Side Mount diving. (NHZ)

[kdupreez]

A LOT of people I know have recently made a jump to sidemount.

And since I am not a sidemount diver and dont know any personal friend sidemount instructors, I was wondering if the group could share some details on their sidemount experiences.

I have some knowledge on the configuration and protocols in a recreational diving, but not a whole lot.

I'd love to hear from you side-mounters how you like diving it, what was the best and worst in terms of making the shift and now that you've been diving it a while, how do you like it?

The differences in warm water sidemount with AL80's and diving here with heavy steels and dry-suit would be good to fully understand the pro's and con's too.

Thanks for any insights.. (And remember, this is a No Hijack Zone)

OK... Three, Two, One.. GO!

[Dusty2]

Talk to Grateful Diver. He went back and took lessons from one of the pros and has a few months experience to work out the cold water differences.

[spatman]

I'd love to hear from you side-mounters how you like diving it, what was the best and worst in terms of making the shift and now that you've been diving it a while, how do you like it?

The differences in warm water sidemount with AL80's and diving here with heavy steels and dry-suit would be good to fully understand the pro's and con's too.

I love sidemount diving and am really glad I made the switch from backmounted doubles. I did it primarily to save straining my back lugging doubles to and from the water, since I do mostly shore diving. It did take a while to get everything tweaked to my liking, but it's always been very comfortable in the water.

Here's a quick list of the pros and cons I have experienced so far:

Pros:

• A lot less wear and tear on the back and legs, especially shore diving.
• Bubble checks and troubleshooting are much simpler when you can see your valves.
• No need for bands and manifolds, all you need is two matching tanks. L/R valves aren't necessary, but nice to have.


Cons:

• Dialing in the gear takes longer. Determining hose lengths, bungee lengths and size, and leash lengths are very specific to each diver and require a decent amount of trial and error. It really helps to have someone who's gone through it before around to look at your setup and provide feedback.
• Switching regs every 500-600psi takes some getting used to, but quickly becomes second nature.
• Finding weight placements for proper trim can be tricky, depending on the SM rig and tank size.

General observances:

• The best tanks for SM drysuit diving here seem to be high pressure steels, Worthingtons being a favorite due to the way they trim evenly when breathed down. Other steel tanks, like hp PST tanks or several kinds of LP tanks, can get butt-floaty when breathed down, sometimes when they're only half empty. This can be compensated for by attaching weights to the cam bands.
• When adjusting gear for the first time, start with tank placement and trim first. Get the bungee and leash lengths in place before messing with hose lengths. It took me twice as long as it should have because I was changing too many things between each day of diving.
• There are many different SM rigs out there and a million ways in which people customize them even further. Do your research before jumping in and figure out what will work best for your style of diving and budget.

That's all I can think of to say right now. I'm happy to answer any other questions or dive with folks who want to see it in action. A few of us sidemounters will be at the club dive on Saturday, if you want to get with us then.

[CaptnJack]

Personally, its a pita. I have about 30 SM dives, 10 in FL and 20-something here (since Feb 2012). I am only diving SM recreationally to get my rig dialed in for cave diving. Since I am only doing freshwater caves, that means I'm using it in Lake WA and Lake Crescent which are somewhat poor analogs. Now that I'm on the last 95% of tweaks, I am not really diving SM recreationally as there are cave specific issues that I am still stuck working out.

I am trying to keep my backmount habits when in backmount and sidemount habits in SM. Probably the biggest difference IMO is that in backmount cave diving there's really no concept of "self rescue" while that is a tenant of SM gas management. So by extension gas matching is essentially unnecessary. But those aren't recreational issues.

[Grateful Diver]

Spatty provided a pretty good overview. I've been diving sidemount now for a bit over a year, having gone to Florida last May to take sidemount instruction from someone who dives it and teaches it every day. And that leads to my first caution ... be careful who you learn it from. I know of one good sidemount instructor in our area, who teaches out of Seven Seas Scuba down in Vancouver. Pretty much anyone else who might offer the class may or may not have much more experience than the people they're teaching it to. And although sidemount isn't exactly rocket surgery, as Spatty mentioned, it tends to require quite a bit more tweaking and customization than backmount, and an instructor needs to be experienced enough to know what to look for and how to make changes to your rig that will get you balanced and in trim.

