Liquivision X1

[Kirby]

Have gotten about 40 dives now on my new liquivision, and must say am quite happy with it. The new updated software has dive planning software that works just like the copy of V-planner I used to have to run on my palm pilot. I have been using it side by side with my Nitek Duo on two gas dives and it comes out nearly the same on deco with the exception of giving you deeper stops. Anyone else diving this? I haven't heard any discussion since the battery questions. I had a display issue with the first one I received, sent it in and got a new one back in 3 days. The new one seems to have a new design on the bottom, the vent for gel extrusion is now on the side. Anyone getting bent on the deco algorithm? I am using conservatism 3 and so far am alive and unbent. I can't get used to the electronic compass, prefer my suunto, but I guess I am old school.

Kirby

[Grateful Diver]

I've got about 250-300 dives on the X1 ... maybe 30-40 of them tech dives. Haven't gotten bent yet.

I like the display ... especially on those deep, dark Lake Washington dives ... but I think my dive buddies like it even better than I do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Diver_C]

Talk to Sounder. He tells me it sucks. Her prefers the VR3.

[Diver_C]

[Note: I've been drinking, and got rid of a lot stress this afternoon, so one can't necessarily trust what I say Sounder believes.]

[LCF]

I've been diving a Liquivision for about a year now, I think. I love the thing. I didn't realize how much I loved it until I forgot to put it on my wrist on a cave dive in Mexico, and ended up doing the dive on my Mosquito which was in my pocket. By five minutes into the dive, I wanted to take the Mosquito and throw it against the wall. I'm ruined. I like a display where I can change the number size and the information displayed, and where I don't have to fiddle around trying to find the right angle to light it so I can read the numbers.

On the few decompression dives I've done with it, I've found +3 conservativism lines up quite well with the RD I've learned.

Great gadget. If it didn't have an endless thirst for electrons, I'd pronounce it perfect.

[Sounder]

Great gadget. If it didn't have an endless thirst for electrons, I'd pronounce it perfect.

The electron thirst has decreased with V-Planner Live v4.25 - we'll get you set up.

[spatman]

Anyone getting bent on the deco algorithm? I am using conservatism 3 and so far am alive and unbent.

the software on the X1 is V-Planner (although i think you can install another one, GAP, maybe?). so if people were getting bent on the X1 w/ VP, they would have been getting bent on VP a long time ago, anyway.

(someone correct me if i'm wrong... oh wait, this is NWDC, so it's likely that'll happen. :biggrin: )

[LCF]

No, it's V-planner, and you can now even run your tables on the little box as you used to on your laptop. It's a pretty extensively used piece of decompression software, which means it's about as validated as anything short of the Navy's tables is in the world of decompression diving.

[ljjames]

in the current world of 'sport/recreational' decompression diving perhaps

No, it's V-planner, and you can now even run your tables on the little box as you used to on your laptop. It's a pretty extensively used piece of decompression software, which means it's about as validated as anything short of the Navy's tables is in the world of decompression diving.

[Sounder]

in the current world of 'sport/recreational' decompression diving perhaps

No, it's V-planner, and you can now even run your tables on the little box as you used to on your laptop. It's a pretty extensively used piece of decompression software, which means it's about as validated as anything short of the Navy's tables is in the world of decompression diving.

I think it's fair to say that V-Planner is among the most used and trusted decompression software packages available. I don't have any statistical data to back this up (that'd be a question for Ross), but from my experience it is widely used, trusted, and enjoyed.

The Liquivision X1 runs a full version of V-Planner without approximations or other decreases in funtionality. V-Planner Live is what I run on my personal X1 unit.

[Grateful Diver]

in the current world of 'sport/recreational' decompression diving perhaps

... which is what this particular computer was designed for ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[RedOne]

in the current world of 'sport/recreational' decompression diving perhaps

... which is what this particular computer was designed for ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Just came back from Mexico and had opportunity to dove with dive buddy that had X1. I loved it on his hand during deco. I didn’t bother reading my bottom timer clock when his was easier to read.
I want to get one, but it is way too expensive.  Is it 1700$?
He dives his to 300 feet (deep) and beyond in Mexico caves (yes in Mexico!) and likes it very much.

[Kirby]

My Liquivision is dead. I must say I am not happy about this.

