Gas Type and Price.

[loanwolf]

I am running this again to get us all acquainted with what current pricing is. Please take the Pole then post up what you paid for your last bottles and who from. It is nice to compare and see if we can keep things honest.


Cental Welding
AV-O2 ----------------------- 240cf - $48.00
HP-He ----------------------- 240cf - $145.00
Welding Grade Argon -------240cf - $45.00

[camerone]

Central - the helium was about the same. I went with the welding O2 'cause it's all coming from the same fill station. Around $25-30 for a 240 cf. Friendly folks, and they don't ask too many questions Surprisingly, they are also the most reasonable on helium... Airgas and Praxair were all quoting outrageously high prices last I talked to them. I'm assuming it's just because they didn't want to deal with a small order, as there's nobody out there who would be stupid enough to pay what they were quoting.

[loanwolf]

Central - the helium was about the same. I went with the welding O2 'cause it's all coming from the same fill station. Around $25-30 for a 240 cf. Friendly folks, and they don't ask too many questions Surprisingly, they are also the most reasonable on helium... Airgas and Praxair were all quoting outrageously high prices last I talked to them. I'm assuming it's just because they didn't want to deal with a small order, as there's nobody out there who would be stupid enough to pay what they were quoting.

Cam are you filling your own bottles or are you rotaing?

[camerone]

Cam are you filling your own bottles or are you rotaing?

Swap of owned bottles... One bottle I got from Craigslist for $75, and one came with the compressor. I just keep one each O2 & He, plus a booster pump to take me to full fills. With the rebreather, I really don't need more. Rent on a bottle is $100/year, so I've already come out ahead. The only thing ridiculous is paying new prices for the storage bank...

Sure, I dream of a fill station like Wayne's at Amigo's http://www.amigosdivecenter.com/fills.html, but it's a little overkill for my needs. I wish our LDS up here were anywhere close to as cool as Amigos...that place is my new all-time favorite dive shop... massive cascades of banked air, 32%, 10/50, and O2, and a true fill-it-yerself, so you can get 3600psi+ fills in the LP steel rebreather bottles.

[CaptnJack]

Industrial He is about $125 for 300cf
Industrial O2 is about $18 for 125cf (I have 4 of these to make a transfill cascade, pricier than the 240cf bottles but I'm able to rotate through faster and always have a full one on hand)
Argon I forget cause I don't bring that in very often. $80 for 300cf I think??

I swap bottles I own.

[Paulicarp]

Industrial He is about $125 for 300cf
Industrial O2 is about $18 for 125cf

obviously industrial grade is good enough for diving, or you wouldn't be using it. What grades of gas do you consider inadequate for life support at depth?

[LCF]

I don't buy T-bottles.

I paid about $36 for a 25/25 fill in Double 85s.

I paid $20 for a 500 psi topoff in a 40 cf O2 bottle -- I think that was an error, but haven't had a chance to discuss it with the shop.

[boydski]

My contract prices for gas have gone up about 30% this year. I use Pacific Welding and swap owned cylinders (ten total 300cf cylinder + booster).

Industrial Oxygen 300cf less than $20 (retail is $59)
Industrial Helium 300cf about $100 (retail is $200)
I'm not sure on the Argon, Industrial 300cf somewhere in the $70-$80 range.

[CaptnJack]

Industrial He is about $125 for 300cf
Industrial O2 is about $18 for 125cf

obviously industrial grade is good enough for diving, or you wouldn't be using it. What grades of gas do you consider inadequate for life support at depth?

Industrial helium from my supplier is ironically better than USP. USP is only "certified" for human consumption as a drug at 1ATA, there's no warranty for diving. And welding is actually more sensitive to many contaminants than human lungs.

Regardless of grade the "nines" (e.g. 99.99% vs 99.999%), the contaminant you care about is total hydrocarbons (which end up being narcotic, which is really a fancy word for non-specific cellular toxicity) and anything less than 5ppm hydrocarbons is considered suitable. UHP and other grades of helium come with increasingly rigorous paper trails (and individual serial numbers on the tanks) documenting the analysis. Industrial does not have a paper trail and the tanks may have fewer vacuums pulled on them before refilling etc. Otherwise its all coming from the same cryogenic sources. I wouldn't breath "ballon grade" helium cause just about anything lighter than air might be in there. But I don't even know a source to buy that grade.

Industrial O2 = every other grade of O2 they all come from the same cryogenic source. The only real contaminant here is methane and there really won't ever be enough to care about.

[CaptnJack]

My contract prices for gas have gone up about 30% this year. I use Pacific Welding and swap owned cylinders (ten total 300cf cylinder + booster).

Industrial Oxygen 300cf less than $20 (retail is $59)
Industrial Helium 300cf about $100 (retail is $200)
I'm not sure on the Argon, Industrial 300cf somewhere in the $70-$80 range.

Are they cool with selling to individuals? I have 7 owned cylinders and need a new supplier since I am moving out of Ballard. I see they have a store in Bremerton which would be convenient for me in the new Port Orchard digs.

[boydski]

Are they cool with selling to individuals? I have 7 owned cylinders and need a new supplier since I am moving out of Ballard. I see they have a store in Bremerton which would be convenient for me in the new Port Orchard digs.