Some other things to think about ... neither pro nor con, but just things that are good to know before you jump into it ...

- The main reason I hear for people wanting to get into sidemount is because they like the idea of not having to walk their tanks down to the water and back. Well, guess what ... you still have to get them there and bring them back. You just now have the option of doing it in more than one trip. Some people find those little collapsible two-wheeler dollies handy for this purpose, but not every entry is going to accommodate one.

- The logistics of entry and exit are more complicated if you are putting your tanks on and taking them off in the water. This can be annoying if you're diving with a back-mounted buddy, who enters the water ready to go and has to wait while you get your tanks clipped in before doing your buddy checks.

- If you're putting your tanks on in the water (shore diving), that means you're entering the water without a regulator. This can be a potential drawback if the conditions are rough because if you slip and fall you won't have anything to breathe off of or to inflate your BCD while you get yourself back upright. Suggest if conditions are rough, consider putting at least one tank on before walking in.

- Dive boats were not made for sidemount. The gates you have to walk through for entry are generally too narrow to accommodate sidemount cylinders ... you have to angle through and do a modified giant stride that feels a bit awkward until you figure out the logistics. Watch that back foot so as to not get your fin caught in the gateway as you stride.

- And on the same subject of dive boats, you're faced with choice of removing your cylinders in the water or walking up a ladder with them in place. This will be situation-dependent ... conditions and type of boat/ladder will dictate which is preferable ... but if you're unclipping in the water, remember again to not completely unclip from your rig before clipping the tank into a lanyard ... if you drop it, it sinks. Frankly, on bigger boats I find it easier to just walk up the ladder with tanks on and unclip them at the bench.

- Sometimes on smaller boats it's a lot less work to just drop your cylinders in the water on a lanyard, backroll off the boat, and clip them on in the water. This can be easy-peasy unless conditions are rough or there's surface current to deal with ... in which case it's far from easy. If you're doing this, bottom-clip the tank to your rig before removing the top clip from the lanyard to prevent possibly dropping the tank. And remember, when you backroll in you have no air source, and you're wearing your weights ... so don't forget to manually inflate your BCD first ...

Overall, my take on it is that side-mount adds task loading, and for the occasional recreational diver it's probably not a good idea. For the more experienced diver who has learned how to prioritize and manage task loading, it's a viable alternative to backmount that exchanges some advantages and drawbacks for others. Personally, I find it ideal for solo diving ... more so than backmounting a single and slinging a pony. But that's mainly because of the streamlining effect and improved center of balance that allows me, as a photographer, to get closer to my subject and makes it easier for me to get into and maintain non-standard positioning for the shot.

But, if I'm diving with a buddy, I still choose to do most of my diving backmount for the convenience.

If you're going to consider sidemount, it's always a good idea to ask yourself why you'd want to, and explore the real advantages and drawbacks before making the investment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[kdupreez]

Very good info so far. Thanks a lot Matt, Richard and Bob!

I asked these questions, because I invariably get the dive buddy or student who wants to jump into sidemount and I dont always have all the information about pro's and cons between the two.

Sounds to me that there are a few big Pro's so far:

- You alleviate the stress of your back because you can essentially put the tanks on in the water (and even have someone else walk them down for you.)
- Having eyes on your valves is a big plus and you can always reach your valves
- Swapping tanks is a breeze on the boat if you dive recreational.

I have a few other questions that would be good to debate around.

- When diving sidemount, do I understand correctly that one system has a long hose and the other is 40" and stays stowed or do you bungee-necklkace it? and how does this alter your "Out Of Gas" situations depending on which tank you are breathing?

- Switching between tanks every 500psi, are there special buddy check procedures before making a switch? and do you leave the valves open/closed in between switches?

- are sidemount rigged tanks pretty much just stage/deco kits or are they special? And when traveling to tropical or other destinations, do you just take some stage kits with you? and add/remove the kits on the rental tanks you exchange every day??

- When carrying more that 2 tanks (think stage or deco), where do you stow them? And I'm guessing you can exchange a sidemounted tank underwater for a fresh one if need be? (i.e. staged tanks)

- do you really need those "special" sidemount wing and butt plate systems?

