Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

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Tubesnout23
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Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

Do you practice the deployment of the surface marker buoy while sharing air and doing a controlled ascent?
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Nwbrewer
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Nwbrewer »

I have, but it's not something I do a lot. Why?
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by spatman »

i have too, mostly in some classes i've taken. can't hurt to practice if it is something you're interested in doing.
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ljjames
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by ljjames »

i bet you could find a willing victim to practice with at the tweek tonight :)
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Tubesnout23
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

Sambolino44 thinks that it is OK to deploy the SMB, doing air share and a controlled ascent all at the same time. I am not totally sure about that. We tried once and it turned into a big mess. However I do understand the need to be able to perform all those skills together if it is necessary...I guess it is just a matter of practice.
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ljjames
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by ljjames »

Tubesnout23 wrote:Sambolino44 thinks that it is OK to deploy the SMB, doing air share and a controlled ascent all at the same time. I am not totally sure about that. We tried once and it turned into a big mess. However I do understand the need to be able to perform all those skills together if it is necessary...I guess it is just a matter of practice.
the OOG diver is on the long hose.. now everything slows down.

you should have deploying down pat if you are doing a dive that requires it or even bothering to carry it. Therefor it should really not be a big issue to pause on way up (say at your 3 min stop?) and deploy. More than enough time... if you feel the need to do it on the 'slide' (as in whilst making upward progress) and your buddy is helping and watching depth/time, it should not be a CF. Whether or not someone is sucking on your long hose should not really have a big impact if you've done appropriate gas planning etc..
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Nwbrewer »

If you're worried about managing the spool on the way up, shoot it from depth, clip it off, let it hang. Do your ascent up the line, and worry about winding it up once you're on the surface.
"Screw "annual" service,... I get them serviced when they break." - CaptnJack (paraphrased)


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Tubesnout23
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

Nwbrewer wrote:If you're worried about managing the spool on the way up, shoot it from depth, clip it off, let it hang. Do your ascent up the line, and worry about winding it up once you're on the surface.
I guess that's probably my major concern: as far as I remember from my OW class the needer and the donor are supposed to hold each other while ascending. Right? So where is the room for managing the spool?

Sorry for asking but ...What if it's windy on the surface...Would the line with the spool attached to it drift off sight?
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Nwbrewer »

Tubesnout23 wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote:If you're worried about managing the spool on the way up, shoot it from depth, clip it off, let it hang. Do your ascent up the line, and worry about winding it up once you're on the surface.
I guess that's probably my major concern: as far as I remember from my OW class the needer and the donor are supposed to hold each other while ascending. Right? So where is the room for managing the spool?

Sorry for asking but ...What if it's windy on the surface...Would the line with the spool attached to it drift off sight?
You should be able to stay with the line, either holding it, or just lightly swimming with it as it drifts. As long as the OOG diver is calm, and is holding the hose with their right hand, there really shouldn't be a need for the donating diver to hold on to the OOG diver. If you feel the need, let the spool go (not winding it) and you can hold onto the OOG diver with one hand and the line with the other.

A panicked diver is another story. Best to hang on and not worry about the SMB.
"Screw "annual" service,... I get them serviced when they break." - CaptnJack (paraphrased)


"you do realize you're supposed to mix the :koolaid: with water and drink it, not snort the powder directly from the packet, right? :smt064 " - Spatman
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Tubesnout23
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

Nwbrewer wrote:
Tubesnout23 wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote:If you're worried about managing the spool on the way up, shoot it from depth, clip it off, let it hang. Do your ascent up the line, and worry about winding it up once you're on the surface.
I guess that's probably my major concern: as far as I remember from my OW class the needer and the donor are supposed to hold each other while ascending. Right? So where is the room for managing the spool?

Sorry for asking but ...What if it's windy on the surface...Would the line with the spool attached to it drift off sight?
You should be able to stay with the line, either holding it, or just lightly swimming with it as it drifts. As long as the OOG diver is calm, and is holding the hose with their right hand, there really shouldn't be a need for the donating diver to hold on to the OOG diver. If you feel the need, let the spool go (not winding it) and you can hold onto the OOG diver with one hand and the line with the other.

A panicked diver is another story. Best to hang on and not worry about the SMB.
Thank you very much! :joshsmith:
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by lamont »

Tubesnout23 wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote:If you're worried about managing the spool on the way up, shoot it from depth, clip it off, let it hang. Do your ascent up the line, and worry about winding it up once you're on the surface.
I guess that's probably my major concern: as far as I remember from my OW class the needer and the donor are supposed to hold each other while ascending. Right? So where is the room for managing the spool?

Sorry for asking but ...What if it's windy on the surface...Would the line with the spool attached to it drift off sight?
You're not going to be able to hang on to the victim diver and manage the spool. If you've got an OOG diver somewhat unresponsive or otherwise needing attention, you need to clip off and drop the spool -- might hook your arm around the line at that point. In reality, I might do that anyway if there's an OOG that isn't temporary, if entanglement wasn't an issue. In class if you're doing an OOG and spooling up to demonstrate task loading, then you don't hang onto each other.

