Octo Harvesting: A question

[Waynne Fowler]

After spending some time in the reg's. I'm didn't see anything pertaining to 'HOW' you are to kill your prey.

I saw that your not allowed to puncture the creature, nor are you allowed to use chemicals to get them out of a den and several other 'don'ts'.
I'm assuming that you must take them physically and then by hand destroy them.
As a kid I remember participating in the hunts but I don't remember ever seeing anyone use a weapon. However, I don't recall them bludgeoning them with fists either.
I'm thinking I must have missed something. If I didn't then It seems to me there has to be a better way, or perhaps the thought is that by participating so ruthlessly one would be less inclined to take an octo in the first place. Or they may have been hoping that bugger would drown a few would be hunters before others got the message?

I hope someone has an answer to the question

[Emilyrc]

If I recall, the brain sits between their eyes. I thinks its most humane to neutralize the brain.

[Don-B]

I am not an expert so this is my thoughts.
When your fishing you can not use a gaff to land you fish(puncture) .Nets are ok.
Once in the boat you may kill the fish with a knife ( puncture ).
What i'm thinking with octos is you can not puncture them under water. but once our out its ok.
The thought is you don't want to wound one under water and not harvest it.

[renoun]

The handful of times I have harvested octopus in Mexico and Alaska I just kept them in a bucket and cleaned them as soon as I could. I didn't see any reason to beat them or stab them. I can't imagine that the GPO that started this recent controversy was very palatable, once octopus grow beyond a couple of pounds they become very tough to chew.

[kdupreez]

I'm also guessing once its topside, you can use a knife between the eyes.

a gpo is huge, so it going to take a bit of work to kill it.

they have 3 hearts and 9 brains.. and blue blood!! (really!)

learnt all this on the NOAA site, pretty cool.

[fishb0y]

While hunting them in Hawaii, the quickest way to dispatch them was to flip their mantel... The other way was to literally bite the tako between the eyes (the 'experienced' locals seemed to prefer that way). Mind you, the biggest I got when I lived there was 10#, I wouldn't think of wrestling the giants we have up here.

[Waynne Fowler]

While hunting them in Hawaii, the quickest way to dispatch them was to flip their mantel... The other way was to literally bite the tako between the eyes (the 'experienced' locals seemed to prefer that way). Mind you, the biggest I got when I lived there was 10#, I wouldn't think of wrestling the giants we have up here.

Thanks for the responses folks.

[renoun]

I suppose folks should also know that around here octopus are probably most often taken as by-catch in shrimp pots and crab pots.

[ljjames]

I suppose folks should also know that around here octopus are probably most often taken as by-catch in shrimp pots and crab pots.

From Shellfish and Seaweed harvest in puget sound (c 1986)

http://nsgl.gso.uri.edu/washu/washub860 ... _part3.pdf

about half way through

[pensacoladiver]

After spending some time in the reg's. I'm didn't see anything pertaining to 'HOW' you are to kill your prey.

I saw that your not allowed to puncture the creature, nor are you allowed to use chemicals to get them out of a den and several other 'don'ts'.
I'm assuming that you must take them physically and then by hand destroy them.
As a kid I remember participating in the hunts but I don't remember ever seeing anyone use a weapon. However, I don't recall them bludgeoning them with fists either.
I'm thinking I must have missed something. If I didn't then It seems to me there has to be a better way, or perhaps the thought is that by participating so ruthlessly one would be less inclined to take an octo in the first place. Or they may have been hoping that bugger would drown a few would be hunters before others got the message?

I hope someone has an answer to the question

Joking or not, I seriously doubt the law (or lack of) was written with the "hopes" of drowning divers. That thought is way beyond morbid.

[Waynne Fowler]

After spending some time in the reg's. I'm didn't see anything pertaining to 'HOW' you are to kill your prey.

I saw that your not allowed to puncture the creature, nor are you allowed to use chemicals to get them out of a den and several other 'don'ts'.
I'm assuming that you must take them physically and then by hand destroy them.
As a kid I remember participating in the hunts but I don't remember ever seeing anyone use a weapon. However, I don't recall them bludgeoning them with fists either.
I'm thinking I must have missed something. If I didn't then It seems to me there has to be a better way, or perhaps the thought is that by participating so ruthlessly one would be less inclined to take an octo in the first place. Or they may have been hoping that bugger would drown a few would be hunters before others got the message?