[CaptnJack]

- When diving sidemount, do I understand correctly that one system has a long hose and the other is 40" and stays stowed or do you bungee-necklkace it? and how does this alter your "Out Of Gas" situations depending on which tank you are breathing?

Some people use a long hose, some don't. Its not real easy to restow a stuffed long hose cleanly so doing a full "modified-S" drill is a considerable bit of work. I have a long hose on my right tank, but if I'm breathing from my bungied left reg I will have to unclip it to get the long hose to you. Hence the "self-rescue" attitude is better for SM. If you are in SM you have independent tanks too so there's very little chance you'll need my long hose. My attitude is my long hose is a courtesy to any buddy, not a required piece of gear like in backmount.

- Switching between tanks every 500psi, are there special buddy check procedures before making a switch? and do you leave the valves open/closed in between switches?

My SM valves are both on all the time. Some systems require you to turn them on and off (the UTD Z)

- are sidemount rigged tanks pretty much just stage/deco kits or are they special? And when traveling to tropical or other destinations, do you just take some stage kits with you? and add/remove the kits on the rental tanks you exchange every day??

No not at all. The neck clip is in the wrong place and the tail clip may or may not be the correct length or height. There's no need for the cord/hose either (although some people like the handle). Left and right valves (plugged manifold) are not absolutely required but vastly nicer. It seems there's this attitude that you can just pick up 2 single rental tanks anywhere and go tech diving (where doubles are scarce) and I think this "benefit" is a bit overhyped. Just look at the boat issues Bob outlined, the recreational boat/operator is not going to have the right gases, or be able to support tech dives properly just because you took 2 of his rental tanks and sidemounted them. I have my own rigging and would never rely on someone else's as its too tailored for me.

- When carrying more that 2 tanks (think stage or deco), where do you stow them? And I'm guessing you can exchange a sidemounted tank underwater for a fresh one if need be? (i.e. staged tanks)

I have only used AL80s as stage bottles on top of lp85 SM tanks. I don't think exchanging a steel SM tank UW is very realistic and not sure why you'd do that recreationally. You'd have to lay or kneel on the bottom as the SM tank is part of your overall weight and trim. It would be like a ditch and don in the pool, fun in its place but not a very practical skill.

- do you really need those "special" sidemount wing and butt plate systems?

Depends on what you want to do. You could probably dive SM using duct tape and bailing wire if you really wanted.

[spatman]

- When diving sidemount, do I understand correctly that one system has a long hose and the other is 40" and stays stowed or do you bungee-necklkace it? and how does this alter your "Out Of Gas" situations depending on which tank you are breathing?

Many of us use a stowed long hose on the right tank and a short (~40") hose with a bungeed reg on the left tank. Like Richard mentioned, this is mostly because we often dive with mixed teams, and it would be a pretty extraordinary set of failures for your SM buddy to need your donated reg. I use one of Jake's Quick Release Clips™ on my long hose reg, so if i'm not breathing it, it's a sharp tug on my right shoulder d-ring and ready to be donated.

But there are several different configs for hoses and regs, depending on the diver's preference and diving habits. For example, some use two short hoses, both clipped off.

- Switching between tanks every 500psi, are there special buddy check procedures before making a switch? and do you leave the valves open/closed in between switches?

No buddy checks. You're not deploying a stowed reg and breathing your bottom mix in both tanks, so not much need to double check. Like RJ said, tanks stay on from the beginning, just like BM.

- are sidemount rigged tanks pretty much just stage/deco kits or are they special? And when traveling to tropical or other destinations, do you just take some stage kits with you? and add/remove the kits on the rental tanks you exchange every day??

I have to contradict Richard here, there are some systems that do use stage kits, though modified slightly. The Nomad RIng Bungee system is one of them. The difference is that they use a velcro strap to keep the neck boltsnap tight to the bottle, and substitute a cam band for the hose clamp to facilitate swapping tanks between dives.

For most of us, its a set of cam bands with a short leash attached and another leash around the neck of the tank. Once the bungees are attached, the clip on the neck leash is really just a backup in case the bungee slips off the tank valve/handle.

