Introduction

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:07 pm

Hi, I am John, I moved to seattle recently (well not so recently) from Southern California. I am finally back in a position where I can possibly dive again (I had some chronic inner ear problems not related to diving). And am hoping to get wet well as soon as I am properly geared up again, and Naui issues me a replacement card (I am pretty sure mine was sold).

Sold? You say. Well I stowed my gear with my dad when I moved up here, because I didn't have the room initially to bring it up. He promptly sold it at one of his infamous garage sales, he sold my precious doubles, my reg, apparently including my card and log-book-- everything important. (he also sold my laser printer!) I knew I was taking a risk, but I didn't have room to take it with me.

Anyhow, my doc gave me the thumbs up for diving (and flying) again, and one of my best friends just got his cert and is desperate for a buddy. So I am all over it.

The only problem being NAUI, can't seem to find record of my certification yet. I was certified in '87 when I was in high-school (for credit, in place of regular PE) and apparently they keep those records on paper.

I have around 225-250 dives, I don't recall the number (I don't recall my current phone number). Mostly surf entry, in so cal, although I did some boat diving down there, and up in BC just a few years ago. I had some really good buddies down there, one of which was my dive instructor, and got to do a lot of interesting things with them. Diving is certainly one of the things (like other process and safety oriented hobbies) shaped who I am today. It's a good thing.

I am a pre-internets diver, I never really thought about connecting the communications capacity of the web to the finding of buddies and getting of information. But I am here now.

I am looking to gear up simply, and cheaply. I am not making piles of cash at the moment, so I am going to have to dive on a budget.

That's nothing new, as a high-schooler I had to dive on a budget, ALL my gear was used except my wetsuit. I dove a mixed US divers reg (OLD!), a u-back BCD, on a SS backplate, semi-simple webbing, and twin LP70's I got for a song. Nothing fancy, nothing complicated.

I have been reading up a lot on DIR, and although I agree with a lot of their principals, I don't think you will find me drinking the DIR koolaid, I will take a lot of what they offer and integrate it in as it pleases me. Actually a lot of my old gear was very DIR in nature. I spent a lot of time getting my gear "just right" in terms of MY desired functionality. They would frown upon some of my kit decisions (I used SS aircraft seat-buckles rather than the traditional webbing buckles), but that's why I am not planning on being DIR.

I have the old NAUI OW2 cert, which I guess is now a Advanced. (I really haven't kept up.) I was taking classes for "advanced" which is now "master" when my inner ear problem first raised it's ugly head, and never finished those as a result.

jeff98208 · Post by **jeff98208** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:54 pm

welcome john. and good to hear that the inner ear problem has been put back at bay. later!
jeff

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:35 pm

Welcome to our little group. You'll find no shortage of buddies and resources. Sucks to hear about your gear, but there is always plenty of used gear floating around to get you set up.

As you have gear questions, do a search for particular subjects in the archive and you will probably find more information than you care to have. Other than that, start posting and feel free to chime right in!

Looking forward to meeting you.

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:41 pm

jeff98208 wrote:welcome john. and good to hear that the inner ear problem has been put back at bay.

Well, it's not so much been handled, so much as acclimated to. The underlying cause of the problem (chronic inner ear infections,) went away as soon as I moved up here, from LA where everything is brown, including the air. I hated LA for many reasons, but two of the biggies were the climate and the pollution. I start sweating when it's over 60 deg f.

I can add degrading my hearing and balance to the list.

I just hope the naui people are going to send me a replacement card. My impression is their pre-computer filing system isn't so good, based on a phone conversation with them.

Of course, I am not much better, I should have computerized my dive logs from day one, (apparently unlike naui), I had a computer (several in fact,) in 1987.

Anyone had experience getting a replacement card (without logs) for a certification in the 80's in the 2000's?

The only pieces of information I could remember off hand was the name of my dive instructor and that it was in the fall of 86 or early 87 when I was issued my card. I had logs for that type of stuff, since I have a memory like swiss cheese for stuff like that.

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:42 pm

Welcome John,

Interesting avatar.. Is that a self portrait?

Hope to see you in the water soon!

Holly

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm

Sounder wrote:Welcome to our little group. You'll find no shortage of buddies and resources. Sucks to hear about your gear, but there is always plenty of used gear floating around to get you set up.

I knew I was taking a huge risk when I left it with him. I was moving up here for a job that didn't go through, and thought I would be finally able to upgrade. The only thing I really miss is the wet suit, it was a custom fit, and it fit perfectly. The doubles were sweet, and they will be a pretty penny to replace but they can be replaced, with a modern setup with a isolation valve.

