Salt Water State Park

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Gdog
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Gdog » Wed May 18, 2016 3:26 pm

Wow. This is an old thread I somehow fell into thinking it was current. Sorry to resurrect it!

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby ohopdiver » Wed May 18, 2016 2:25 pm

Get a copy of Tidal Currents Of Puget Sound by Starpath Pubs. It has NOAA Current charts and Tide Prints.
Tide Prints tell you the crazy directions the current at this site take and is based on Seattle tides making it easy.
The Current Charts say this area is weak or variable for all tides. That means it's not predictable based on the Narrows North end current as the rest of south Sound is. Admiralty Inlet is not used for this area. You're only going to swim 900 feet at the highest tide. Rock boots are nice at low tide. I'm a member of the geezer club and swum it many times including last weekend.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Gdog » Wed May 18, 2016 1:35 pm

I guess I don't understand what is wrong with dairiki. For an easy reference it seems good. Educate me CaptnJack!

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:50 pm

I don't understand why people keep using dairiki but yes. Its a modest to bigger ebb tomorrow morning. You could splash at about 8:30 and exit at 9:45.

The official Des Moines substation data is here:
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaati ... id=9446248
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YellowEye
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby YellowEye » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:02 pm

Thanks, so looks like tomorrow's morning high-tide exchange may be barely doable?

http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/sea/2015-12-31

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:58 pm

There is no current station. You aim for high tide on a small exchange day. Low tide is a BRUTAL walk. So splash roughly an hour or 45mins before high tide on a <8ft exchange kind of day with minimal SW wind. Exit 30mins after high tide (roughly). Large ebbs are to be avoided. Small floods are ok except you want to get in fairly late to avoid the long rocky walk anyway. A SW wind will create a large fairly extreme ebb (North-ish) current with nasty waves.
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby YellowEye » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Q on salt water. What current station and current correction do you use?

Could you dive this site in the middle of a 1knot flood, 2knot ebb, etc as measured from Admiralty etc? (assuming you want to avoid reasonable current). Assuming no wind.

Thanks!
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Jeff Pack » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:12 pm

the problem with todays budget isnt removing them, its replacing them.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Dusty2 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:49 pm

I am all for tire removal. Especially with the idea of replacement as a integral part of the plan. They are a very poor habitat and just plain ugly. Wish the concept were a part of the creosote removal plans too. Those projects do a lot of harm to the wildlife and leave wastelands in there place.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:34 pm

Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby kdupreez » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:11 pm

Jeremy wrote:I still don't get the point of pulling a tire reef and replacing it with a rock reef. Yeah, rock reefs are better.

But why not put them at places like Kayak Point, Mukilteo, Edmonds Dry Dock, or TTN that have no reef? Pulling a tire reef has to destroy a lot of life.


According to WDFW the tire reefs are bad for the environment and they over time degrade and is best to remove it.

At all the dive and fishing locations they would need to replace it with something if they were to yank out the current reefs.

I have a list of about 20 tire reefs that needs to be surveyed and cataloged so there is more data to support any decision on how to prioritize the rip and replace project.

If you look at how well the Saltwater 4 yr old reef is doing and how life is thriving on the Alki Fishing reef, its hard to argue that a bigger/higher structure of natural rock, etc. is better for both wild life habitats and possibly increase the sustainability of the wildlife.

and putting the large structures in somewhat current sensitive locations is actually the better choice for creating a good place that attracts and sustains wild life.. more water movement, more nutrients, more critters.
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Jeremy wrote:Pulling a tire reef has to destroy a lot of life.


Not as much as you think. Tires are crappy habitat and probably smush as many benthic critters living on or in the underlying mud for the few anenomes and things they support. Langley's tire reef was ok, but the logs helped create a way more complex structure.

FL has realized tires suck and is removing tens of thousands of them off some of their beaches.
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Dusty2 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:51 am

To bad there isn't way to allow divers and other interested parties to fund such sites.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Jeremy » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:48 am

Me too. Imagine some nice structure with the good viz at TTN...would be awesome. Put it between the tires and cabin cruiser or tires and golf ball boat imo.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Dusty2 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:37 am

cardiver wrote:I would love to see a nice reef straight out from the entry at about 50-60' at TTN......

+1 :metal:

It would be an awesome site but parking would be a big problem.

Of course right now it's fishermen! :angry:

Thank God that is short lived.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby cardiver » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:27 am

I would love to see a nice reef straight out from the entry at about 50-60' at TTN......
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Jeremy
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Jeremy » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:14 am

I still don't get the point of pulling a tire reef and replacing it with a rock reef. Yeah, rock reefs are better.

But why not put them at places like Kayak Point, Mukilteo, Edmonds Dry Dock, or TTN that have no reef? Pulling a tire reef has to destroy a lot of life.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:09 am

Its a great site to scooter from shore btw
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Dusty2 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:53 am

I love side scan sonar!

I would list Saltwater as advanced with the addendum for the young or very fit only! There is no way this old fart is considering this dive in any way other than a live boat situation. :rawlings:

Placing an artificial reef at the point of a stream outflow is never a good idea due to the long swim but I can understand that it needed to be at an already existing state park to be able to reduce the costs involved and make it a multi use park.
Last edited by Dusty2 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Jeremy » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:12 am

That's amazing - very interesting!

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kdupreez
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby kdupreez » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:52 am

Oh - And if you want to see something scary..

This is sort of what it used to look like.. Here is another side scan survey of DeMoines fishing pier.. We did the same survey to establish the magnitude of this reef.. the longer term idea is to pull this entire reef and replace it with natural rock reef like Saltwater.

This tire reef is smaller and its about 600 x 500 feet with at least 2,000 tires.

Yeah, thats like about 7 Acres of tires!!!

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby kdupreez » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:39 am

There were thousands and thousands of tires.. the Army Corp Of Engineers came out with a massive ship and army divers and removed all the old tires where the reef is today.

The purpose of this side-scan was actually to establish the size of the left over tires in order for them to be removed.. I just took out the tires from the "dive site map"..

Here is the complete side-scan survey we did, including the tires way up north.. you can see the remaining tire debris field is as large as all three current artificial reefs combined!!

there are tires scattered all the way up to this larger debris field I marked in the image, but the highest concentration is in that area i marked.

http://i.imgur.com/0s6E9rd.jpg

Image
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:44 am

Jeremy wrote:Wow, I had no idea the old reef was so massive. What was the point of taking it out?


Tire reefs suck. They used to be a convenient way to build a reef and dispose of a whole lot of tires. But research has demonstrated that they aren't very good habitat (I don't have my finger on a citation at the moment). So you only really got the durable and tolerate critters living in/on them. They took it out and properly disposed of the tires when they built the new rock reef. Typically they burn waste tires in cement kilns or they get ground up and used in a variety of things as fillers (they don't go to landfills). I'm not sure what they do with salt water soaked ones though, maybe the ranger would know where they went.
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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby Jeremy » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:27 am

Wow, I had no idea the old reef was so massive. What was the point of taking it out?

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Re: Salt Water State Park

Postby CaptnJack » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:35 am

Jeremy wrote:The tire reef was not removed. We missed the north reef today by going too far north on dive 1.

There were hundreds and hundreds of tires between 40-60 fsw north of the north reef.


There used to be thousands and thousands of tires! The removed most of them, but only in the vicinity of the new reef. The north ones got left.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.


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