- When carrying more that 2 tanks (think stage or deco), where do you stow them? And I'm guessing you can exchange a sidemounted tank underwater for a fresh one if need be? (i.e. staged tanks)

I sling a single deco bottle on my left side, just like in backmount. But again, like RJ said, there are other options.

There is really no need to remove your primary tanks, though that subject is often the center of heated internet debates. I would say that it is possible, if necessary. But I would never plan to do that during a dive.

- do you really need those "special" sidemount wing and butt plate systems?

No, but they help.

[spatman]

Some other things to think about ... neither pro nor con, but just things that are good to know before you jump into it ...

All excellent points, Bob. I'm glad you brought up the logistics of boat diving and shore entry. I spaced on those.

[CaptnJack]

I have to contradict Richard here, there are some systems that do use stage kits, though modified slightly. The Nomad RIng Bungee system is one of them. The difference is that they use a velcro strap to keep the neck boltsnap tight to the bottle, and substitute a cam band for the hose clamp to facilitate swapping tanks between dives.

I don't know anyone who dives those and I've never seen them in actual use. Not that I have that many FL dives however. But every SM diver I've seen (and JB has been crowded at times) uses seperate cam bands for the lower clip - to adjust the height on the tank and length of the clip for them.
There is A LOT of different SM gear out there. Some more or less useful and/or effective than others. Its like backmount 15+ years ago in terms of development. So imagine some short primary hoses, stuffed long hoses, looped long hoses, bungied wings, non bungied wings, etc etc. Its not like the current backmount tech scene which has to a great degree "standardized" on backplates, wings, looped long hose primaries and short bungied secondaries.

To some extent you can see 2 lines of SM thought though. "English" caving harness types like the Razor, clones, and homemade things. And FL oriented steel tank rigs like the Nomad and JT.

[spatman]

I have to contradict Richard here, there are some systems that do use stage kits, though modified slightly. The Nomad RIng Bungee system is one of them. The difference is that they use a velcro strap to keep the neck boltsnap tight to the bottle, and substitute a cam band for the hose clamp to facilitate swapping tanks between dives.

I don't know anyone who dives those and I've never seen them in actual use.

The instructor from Seven Seas Bob mentioned uses those.

[CaptnJack]

I have to contradict Richard here, there are some systems that do use stage kits, though modified slightly. The Nomad RIng Bungee system is one of them. The difference is that they use a velcro strap to keep the neck boltsnap tight to the bottle, and substitute a cam band for the hose clamp to facilitate swapping tanks between dives.

I don't know anyone who dives those and I've never seen them in actual use.

The instructor from Seven Seas Bob mentioned uses those.

Maybe so, but they still arent just stage kit. I think the UTD z using "standard" stage kits for its cylinders but I am not sure, haven't really looked at it that thoroughly.

[Grateful Diver]

First off, let me point out that sidemount is very much less standardized than backmount, and there are almost as many ways of doing things as there are people doing them. Everyone I know who dives sidemount does things somewhat differently. So the following are based purely on how I do them ...

- When diving sidemount, do I understand correctly that one system has a long hose and the other is 40" and stays stowed or do you bungee-necklkace it? and how does this alter your "Out Of Gas" situations depending on which tank you are breathing?

Yes, I dive my right cylinder with a stuffed 7-foot hose, and my left with a bungeed 40" hose that is routed behind my head in the usual "hog" manner. In that respect it is similar to diving a hog rig. The biggest difference is that the "S" drill is unnecessary because the last thing that I do getting ready is to deploy one of the two stuffed loops on my 7-foot hose and route it around my body (again, same as with a hog rig), clipping the reg to my right shoulder D-ring. The biggest difference is that this reg uses a breakaway clip so that if I have to donate while I'm not breathing it, I do simply by grabbing and tugging the regulator ... no need to unclip it. If I'm donating while breathing it, I deploy it exactly the same as I would on a standard hog rig ... and then pull the remaining hose length out of the restraining bands on the tank.

- Switching between tanks every 500psi, are there special buddy check procedures before making a switch? and do you leave the valves open/closed in between switches?

Well, since I mostly dive sidemount solo, there's no buddy check. Nor, if I had a buddy, would I see a reason to. The primary reason for a buddy check when switching regs in backmount is because you do this for deco bottles, and the purpose of the buddy check is to assure you're switching to the correct mix. Since with sidemount you're switching from backgas to (hopefully) the same backgas mix, the exercise would be rather moot.