As you have gear questions, do a search for particular subjects in the archive and you will probably find more information than you care to have. Other than that, start posting and feel free to chime right in!

Yeah, I do have a more than a few, like do I really need a dry suit? I survived diving BC in a wet-suit, although I definitely got a chill from it. I have dove dry suits a number of times, but I was rarely "dry" in the dry suit, but then again, I was diving other peoples dry suits which were trimmed for them, and maintained by them.

I have a ton of questions about the current options for setting up twins, including going with redundant first-stages and a isolation valve. And about tanks in general. I know precisely what I want in a back-plate, harness and BCD, just a slightly modernized version of what I had. I loved my back-plate, I have never understood the attraction of the vest-type BCD's, because my personal experience with them (compared to a back plate) was less than impressive. I don't think they trim well, I think they are bulky, and they add a lot of drag and clutter.

Actually that also points out I have some questions about weight. Integrated weights were as I recall a new-fangled thing when I learned to dive. I always dove with a weight belt that trimmed me and my wet-suit, and then trimmed the back-plate for the BCD and tanks. I am thinking about integrating all the weights into the BCD belt and back plate, and will want to investigate the pros and cons of that.

I am a bigger guy, 6'3", 275lbs, supposedly not HWP, but more or less HWP. So my only real concern right now is finding a wet-suit or drysuit that fits and fits comfortably. Everything else can be had easily enough in my size or one-size fits all. BTW, I still have my fins, gloves, mask and snorkel, my boots were sold, I have the boots I had when I first learned to dive, but they are too small for me now, because I wasn't fully grown when I learned to dive. I started diving when I was 16.

I think I know what I want in terms of regs, the question is will I buy new or will I start off with something used again. If I buy used, I will have questions because I don't know what has transpired in the market in the last 20 years. I am one of those people who buys their gear, and uses it until they have to replace it. So I have ignored the market for the last 20 years.

I will ask my questions on the appropriate forums, I am just inventorying my thoughts since I have enough thoughts and questions to inventory. Otherwise they will just go away in a puff of logic, and I will forget what I need to ask about in the future.

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:06 pm

GillyWeed wrote:Interesting avatar.. Is that a self portrait?

Yep, done on a post-it. Helps me remember what I look like. Use it for all my on-line stuff. Don't do much forum stuff, I am more a email guy. I don't like having to remember URL's and passwords and forums. I got a mind like a corse sieve.

I have work to get done, and chatting up the internets is not helping. Got to run.

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:27 pm

GillyWeed wrote:Interesting avatar.. Is that a self portrait?

I am back, I got the pseudo-work, pseudo-done.

So, is that your self-portrait?

Some how I think not.

Nifty, none-the-less.

I mentioned it in another section/form (regarding the recent fatal diving accident in the area,) That I while I am without a card and gear, and have piles of free time (I am unemployed at the moment) I am willing to shore buddy for folks who are diving, as I already have for one friend who is a diver in the area already.

That reminds me, I need to ask Matt what his user name is here.

It helps me get to know the divers in the area, and the dive spots, and it helps you in that you have an extra body to help lug gear, and gear up, and the safety margin of having an informed (of the dive plan) observer on the shore, with a phone, in case something goes wrong, which can save precious minutes if something goes wrong.

Matt S. · Post by **Matt S.** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:07 pm

John was shore-buddy (sherpa?) for Penelope and I when we went to Harper's Ferry a while back.

I have known John for... 15 years? And I have never seen him on a message board. He was an old coot when he was still young.

This is a truly shocking day for me.

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:12 pm

Matt S. wrote:John was shore-buddy (sherpa?) for Penelope and I when we went to Harper's Ferry a while back.

I have known John for... 15 years? And I have never seen him on a message board. He was an old coot when he was still young.

This is a truly shocking day for me.

I am on another forum for another expensive and potentially dangerous recreational activity as well, but I mostly just lurk there.

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:27 am

Welcome to the club John!
You may be interested in the big "Underwater Sports" sale at the end of July! in seattle. There is some great deals there!
Craigslist is also a good place to find gear.
I would say a Dry suit is a must have if you want to do multiple dives or just stay with a wet suit and always bring a cooler of hot water to the dive site with you. That works pretty good around here.
Hope to meet you soon!