Hi Richard,

Absolutely cool with selling to individuals and they know exactly what I'm doing with the gas, which was very helpful once when they accidentally gave me balloon-grade Helium. There was a voice mail waiting on my phone when I arrived home asking me not to breath the stuff and to bring it back and swap it out for the good stuff (note, they no longer even carry balloon grade Helium).

When are you moving to Port Orchard? We might have to actually go diving together nearby one of these days....

Scott

[CaptnJack]

Are they cool with selling to individuals? I have 7 owned cylinders and need a new supplier since I am moving out of Ballard. I see they have a store in Bremerton which would be convenient for me in the new Port Orchard digs.

Hi Richard,

Absolutely cool with selling to individuals and they know exactly what I'm doing with the gas, which was very helpful once when they accidentally gave me balloon-grade Helium. There was a voice mail waiting on my phone when I arrived home asking me not to breath the stuff and to bring it back and swap it out for the good stuff.

When are you moving to Port Orchard? We might have to actually go diving together nearby one of these days....

Scott

Excellent I'll give them a call. I have a small cascade of 125cf O2 bottles (4) which I actually "made" by partial trade in out of 2x 240cf bottles. I wasn't CBing 32% fast enough from the larger size to have a full supply cylinder on hand for 100% fills. Generally 2000psi of 100% in an al40 is enough for my deco and then some. If not I take it to NWSD for a 3000psi fill.

We close over in Southworth (sorta Port Orchard) on 11/18. I was hoping to get out to "the Knuckle" sometime shortly thereafter!

[loanwolf]

Industrial He is about $125 for 300cf
Industrial O2 is about $18 for 125cf

obviously industrial grade is good enough for diving, or you wouldn't be using it. What grades of gas do you consider inadequate for life support at depth?

Industrial helium from my supplier is ironically better than USP. USP is only "certified" for human consumption as a drug at 1ATA, there's no warranty for diving. And welding is actually more sensitive to many contaminants than human lungs.

Regardless of grade the "nines" (e.g. 99.99% vs 99.999%), the contaminant you care about is total hydrocarbons (which end up being narcotic, which is really a fancy word for non-specific cellular toxicity) and anything less than 5ppm hydrocarbons is considered suitable. UHP and other grades of helium come with increasingly rigorous paper trails (and individual serial numbers on the tanks) documenting the analysis. Industrial does not have a paper trail and the tanks may have fewer vacuums pulled on them before refilling etc. Otherwise its all coming from the same cryogenic sources. I wouldn't breath "ballon grade" helium cause just about anything lighter than air might be in there. But I don't even know a source to buy that grade.

Industrial O2 = every other grade of O2 they all come from the same cryogenic source. The only real contaminant here is methane and there really won't ever be enough to care about.

Central has told me that we should be using HP. 1 in 10 skids can be made into HP. HE is coming from the oil fields and industrial grades can contain Benzine, radon, and some other really bad stuff. granted in small quantity's but it can be in their. Were HP is tested and certified for that. as it was explained to me by them.

[CaptnJack]

Central has told me that we should be using HP. 1 in 10 skids can be made into HP. HE is coming from the oil fields and industrial grades can contain Benzine, radon, and some other really bad stuff. granted in small quantity's but it can be in their. Were HP is tested and certified for that. as it was explained to me by them.

It ALL comes from natural gas production and is cryogenically seperated and all grades of helium are producted at the same plant in the same way. Its the bottle handling which is different. The biggest risk with non-documented grades (i.e. grades with no or little per bottle paper trail) is getting another inert gas by mistake. Both helium, argon and nitrogen use the same valve and there's a greater than zero risk of getting a CGA580 valved cylinder which says one gas on the sticker but contains another. Pretty easy to test that tho, I just do a squeak (voice) test on every supply cylinder I get. I tried with an argon cylinder once and there's no way you'd get confused by that tone!

(benzene freezes solid at 5C while radon freezes at -71C, the separation of He intentionally cools the gas below that to remove those contaminants)

[loanwolf]

Central has told me that we should be using HP. 1 in 10 skids can be made into HP. HE is coming from the oil fields and industrial grades can contain Benzine, radon, and some other really bad stuff. granted in small quantity's but it can be in their. Were HP is tested and certified for that. as it was explained to me by them.

It ALL comes from natural gas production and is cryogenically seperated and all grades of helium are producted at the same plant in the same way. Its the bottle handling which is different. The biggest risk with non-documented grades (i.e. grades with no or little per bottle paper trail) is getting another inert gas by mistake. Both helium, argon and nitrogen use the same valve and there's a greater than zero risk of getting a CGA580 valved cylinder which says one gas on the sticker but contains another. Pretty easy to test that tho, I just do a squeak (voice) test on every supply cylinder I get. I tried with an argon cylinder once and there's no way you'd get confused by that tone!

(benzene freezes solid at 5C while radon freezes at -71C, the separation of He intentionally cools the gas below that to remove those contaminants)

I always worry unless I am getting my own cylinders filled.

[4ster]

Local welding shop
AV-O2 ----------------------- 240cf - $26.75
Welding Grade Argon -------?cf - $?.00 smaller cylinder, about the same size as a 100cf scuba cylinder.
Cental Welding
HP-He ----------------------- 240cf - $155.00

I own the cylinders, I was getting medical O2 but the AV was cheaper so am doing that now. I am not going to keep the argon, I don't like the idea of putting that through my booster and I don't want to invest in a separate argon booster. When I feel I really need argon, I'll go to a local shop for a fill.