As for switching every 500 psi ... that's a rule of thumb, and not applicable under all circumstances. In a cave, I'd probably switch more often so as to keep the cylinders more evenly balanced. Remember ... they're independent ... if you have to donate in a cave situation, you're gas-limited by the amount of gas in the tank with the lowest pressure at the time of the switch.

- are sidemount rigged tanks pretty much just stage/deco kits or are they special? And when traveling to tropical or other destinations, do you just take some stage kits with you? and add/remove the kits on the rental tanks you exchange every day??

Mine are not rigged like stage/deco kits at all. My rigging consists of a boltsnap around the tank neck on a looped piece of string, a standard cam band, two elastic strips for holding the hoses in place, and a butterfly clip on a string loop fixed to the cam band (for the butt rail). The length of the loop on the bottom clip, and the placement of the cam band, determine the trim of the cylinder. The top clip is there only to hold the tank in place while donning/doffing ... once in place, a bungee loop connected to my BCD is wrapped around the tank valve handle to suck the top of the tank in close to my armpit.

This whole assembly is completely removable, and it takes me about two minutes to remove the reg, remove the rigging from the tank, place the rigging on a new tank, reconnect the reg, and stow the hoses.

- When carrying more that 2 tanks (think stage or deco), where do you stow them? And I'm guessing you can exchange a sidemounted tank underwater for a fresh one if need be? (i.e. staged tanks)

Ah now, here's something I haven't done since class ... and would probably want to review with someone who's done it more recently before relying on it to work as planned. But in class the stage bottle (an AL80) rode on top of one of my main cylinders. You clip in the butt clip first (above the primary tank on the rail), pull the tank up so it rests on top of your primary tank, run the top clip underneath your armpit, and clip it into the shoulder D-ring. Unlike the primary tank, this one will not use a bungee to hold the top in place ... the length of the loop on the top clip determines where it will sit. The regulator gets routed like your necklaced reg, but when not in use will be clipped on the right shoulder D-ring.

I would not remove either of my primary cylinders to exchange with a stage underwater ... too much going on there to bother with. When you're done with the stage, just clip off the reg ... or restow it if that's what you're comfortable with ... and go with one of the other ones. In the cave, we dropped the tank once we breathed it down to the predetermined level, and picked it up on the way back. Even on the first try, getting it back in place on top of my left primary tank wasn't a big deal.

- do you really need those "special" sidemount wing and butt plate systems?

I don't know that you really need them ... but like anything else, the right tool for the job makes the job easier to do. Some sidemount rigs don't use a buttplate (mine does) ... but I think in every case, you either want to purchase a sidemount wing or create one that won't taco. Backmount wings are designed to use the tank for this purpose ... but without a tank back there, you have to come up with some way to keep the wing in a position where it can be vented easily.

.. Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Nwbrewer]

- do you really need those "special" sidemount wing and butt plate systems?

Depends on what you want to do. You could probably dive SM using duct tape and bailing wire if you really wanted.

Hey! You're talking about me aren't you?

I think these guys (who all have actually SM training ) have hit most of the questions you asked, but my reasoning was a little different.

For one, my time is tight, so I'm usually diving the same spots all the time. It kind of gets old, but at least I'm underwater. Building my own SM rig and learning to dive it seemed like something kind of fun to do to change things up. It's been an "interesting" experience as those who dove with me early on can attest.

The other reason I wanted to learn SM is that the rest of my family doesn't dive, so when traveling to warm water locations I'm with an insta-buddy. A SM rig packs really small and gives me some redundancy in that kind of situation.

Right now I feel like I've got my rig pretty well dialed in the way I want it, and in the water I love the way it dives. Nice and streamlined, trims out really easy, super comfortable. On land, it blows.

Lots harder to carry the tanks to the water, more screwing around getting geared up. If the wind is up and there's waves, putting on one tank in the water is less of an option, and reaching around the tanks to put your fins on isn't super easy, though I'm getting better at it.

I like the option of having a lot of gas for deeper recreational dives, I like that I can essentially get the get the benefits of doubles (gas volume, independent 1st stages, etc) without having to have my tanks permanently doubled up. I can use them as singles if I want to.