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:13 am

I hate to say this, but GOOD LUCK getting a card that 'old' from NAUI... They have a hard time keeping track of this years' stuff... My friend was trying to get a card from PADI, that was around the same time frame, they sent him someone elses card... Not even close to his name. Strange. Prolly the best thing to do would be to sign up for an advanced class (if you have some form of proof from diving before) and discuss it with the instructor. That way, you get a refresher and a new card, without so much hassle.
Welcome to the club.

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:15 am

When you get your card issues sorted out, give me a holler. We have enough gear to lend you some (BP/W, regs, fins) to use to get wet, and we can put you in a set of doubles if you want, too (although they're small ones).

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:26 am

BASSMAN wrote:Welcome to the club John!
You may be interested in the big "Underwater Sports" sale at the end of July! in seattle. There is some great deals there!

Unfortunately I have no spare money this month (unemployed) so there will be no buying of anything non-essential, like gear until at least august, perhaps later. Right now, I don't see buying any gear until I have a good paying job again for at least 2, more likely 3 months, that could happen next week, (the good paying job) or never. I am hoping for next week.

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:32 am

Cera wrote:I hate to say this, but GOOD LUCK getting a card that 'old' from NAUI... They have a hard time keeping track of this years' stuff... My friend was trying to get a card from PADI, that was around the same time frame, they sent him someone elses card... Not even close to his name. Strange. Prolly the best thing to do would be to sign up for an advanced class (if you have some form of proof from diving before) and discuss it with the instructor. That way, you get a refresher and a new card, without so much hassle.
Welcome to the club.

Unfortunately, EVERYTHING that proves I am a diver, besides what's in my head, and what little gear I have left, went with the log book. I never took photos, and most of the folk I have dived with I have lost contact with. So I am on my own.

Rule for the wise: don't put all your diving records in one place.

I would be in this same snafu with the card, if my car had been stolen during a dive, or if my apartment burned down. I sort of specialize in systems that are highly redundant, that don't go down-- ever. And yet in my own life I practice non-redundancy way too much, with things like records, that I probably shouldn't. I see my own important paper records as a labor burden, I see other people's data as a paycheck.

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:57 am

LCF wrote:When you get your card issues sorted out, give me a holler. We have enough gear to lend you some (BP/W, regs, fins) to use to get wet, and we can put you in a set of doubles if you want, too (although they're small ones).

Thanks, I may take you up on that. The primary reason I dove doubles in the past, is I got them cheap, I got the Lp70's as a kit with the backplate and BCD (at a garage sale, ironic?) for as I recall $150 cash, AND they had current Visuals on them. I wound up LOVING doubles for the simplicity of air management, I would typically dive two relatively short dives with one parter because he was an air-hog and would suck down a AL80 in the time it took me burn about 35-40% of my air. But on that first dive I was always happy to know I had a TON of air in reserve. I split the doubles once (they came with a J valve and K valve for such,) and ran with them like separate for a couple of years. But I went back to the doubles config for when I was diving with my DI, who could go forever on his favored tank, which if I recall was a LP 100, my endurance was the profile limiting factor. I also had one other partner who could outlast me on just over half as much air, (but she was tiny) so they were handy there too. I was never particularly air efficient, but not particularly horrible, I occasionally would calculate it, and as I recall .65 to .80 was a typical sac range for me often being worse the larger the interval since I last dove.

I dove almost every weekend for a couple of years after I got certified (I was in highschool, it wasn't like I had to study), but then it dropped off as I had to focus on college and I was deeper inland for college, and I had a night job, and... and then the ear problems started popping up, and diving became more and more infrequent until it was something I would do only a few times a year, in fits and spurts to reconnect with people so much as to get under water. I don't want to repeat that, I want to dive semi-regularly when I resume diving.

The only negatives I consider present with doubles for purely recreational use is the extra mass is harder for small people to handle with confidence, the extra land-weight is harder for smaller people to sherpa, and the extra drag is harder for everyone. But I am a larger person, so the mass and weight weren't issues, so capacity was king, and twin 70's provide a lot of capacity in a easy to handle package.

I am really surprised aluminum lined composite HP tanks aren't on the market (or at least I haven't seen them) the last SCBA I used was a Scott pack (firefighting kit), and the tank on it was of ridiculously massive in capacity, yet tiny and LIGHT on the outside, and pressurized to 4450 or something insane like that. IF it can survive going into a burning building (or freezing water in winter), and being tossed around (and firemen toss them around like they are at the highland games), and having structures fall on it, it should be able to handle a quaint little recreational dive.

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:59 am

Welcome to NWDC John. :occasion5:

I hope to see you around soon!