I hope someone has an answer to the question

Joking or not, I seriously doubt the law (or lack of) was written with the "hopes" of drowning divers. That thought is way beyond morbid.

It was a joke Pen... and yes after you say that and quote it, it does seem rather callously morbid... far more so then when I penned it... it was meant to juxtapose an already morbid question.... FAIL!. my apologies to you any anyone else who that finds that offensive...
I'm usually not one to change my post to get myself out of hot water.. but if you or anyone else wish it removed I will do so.
again Pen... sorry for my apparent callousness.

It is however really a question I'm interested in as I can't imagine that there is not a more expeditious means of terminating the creature without causing undue stress and pain to them. The thought of having to drag it to the surface (a task that must take several minutes) get out the knife (imagine this one as a single diver) find the eye's and do your deed.

Frankly the way it seems one must dispatch the properly harvested creature freaks me out, the thought of wrestling the animal to the surface while it struggles. Knowing that they use oxygen rather quickly and realizing how intelligent they are I can't help but imagine the animal realizes it is going to be killed. I know that they live minute by minute in that 'hunt/be hunted" mode or 'mind set' if you will. Which IMHO would leave me wanting to put the creature out rather quickly with as little time wasted as possible.

Sorry again Pen.

[pensacoladiver]

No worries amigo. You have always seemed very level headed to me and just proved it again.

I know this is a hot and emotional topic.

[eliseaboo]

I imagine the rules were written to prevent octopus from being injured and escaping their hunter, only to die soon after. They are very "fluid" creatures, and can squeeze into something as small as their beak (roughly the size of their eye) so it is not unthinkable that one could lose an arm, suffer a fatal puncture in the mantle, or incur some other injury, only to slip into the nearest tiny crevice. Spearing (or similar) them in their dens poses a similar problem, or the hunter may be unable to pull the octopus from its den once on the spear. The rules for octopus harvest are fairly standard throughout the US I believe, and are written in such a way that octopus have a VERY fighting chance -- ever tried to catch an octopus?? They're fast and crafty creatures!

[fishb0y]

Since I only have experience hunting octos in Hawaii, there the hunter is allowed to use a spear coax the octo out of the hole. The octo usually crawls out of the hole where it is then caught and quickly dispatched as I described before. Personally, I think that is a much more humane way, but again, those tako are MUCH smaller and easier to handle. The attached video is pretty good, but don't watch if octo hunting upsets you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kczIrMwp ... re=related

Disclaimer:I am totally against the incident last week, however I am a proponent of RESPONSIBLE octo hunting. If you would like to talk about it more, feel free to PM me. I am not trying to start more drama.

[spatman]

I am trying to start more drama.

I think you meant to say "not trying"?

[fishb0y]

Yeah... Just fixed that

[Waynne Fowler]

Thanks again everyone for your considerate responses to this hard to ask question.
I was really interested in finding out the mindset that drove the regulation makers in defining how an octo can be taken. You've all helped out a great deal.

[pensacoladiver]

I would think the regulation makers would be most concerned with not "hurting" the octo underwater when there is a chance it could escape injured and then die. That is essentially a waste... but not entirely, because even a dead octopus in the ocean will feed other animals. The ocean is vey good at taking care of itself.

That being said, even with hook and line fishing, the death of a fish CAN be disturbing if you think about it too much. DISCLAIMER... I am not a marine biologist, so this is my laymans terms perspective. When a fish is caught hook and line and put in the ice cooler, it essentially suffocates... at least thats my take on it.

There are certain people in this world that the above thought will drive crazy. They are absolutely entitled to their opinions and thoughts.

I doubt anyone will EVER be able to regulate how an octopus is killed in the water. There obviously can be regulations as to how they CANT be killed.

IMO,it gets down to education of the hunters. Good/smart hunters kill their prey as soon as they can, for the simple reason that dead prey does not escape nor does it fight back.