I left it connected to the charger next to my computer on a shelf about 3 ft above the desk top. When I went to retrieve it for a dive, the computer was laying on the desk, still attached to the charger with a crack in the display. The computer was still fully functional, but I didn't want to chance taking it into the water. I sent it back to the maker and was told that the cause of the crack was abuse, and that it was not repairable.

The first computer I bought from them had a display ooze shadow, and was returned and immediately exchanged. They said they would sell me a replacement unit at their cost.

On their support forum there are pictures of two computers with similar appearing cracks that were replaced by liquivision. On a subsequent post, one of the replacement computers had cracked after a couple of dives. I am not technically savy enough to know whether or not the crack came from trauma or pressure. If trauma, it came from a three foot fall to a wood top desk.

The computer displays are evidently prone to cracking for some reason, either due to pressure/temperature changes, or easily due to a blow that most computers could withstand without breakage. I find it interesting that the case/lens for this computer is not repairable/replaceable. This does not bode well for battery replacement issues.

I really loved this computer, but I am having serious misgivings on sending more money into it as I am now down 1700$ plus the cost of software (v planner). I tried my homeowners insurance, they said they would cover loss due to theft or fire, but not breakage.

Any one have any thoughts on this issue?

Kirby

[Curt McNamee]

Yes, purchase a Shearwater sorry, the door opened and I just had to say that

[Sounder]

Yes, purchase a Shearwater sorry, the door opened and I just had to say that

Does Shearwater's warranty cover gross mishandling? Liquivision's warranty does not.

Kirby, I'm sorry you felt it necessary to bring this public as this was explained to you very clearly when this incident first happened.

Your computer was broken due to very gross mishandling, just as we told you in our communications with you. The Liquivision X1 is anything but fragile. The cracks you referred to from the owner's forum were not due to mishandling as was in your case, but in contrast, they were due to a defect in the glass which became stressed under extreme thermal changes. These cracks are very easily identifiable and your computer did not have this defect. The thermal stress issue has been addressed since those reports.

The Liquivision X1 passed independent CE 13319 testing with flying colors. One of the tests in this rigorous process involves the dropping of a "hammer" of sorts, which is designed to test the durability of screens for units such as this, directly onto the screen and elsewhere on the casing. The X1 would not have received it's CE 13319 rating without passing this test, and many other tests, done by the independent lab. Further, the height the "hammer" is dropped from is 1 meter (approximately 3 feet, the same height as your desk). As the X1 passed an intentional directed impact, with implements designed to test the durability of the unit from a similar height as your desk, I would be very surprised if your desk was a more extreme environment than the test. If it was such an environment, it certainly would be ill advised to keep anything on that desk, especially an expensive piece of dive equipment.

As was explained to you in our communication, your situation is no different than having an expensive lamp on your desk that gets knocked off and breaks. It is not the manufacturer's fault that their product was broken due to your mishandling of it. I don't know what the circumstances are surrounding the incident where your X1 was broken, and it appears from your statement that you do not know exactly what happened either. There are additional concerns we shared with you via email as well if you recall.

If anyone has questions about the durability of the Liquivision X1, please let me know. If you would like to know more about the CE 13319 testing process, the processes are available for review under "CE Certification, EN 13319: Diving accessories - Depth gauges and combined time measuring devices."

-Doug (Liquivision Sales & Marketing)

[Curt McNamee]

Actually, Shearwater to this day has not charged for any repair on the Pursuit or GF models, if we had a display failure for whatever reason, we would just change the display out, our unit is not potted and it makes repairs easy and more cost effective.

It is a very reasonable position for any manufacture'r to not warrant repairs that are caused by user abuse.

Sorry, my post was not intended to be perceived as a slam, just in fun.

Both the X1 and Shearwater are great computers, they are built differently and have their own strong points and weak points.

Friendly competition and conversation is the best type to have.

Yes, purchase a Shearwater sorry, the door opened and I just had to say that

Does Shearwater's warranty cover gross mishandling? Liquivision's warranty does not.

Kirby, I'm sorry you felt it necessary to bring this public as this was explained to you very clearly when this incident first happened.

Your computer was broken due to very gross mishandling, just as we told you in our communications with you. The Liquivision X1 is anything but fragile. The cracks you referred to from the owner's forum were not due to mishandling as was in your case, but in contrast, they were due to a defect in the glass which became stressed under extreme thermal changes. These cracks are very easily identifiable and your computer did not have this defect. The thermal stress issue has been addressed since those reports.

