bottle. Also has the "HA" marking on the underside of the base.
3. The green bottle is indeed a liquor bottle. Has the "Federal Law Prohibits Resale etc etc" on the shoulder of the bottle. I believe the ARROYO P. R. stands for Arroyo Puerto Rico, so perhaps this one was a wine or rum bottle.
Nothing rare or valuable but still cool!

David

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Re: The Bottle Thread

Post by Scubie Doo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:43 pm

Found at the Tacoma waterfront with Matt several weeks ago. There are no markings and I have no clue what to photograph for you :-) I found it at about 40'. Dimensions are 2-5/16" x 1-9/16" x 7-11/16"

Any history would be very much appreciated.
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