Generally, you'll both be able to control your own buoyancy better by having some separation and both being horizontal in the water column, and not hanging onto each other (which is a benefit of the long hose since it gives you the ability to have that separation instead of forcing the two divers to cling together).
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

lamont wrote:
Tubesnout23 wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote:If you're worried about managing the spool on the way up, shoot it from depth, clip it off, let it hang. Do your ascent up the line, and worry about winding it up once you're on the surface.
I guess that's probably my major concern: as far as I remember from my OW class the needer and the donor are supposed to hold each other while ascending. Right? So where is the room for managing the spool?

Sorry for asking but ...What if it's windy on the surface...Would the line with the spool attached to it drift off sight?
You're not going to be able to hang on to the victim diver and manage the spool. If you've got an OOG diver somewhat unresponsive or otherwise needing attention, you need to clip off and drop the spool -- might hook your arm around the line at that point. In reality, I might do that anyway if there's an OOG that isn't temporary, if entanglement wasn't an issue. In class if you're doing an OOG and spooling up to demonstrate task loading, then you don't hang onto each other.

Generally, you'll both be able to control your own buoyancy better by having some separation and both being horizontal in the water column, and not hanging onto each other (which is a benefit of the long hose since it gives you the ability to have that separation instead of forcing the two divers to cling together).
Thanks for your comment. Well that's assuming that both divers have a long hose. What about when one has a long hose and the other has a standard one?
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spatman
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Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by spatman »

What about when one has a long hose and the other has a standard one?
If the standard hose is donating, I would just forget about shooting the SMB.
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by BDub »

Before you look at practicing this skill, you both need to look at how proficient you are with each of the components of it.

Meaning, how good are your s-drills? How proficient are your (non-air sharing) mid-water ascents? How solid are your s-drills with an ascent? How about bag shoots? How about mid-water bag shoots?

If you're each not proficient at each one of those individually, practicing them all together will end up sloppy, likely creating bad habits.

If you're solid on those, and want to practice this new skill, have a go at it!
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lamont
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by lamont »

BDub wrote:Before you look at practicing this skill, you both need to look at how proficient you are with each of the components of it.

Meaning, how good are your s-drills? How proficient are your (non-air sharing) mid-water ascents? How solid are your s-drills with an ascent? How about bag shoots? How about mid-water bag shoots?

If you're each not proficient at each one of those individually, practicing them all together will end up sloppy, likely creating bad habits.

If you're solid on those, and want to practice this new skill, have a go at it!
+1

you want to get to the point where you can put it all together, but just being able to do an air share while neutral at 10 feet holding a stop is tough to begin with. and the ability to do 10 foot ascents on a schedule and get out of the water efficiently and under-control is another tough thing. putting the s-drill and the ascent together with shooting a bag is getting complicated.

first thing to practice is probably just buoyancy and hovering in midwater with minimal references (when the viz clears up in cove2 soon you can actually hover at 20 feet watching the bottom 30 feet below you as a position reference so you don't drift into the ferry...)
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

We have already established that practicing this multiple tasks skill all at once is still overwhelming so we have broken it down in small sections. Last Monday we practiced the deployment of the SMB, next time we will shoot the bag again (hopefully I will get it right at the first attempt!) and then move one and do a controlled ascent without the bag etc.etc.
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by ldevore »

Tubesnout23 wrote:We have already established that practicing this multiple tasks skill all at once is still overwhelming so we have broken it down in small sections. Last Monday we practiced the deployment of the SMB, next time we will shoot the bag again (hopefully I will get it right at the first attempt!) and then move one and do a controlled ascent without the bag etc.etc.
I understand that you're going to be at MMM tomorrow. If so, I would be more than happy to practice an SMB asscent with you, however you want to break it down. ...can certainly use the practice myself.... :roll:

Lauri
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Re: Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

Post by Tubesnout23 »

ldevore wrote:
Tubesnout23 wrote:We have already established that practicing this multiple tasks skill all at once is still overwhelming so we have broken it down in small sections. Last Monday we practiced the deployment of the SMB, next time we will shoot the bag again (hopefully I will get it right at the first attempt!) and then move one and do a controlled ascent without the bag etc.etc.
I understand that you're going to be at MMM tomorrow. If so, I would be more than happy to practice an SMB asscent with you, however you want to break it down. ...can certainly use the practice myself.... :roll:

Lauri
Oh dear! Thank you very much for the offer.Sorry but I am not going to Mukilteo anymore because I thought that nobody was going to be there! Are you planning to be there next Monday August 22nd?

I do feel that I am not quite ready yet to try everything all at once. So far I have been doing controlled ascent from 20/30 ft. I am wondering if it would be a good idea to practice one from a deeper depth...
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