weird fold in my DSS wing

[spatman]

when my wing is inflated this strange fold appears and causes the upper part to crease in a weird way. it's always done it, and i just thought it was somewhat normal, but lately i've seen others that don't do this.

should i be concerned? is it worth contacting tobin about?

[smike]

You have the pictures, I would just send them to Tobin, he would be happy to look at them.

Mike

[CaptnJack]

does it do that on the tank as well?
functionally a problem in the water?

[spatman]

does it do that on the tank as well?
functionally a problem in the water?

it does do that on the tank as well. functionally, it doesn't lay as flat as it should and the inflator's elbow sometimes bumps against my first stage, making venting a little bit of a nuisance.

[sheahanmcculla]

I know it's not DSS, but I was cleaning my Apeks wing the other night and I inflated it all the way and noticed the same thing. So Maybe it's not all that uncommon.

[Sounder]

Mine does the same thing when VERY inflated.

[Mongodives]

My DSS wing does the same, I asked Tobin about it. Tobin's response wasn't very nice or understanding. He basically told me that I don't understand his product and I'm not using correctly and I should spend my money elsewhere.

[spatman]

My DSS wing does the same, I asked Tobin about it. Tobin's response wasn't very nice or understanding. He basically told me that I don't understand his product and I'm not using correctly and I should spend my money elsewhere.

i sent him an email right after i posted those pics, just asking if it was normal, and his replies were really snarky, and annoyed me. poor form for a business owner, imo.

[CaptnJack]

My DSS wing does the same, I asked Tobin about it. Tobin's response wasn't very nice or understanding. He basically told me that I don't understand his product and I'm not using correctly and I should spend my money elsewhere.

i sent him an email right after i posted those pics, just asking if it was normal, and his replies were really snarky, and annoyed me. poor form for a business owner, imo.

Tobin does not like criticism or take it well at all. I told him his SMB was great but too small and the taper design would be better applied to large SMBs and boy did I get an earful. Ditto when I told him his plates are too flat and people were challenged by the bolt length on rental doubles. And that if he went with a more "industry standard" bend there would be fewer conflicts.

His products are perfect and don't you dare try to tell him their weaknesses or how his designs could be improved.

[spatman]

Tobin does not like criticism or take it well at all. I told him his SMB was great but too small and the taper design would be better applied to large SMBs and boy did I get an earful. Ditto when I told him his plates are too flat and people were challenged by the bolt length on rental doubles. And that if he went with a more "industry standard" bend there would be fewer conflicts.

His products are perfect and don't you dare try to tell him their weaknesses or how his designs could be improved.

"I am an art-eest, and can not work under these conditions!"

but seriously, it's a shame he has this attitude. he's a really bright, innovative guy and has a lot to offer.

[Pinkpadigal]

If I had to guess, he feels like questions or criticism of his product are an insult to him. He puts a lot of himself into the products and when he is challenged, he takes it personally. I understand, but it sounds like he could be more gracious about it.

I have heard nothing but good things about his products and everyone seems to like them.

[Sockmonkey]

I have heard nothing but good things about his products and everyone seems to like them.

Including CaptnJack and Spatman

-Eric

[Joshua Smith]

Tobin does not like criticism or take it well at all. I told him his SMB was great but too small and the taper design would be better applied to large SMBs and boy did I get an earful. Ditto when I told him his plates are too flat and people were challenged by the bolt length on rental doubles. And that if he went with a more "industry standard" bend there would be fewer conflicts.

His products are perfect and don't you dare try to tell him their weaknesses or how his designs could be improved.

"I am an art-eest, and can not work under these conditions!"

but seriously, it's a shame he has this attitude. he's a really bright, innovative guy and has a lot to offer.

Tobin's notorious for blowing his lid over the smallest of percieved slights. I do think that he is a particular kind of genius. He manufactures some very high quality gear. But he's kind of like Henry Ford- you can order a car in any color you desire, as long as that color is black.

[CaptnJack]

I have heard nothing but good things about his products and everyone seems to like them.

Including CaptnJack and Spatman

-Eric

In general I like his products. They are high quality and seem pretty durable. They also basically "work" off the shelf no shortening of inflator hoses or jimmie jangling things together. And their prices are competitive. Those qualities are not exclusive to DSS tho. HOG, Oxycheq, and Halcyon are all comperable manufacturers depending on the exact details of what you need.

DSS plates for traveling doubles rental? not a ideal. His tiny lil SMB on the Bunker Hill? ditto. There are a few other items I question, like his valve tool which seems like a really expensive screwdriver with a notch in the end.

[smike]

While Tobin apparently has some faults (some think so), I have also found him to be quite generous, I've seen him will bend over backwards (not a pretty sight) to help people.

Dignifying a person will almost always get you the furthest. No matter what you think of them, treat them as someone better than yourself. Often people suffer from a low self esteem, and those are often the same ones who (unknowingly?) act haughty. Lift them up as best you can, often they will return the favor.

S'Mike

[airsix]

Great post, S'Mike.

[Sockmonkey]

[Joshua Smith]

Genius.

[ljjames]

having to postpone a dive due to long bolt is a pain in the ass... er... back. Specially if you don't quite notice before putting them on your back and standing up to take over to the picnic table. it can even be a bit hazardous to you and your drysuit (speaking from experience).

And don't let someone tell you that "'once you have your drysuit and underwear on, you won't notice". You'll still notice.

On the bright side, if you put a couple spare wingnuts, extra washers and a bolt snap or two behind the plate on the long bolt to shim out the plate, sometimes you can jury rig it enough to do your dive anyway

[airsix]

So there are problems at both ends of the spectrum?

Bolts-too-long would mean the plate is too deep. (plate maker would argue that no, bolts are just too long)
Bolts-too-short would mean the plat is too flat. (plate maker would argue that no, bolts are just too short)

Right?

[BDub]

So there are problems at both ends of the spectrum?

Bolts-too-long would mean the plate is too deep.
Bolts-too-short would mean the plat is too flat.

Right?

In my experience (I don't own a DSS plate, but have buddies who do), the plate is too flat, meaning the bolts aren't long enough

[Tangfish]

I think my Torus wing might do that too, Spat.

Eric, that cartoon sums up my daily dealings at Newsvine. As does this one:

[CaptnJack]

So there are problems at both ends of the spectrum?

Bolts-too-long would mean the plate is too deep. (plate maker would argue that no, bolts are just too long)
Bolts-too-short would mean the plat is too flat. (plate maker would argue that no, bolts are just too short)

Right?

If the bend in the plate is "too deep" the bolts stil won't gouge you if they are the correct length. FredT plates have a massive bend and work fine with longish bolts setup by DSS plate owners. The plate rests on your shoulder blades and outer edges of hips regardless of the bend in the middle. Bending over so your spine sticks out may be a bit uncomfortable but is self-limiting.

[LCF]

You know, I talked to Tobin about this thread, and he shared with me a couple of the e-mails he sent. Knowing him as I do, I can hear his voice, and I can hear the gentle humor he intended in his phrasing. But I have to say that, if I didn't know him, they would have sounded dismissive and curt. I told him that. It's SO hard to know how people will read what you write, when you know exactly what you MEANT.

[CaptnJack]

As a side note he actually makes his plates flatter because they work better without and STA on single tanks that way. A FredT plate could never be used on a single tank without an STA its like trying to tie the tips of 2 triangles together.