I run the same as Bob and Matt, with a 38" hose on the left and a 7' with breakaway on the right since I'm almost alway in mixed teams. Stuffing after a drill is more work than BM, but it's not that bad if you unhook the top of the tank. (I just did it Monday actually) . In practice I don't think the whole tank balancing thing is as sensitive as people make it out to be. I start with the right, bad things are more likely to happen at the beginning of the dive, so I want to be breathing the long hose. I take 500psi off that, then switch to the left for 1000psi (I'm now 500psi less than the right) and switch back. Repeat. I always switch back to the long hose for the ascent too, for the same reason I use it on the drop.

Like I say, I don't have any SM specific training, (so I certainly wouldn't look to my procedures as an example). I learned on the internet and through trial and error, but I have tried to think everything through and make sure I had good reasons for the way I rig all my gear and the procedures I use. (Paulicarp will probably soon join in with stories of all my errors.)

I'm sure I would have shaved many months of trial and error off my SM adjustment time by getting some instruction, but getting it all worked out was part of the fun of it for me.

Jake

[CaptnJack]

I dive a 28" hose on my left with an elbow on it at the 2nd stage, a 7ft long hose on the right - no breakaway clip but then again things like the RB80 have a long hose and no breakaway too so I am ok with that. I am not really diving "mixed teams" although I have been in <80ffw with people in various gear. If they are that paranoid about needing my long hose I am not the buddy for them.

28" is the right length in Fl, but its too short locally and I decided to switch to a 30" locally. The thicker undergarments and neck zip seal create a slightly longer routing. The 38-40" stage length hose bows out too much for me, hence the shorter hose and fixed elbow.

Unlike Jake I start breathing the left. Since in a cave bad things are more likely to happen at maximum penetration. So in this case the 2nd half of the penetration and the first bit of the exit after turning around is on the long hose.

I "clock" my valves knob out (lateral) and reg down. There are almost as many variation on this as there are divers.
knob lateral, reg up
knob lateral, reg down
knob down, reg in
are the 3 most common and cover 99.9% of SM choices. Not having port plugs in L/R valves would create a bunch of new options/choices but I don't know anyone choosing to dive 2 right hand valves (standard single tank valves). How you clock the valves dictates how your neck bungies work and where the lower clip is relative to the valve knob. I will let someone else describe the variations in neck bungie systems.

[kdupreez]

This is all very very informative! Thanks a lot to all that are responding.

I would really like to dive with you guys when there is oppertunity to get a feel for what this kind of mixed team environment is like, as well as get some first hand idea how how it all strings into place, from land all the way back up after the dive.

So, let me ask this; If you had no issues with your backs and/or this was a different environment like warmer water where AL80 singles and doubles are much more manageable, would you still be doing sidemount?

It seems like most non-tiny-restriction-cave-crawlers or people that are OK with carrying single or double tanks on their backs (assuming we are not talking about self reliance, but rather team based diving), would probably not see any sigificant benefit to jump to sidemount?

But, if you had any back issues, cant reach valves or dont want to hassle with the weight of regular back mounted gear or interested in crawling through tiny spaces or are into solo-self-reliant diving, then side-mount is a very attractive option?

Then a couple of more questions

- How do you do min-gas and turn pressure calculations, now that you have 2 tanks? basically mingas means each tank should have mingas/2 ?

- gas sharing while breathing off he left, you rather break away long hose and share, rather than whats in your mouth and you go to the clipped off one?

When can we go diving ??

( This weekend is out though .. :( I have a class )

[CaptnJack]

All of us locally (I think) are bungie-ing the left reg on our necks, its not really donatable. I know mine will not break away without some serious yanking. And then its not very long once you did get to it.

In theory, Min gas = min gas for me in the left tank + min gas for you in the right. You are thinking like an OW tech diver though. The reality for me is, the right tank is much more likely to be my reserve for some sort of "incident" in a cave, either with the left tank itself or a delay/entanglement/cut line etc which requires me to dip into my reserves.

SM is really silly for OW recreational diving IMHO. Jake's experimentation/boredom beating aside, why carry 2 tanks? Its like diving doubles to go to the I-beams I mean really, how necessary is that?