The Liquivision X1 passed independent CE 13319 testing with flying colors. One of the tests in this rigorous process involves the dropping of a "hammer" of sorts, which is designed to test the durability of screens for units such as this, directly onto the screen and elsewhere on the casing. The X1 would not have received it's CE 13319 rating without passing this test, and many other tests, done by the independent lab. Further, the height the "hammer" is dropped from is 1 meter (approximately 3 feet, the same height as your desk). As the X1 passed an intentional directed impact, with implements designed to test the durability of the unit from a similar height as your desk, I would be very surprised if your desk was a more extreme environment than the test. If it was such an environment, it certainly would be ill advised to keep anything on that desk, especially an expensive piece of dive equipment.

As was explained to you in our communication, your situation is no different than having an expensive lamp on your desk that gets knocked off and breaks. It is not the manufacturer's fault that their product was broken due to your mishandling of it. I don't know what the circumstances are surrounding the incident where your X1 was broken, and it appears from your statement that you do not know exactly what happened either. There are additional concerns we shared with you via email as well if you recall.

If anyone has questions about the durability of the Liquivision X1, please let me know. If you would like to know more about the CE 13319 testing process, the processes are available for review under "CE Certification, EN 13319: Diving accessories - Depth gauges and combined time measuring devices."

-Doug (Liquivision Sales & Marketing)

[CaptnJack]

One person's "gross mishandling" is another person's ordinary diving/use.

I know I have dropped my uwatec gauge AT LEAST 1m on multiple occasions (like off the tailgate of my truck). Not only is it no apparent worse for wear; but even if it did break I'm glad it was a mere ~$225.

[LCF]

I've dropped my Liquivision (to my horror) more than once, and onto asphalt, to boot -- no cracks, thank goodness! They aren't exactly fragile . . .but I can certainly understand somebody being upset to have broken one.

[defied]

Well, as cool as the X1 sounds, That's too expensive for me to purchase, knowing that I'm not easy on my gear. I was in debate between that or a shearwater for my stupid expensive computer in the future. It has now been narrowed down.

I can certainly understand covering what is tested, and not covering general wear and tear, but I think mishaps like this should be fixed at least once, and maybe even tack on a Operator Error cost, which is nowhere near the cost price tag of the whole computer. More for the customer service side of it. An annual maintenance fee plus cost of the item being replaced.

D(B)

[Burntchef]

The potting process protects the internals from vibration damage which is why I can toss it up in the air and have it land on the trade show's thin carpet over concrete without causing any damage to the unit. Doing it at a dive site will likely scratch the aluminum casing, but if you'd like to see me do it, I'll be happy to toss my personal unit around the parking lot for anyone to witness.

all the details may not be present but if you are comfy with tossing it around the parking lot, its seems odd kirbys broke by falling off a ledge onto his desk.

kirby are there more details your leaving out?

[Sounder]

The potting process protects the internals from vibration damage which is why I can toss it up in the air and have it land on the trade show's thin carpet over concrete without causing any damage to the unit. Doing it at a dive site will likely scratch the aluminum casing, but if you'd like to see me do it, I'll be happy to toss my personal unit around the parking lot for anyone to witness.

all the details may not be present but if you are comfy with tossing it around the parking lot, its seems odd kirbys broke by falling off a ledge onto his desk.

kirby are there more details your leaving out?

Several members here have seen me toss demo units around Cove 2 parking lot, and others have seen them flung into the air at DEMA 08. The X1 is not fragile.

[kat]

might not be a bad idea to offer an "accident insurance" policy. something like $50 a year might be worth it for both parties. just a thought, it seems that the rate of failure is pretty low, but it gives added peace of mind. that of course assumes human honesty...

[Grateful Diver]

might not be a bad idea to offer an "accident insurance" policy. something like $50 a year might be worth it for both parties. just a thought, it seems that the rate of failure is pretty low, but it gives added peace of mind. that of course assumes human honesty...

You can already get that ... it's called DEPP (Diver's Equipment Protection Program).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[defied]

Several members here have seen me toss demo units around Cove 2 parking lot, and others have seen them flung into the air at DEMA 08. The X1 is not fragile.

Soooo..... If you can throw it around, and not break it, and his falls off a shelf and breaks... wouldn't that insinuate that there was a flaw before the unit fell that could cause it to be damaged so easily?

This might be a little too high tech for me.

D(B)

[kat]

aaah, i was unaware. good to know.

edit: those are great prices! has anyone ever had cause to deal with them?