Matt S. · Post by **Matt S.** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:44 am

Lynne (LCF) let me borrow her husband's DSS backplate/wing setup which is how I decided to kick my Ranger BCD to the curb.

(Heh, you could always make a backplate out of an old stop sign, isn't that how Irvine and JJ got started?)

Penopolypants · Post by **Penopolypants** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:18 pm

Welcome! You were a most excellent dive sherpa and good company too. I'm glad to hear your ear issues are worked out. Let's go diving!

wrongjohn · Post by **wrongjohn** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:43 pm

Matt S. wrote:Lynne (LCF) let me borrow her husband's DSS backplate/wing setup which is how I decided to kick my Ranger BCD to the curb.

Your ranger was the first vest type I have ever seen I could imagine using, perhaps after stripping it down a little, but I would choose a well-setup back plate over it any day. Just the lunacy of trying to fit all that weight into those two pockets, was bordering on crazy.

(Heh, you could always make a backplate out of an old stop sign, isn't that how Irvine and JJ got started?)

Yeah, all I need is a brake, nibbler and a drill press! Except aren't most stop signs made of composite and aluminum laminates these days? And I don't think the public works department would take kindly to me snarfing one.

Actually, now that I think of it, what is the buoyancy of CF/K composite in a typical low-temp epoxy composite in salt water? I suspect it's near-neutral if not outright negative buoyant. I should be able to find that in the spruce and specialty catalog, except it's in a box that is supporting the work surface for the machines.

IF I were to make a backplate, I would make it of carbon/kevlar. The tooling demands to do even DIY layups are less of a hassle for me than working with sheet metal, then again, the hardware requirements are pretty steep, I would need to build a Rutan oven, get a vac bag, and a good vacuum pump, not only for the curing, but for the out-gassing of the epoxy.

I don't have the "workspace" to work either option at the moment, I am stuck with off-the shelf for such a large component. I am going to stick to working with little bits of metal and delrin, that I can comfortably work on the table top machines for now. I will make the specialty parts that I want ON the back plate, pins and such for retaining weights, the quick release (but positive locking) blocks that attach a single tank adapter or twins to the back plate, and other such finishing touches.

Right now, I am cutting a new odd-dimensiond reverse-thread screw for something old and busted that needs a new one. I could go by a die, but that's money out the door, and well, what's the fun in that?

If I were working for a living, it would be cost effective (time-value) to use a die, but right now, cutting one isn't such a big deal.

Post by **Sea of Green** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:55 pm

wrongjohn wrote:I have a ton of questions about the current options for setting up twins, including going with redundant first-stages and a isolation valve. And about tanks in general.

Best local resource for that is Starfish Diving Inc., owned/operated by Randy Williams. He's a good bud of mine can give lots of info on that, and then some. 206-387-6749.

P.S., Welcome!

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:49 pm

Sea of Green wrote:
wrongjohn wrote:I have a ton of questions about the current options for setting up twins, including going with redundant first-stages and a isolation valve. And about tanks in general.
Best local resource for that is Starfish Diving Inc., owned/operated by Randy Williams. He's a good bud of mine can give lots of info on that, and then some. 206-387-6749.

P.S., Welcome!

In addition to Randy, NW Sports Divers in Kenmore is heavy (pun intended) into doubles and tech diving. I don't know if Randy still deals in retail stuff or not. NWSD is now an Apex AND Atomic dealer. They also are a dealer for DSS which makes a SWEEEEET doubles wing. Starfish and NWSD are where I get 99% of my fills and service... both are top-self outfits.

Ken G · Post by **Ken G** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:47 pm

Welcome to the club

Post by **Sea of Green** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:20 pm

Sounder wrote:
Sea of Green wrote:
wrongjohn wrote:I have a ton of questions about the current options for setting up twins, including going with redundant first-stages and a isolation valve. And about tanks in general.
Best local resource for that is Starfish Diving Inc., owned/operated by Randy Williams. He's a good bud of mine can give lots of info on that, and then some. 206-387-6749.

P.S., Welcome!
In addition to Randy, NW Sports Divers in Kenmore is heavy (pun intended) into doubles and tech diving. I don't know if Randy still deals in retail stuff or not. NWSD is now an Apex AND Atomic dealer. They also are a dealer for DSS which makes a SWEEEEET doubles wing. Starfish and NWSD are where I get 99% of my fills and service... both are top-self outfits.

Randy doesn't do the retail side anymore, no, he offers consultation, instruction, air fills, free yarns and bad puns. The question was regarding consultation of options for doubles. Randy would probably refer him to NWSD for actual gear. One of his former ee's, Dan, works there.