[Grateful Diver]

Two reasons I would still do it ... one I've already mentioned ... it's ideal for solo diving.

The other is simply that I like the feel of diving sidemount ... it just gives me more degrees of freedom than backmount does.

The "payment" is in the additional time and effort it takes to gear up and down.

And Koos ... I'll dive with you anytime ... would really enjoy it, in fact ... we just need to work out a time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[spatman]

So, let me ask this; If you had no issues with your backs and/or this was a different environment like warmer water where AL80 singles and doubles are much more manageable, would you still be doing sidemount?

I'd might still be diving doubles. Doubled al80s are much easier on my back and I have no trouble reaching my valves. But then again, knowing how comfortable sidemount is, I might try it out if I lived in warmer climes.

It seems like most non-tiny-restriction-cave-crawlers or people that are OK with carrying single or double tanks on their backs (assuming we are not talking about self reliance, but rather team based diving), would probably not see any sigificant benefit to jump to sidemount?

But, if you had any back issues, cant reach valves or dont want to hassle with the weight of regular back mounted gear or interested in crawling through tiny spaces or are into solo-self-reliant diving, then side-mount is a very attractive option?

There are pros and cons to both configs, but if the diver has no issue with the weight of doubles and reaching valves, then there isn't really any significant reason or advantage to switch to sidemount.

- How do you do min-gas and turn pressure calculations, now that you have 2 tanks? basically mingas means each tank should have mingas/2 ?

Yep, 1 diver per tank.

- gas sharing while breathing off he left, you rather break away long hose and share, rather than whats in your mouth and you go to the clipped off one?

Yes. It takes about a second to register which reg is where and unclip if necessary.

When can we go diving ??

My weekends are pretty free. I could probably work out a weekday too. Let me know.

SM is really silly for OW recreational diving IMHO. Jake's experimentation/boredom beating aside, why carry 2 tanks? Its like diving doubles to go to the I-beams I mean really, how necessary is that?

I honestly find it a lot more comfortable in the water, and have grown to prefer it over backmount. I'll take the extra tweaking and other tradeoffs for that.

[Dusty2]

i want to say thanks too. To kdupreez for asking and all the rest for the whys and wherefors. Lots of interesting info not canted toward the cave/warm water types. As a lurker I'm learning much.

[Tom Nic]

i want to say thanks too. To kdupreez for asking and all the rest for the whys and wherefors. Lots of interesting info not canted toward the cave/warm water types. As a lurker I'm learning much.

Agreed.

[LCF]

I'm not sidemount trained, and I only have about forty-five minutes in a well-adjusted sidemount rig, but I can give a reason why someone would want to dive that way -- It was the most amazing freedom in the water that I've ever felt. Putting the center of mass of the tanks right next to your own center of gravity makes you simultaneously amazingly stable and amazingly agile. There is no effort at all required to maintain whatever position or attitude in the water that you want. It's incredibly pleasant. After my "try dive", I was seriously interested in switching over . . . until I started diving stages in MX, and realized it's actually easier for me to carry two tanks down in "backpack" form, than it is to carry Al80's in my arms up and down multiple flights of stairs. I added that to the fact that SM is not standardized, and that the gear which is optimized for warm, fresh water seems to be different from that that works best in cold or salt water, and I just shrugged and kept doing what I was already doing.

[CaptnJack]

Not having any form of "backpack" for the preponderance of the mass is an issue, both for getting tank to the shore or on boats. Carrying a tank in your hands or arms to a cave entrance sucks! Maybe not in FL where its 100ft of flat sand from car to water. Locally its so sucky that I have to bring a seperate backpack to carry the tanks (one at a time) then don them as SM tanks later.

[spatman]

Managing the tanks can be a problem for some, but personally I prefer making multiple trips carrying less weight for each.

[CaptnJack]

Managing the tanks can be a problem for some, but personally I prefer making multiple trips carrying less weight for each.

Yeah not like I could carry doubles on a trail (I did once; nearly killed us). Having to bring along a backpack is small price to pay, but its for sure twice as many trips and for any decent distance (even just parking lot to Cove 2) most (all?) SM rigs are horribly suited for carrying tanks. Good thing we don't have swell to mess with putting them on.