Northwest Diver Credo?

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:52 am

So, maybe credo isn't the right word, but here is my thought:

The recent incident at Lobster Shop Wall, as well as the Cove 2 incident this past summer has got me thinking. My conclusion is that there are some important differences between diving in the Pacific Northwest and diving on a vacation in, say, a place like Cozumel, and these differences are defined by the conditions and sites we dive in.

Because of that, I was wondering if a worthwhile project would be to put together something like the "10 Principles of Diving in the PNW". There are a lot of knowledgable divers on this board that could contribute their thoughts, and I know that people like Bob and BDub have already put a fair amount of consideration into what specific skills are needed to dive safely up here.

If we could get this together in a simple, easy to read format, we could then see if collectively we could get this posted at dive shops and sites. I know there is something like this at Edmonds, but I'm not aware of other places. One of the other realizations I've had is that it is really easy to get exposure to concepts you may not have understood or seen as important by reading these boards, but that those concepts need to be extended to people that don't participate in these forums.

What I don't know is if something like this already exists. If it does, let me know, if it doesn't, let me know what your thoughts are on this.

-Doug

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:02 am

What kind of suggestions? Something like dive within your limits and "never go deeper in feet, than you have cu' in your tank (80cu'=80fsw max)." I believe that's a BDub motto?

Solid, simple advice.

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:05 am

I'm not sure that there's really that much which is exclusive to the PNW...

Its cold and exposure suits are thicker and divers probably want a drysuit which adds to overall task loading, but I don't think there's anything truly unique...

Just look at the recent near fatality in cozumel where divers on Al80s were at 100+ fsw in a swimthrough (aka overhead) and one of the divers wound up stopping breathing and suffering from near drowning...

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:10 am

Sounder wrote:What kind of suggestions? Something like dive within your limits and "never go deeper in feet, than you have cu' in your tank (80cu'=80fsw max)." I believe that's a BDub motto? Solid, simple advice.

Yeah, things like that. Easily digestable one-liners that would either give someone pause, or cause them to think and evaluate their own skills.

Solid, simple, soundbites, but more than "plan your dive, dive your plan."

I'm thinking the core areas would address the following:

1) Gas management (boiled down, using BDub's rule of thumb, and probably asking whether you have the gas to get you and your buddy back to the surface).

2) Site evaluation: currents, navigation etc.

3) Skills evaluation: can you respond to anticipated and unanticipated emergencies in a reasonable manner?

We may need to package it in a catchy manner. Given scuba politics, I think it may have value coming from a dive club rather than a particular agency or shop. That being said, it could also be something that is either developed by multiple dive clubs or is endorsed by the area clubs.

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:18 am

lamont wrote:I'm not sure that there's really that much which is exclusive to the PNW...

Its cold and exposure suits are thicker and divers probably want a drysuit which adds to overall task loading, but I don't think there's anything truly unique...

Just look at the recent near fatality in cozumel where divers on Al80s were at 100+ fsw in a swimthrough (aka overhead) and one of the divers wound up stopping breathing and suffering from near drowning...

Yeah, sure, these are all basic issues. My point is one of marketing, really. If you can get someone's attention by emphasizing the hazards of diving here specifically (which are admittedly the same at other sites) then that may give them pause and cause them to think a bit.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:29 am

A t-shirt with the the "Top 10 things to know for Pacific NW diving" would be great... focused on safety instead of humor (although humor is always appreciated).

Safety:
"Our water is cold and dark, and our vis sucks. This isn't Hawaii."

"Do you have enough gas to get your buddy to the surface too?"

"Stop, breathe, think, react."

Maybe a gas planning mathematical break-down based on cu', ATA, and time outlining why we want larger tanks.

Humor (I'm sure others can come up with much better than this):

"Our octopus is bigger than yours, and our sharks have 6 gills."

"Have you hugged a wolfeel today?"

"Argon saved my marriage."

Ok, I KNOW there are far more clever people here than me.

Six Gill · Post by **Six Gill** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:54 am

Great idea - Good comments so far!

1. Know your limits
2. Dive your limits
3. Know your buddy
4. Dive with your buddy
5. Buddy checks
6. Be willing to call the dive if necessary
7. Have FUN
8. Enjoy the LIFE and the EXPERIENCE

Okay, I know there are creative people out there that can make this fun; (Bob, nice poem)

When I dive with a new person to the NW or to diving, their comfort level is paramount and they also need to understand what that is. An understanding of proper limits in this environment is imperative as well. 100 feet in Cozumel is a far cry from 100' on Dalco Wall. Accidents that have happened recently have not been just one thing but rather a layering of poor decisions or poor conditions that just adds to the risk already involved. It's never just one thing; but by putting safety first and realizing that there are dangers in this beautiful environment that we are not native to without our SCUBA gear can keep us safe. And dive with people who echo the same safe pattern that you do. Educate, educate, educate.

Have a great Thanksgiving all and be safe out there.

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:58 am

Sounder wrote: "Argon saved my marriage."

Ok, I KNOW there are far more clever people here than me.

I dunno, that is pretty clever. It made me snort at work.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:02 am

Well, it hasn't saved my marriage yet... but it will, I'm sure. Hence the urgency in looking for the right Ar rig. $\:D/$

Here's another one:

"Thumbs down are great; thumbs up are just fine too."

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:13 am

"Our water is cold and dark, and our vis sucks. This isn't Hawaii."

I really like this one.. It kind of brings home a lot of what it is to dive in PNW.. Kind of along the line of a shirt I love which says "Warm water is for baths...Dive Puget Sound" ....

I think that would be a great front to a T-shirt and then on the back you could add the different task loading items that we have to do that make it so much more tricky to dive here.. I really don't know what I am talking about as I have only ever dived in the PNW but still... ok here are some items...

1. You NEED a light.. Remember our vis sucks, if you don't have one just go ahead and put on a blind fold you'll see just as much.
2. You NEED a knife... We have people who fish out there.. And if you can't see the line because you didn't bring your damn light your gonna need a knife to get yourself out.
3. You NEED a warm suit...Dry or Wet, Hypothermia kills don't let it happen to you..
4. You NEED air.. Remember when it's cold, dark, and wet you are going to be freaked out and go through more air.

Anyway some of them are dumb but I think that's what we are talking about...

nwscubamom · Post by **nwscubamom** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:22 pm

I always say,

"Lights on for Safety"

Dive lights aren't just for looking at stuff - they're critical when locating a buddy in bad vis!

- Janna

diver-dad · Post by **diver-dad** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:40 pm

IMO, I like the idea of the 10 principles, but frankly those will only be paid attention to by the good divers.

The people who want to ignore the rules already know the rules - they choose to violate them.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:56 pm

Sounder wrote: "Our octopus is bigger than yours, and our sharks have 6 gills."

"Have you hugged a wolfeel today?"

"Argon saved my marriage."

I love it!

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:59 pm

diver-dad wrote:IMO, I like the idea of the 10 principles, but frankly those will only be paid attention to by the good divers.

The people who want to ignore the rules already know the rules - they choose to violate them.

Agreed DD, but I still think it's a worthy endeavor.
First it's fun, second it WILL help educate impressionable newbs (which IMHO is REALLY important to concentrate on), and finally if it even reaches a couple of people it's worth it from that standpoint. I don't think any of us has a messiah complex, it would just be great to help educate any way we can, and humor and brevity are important parts of education.

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:26 pm

One huge difference between diving here and places like Cozumel, is the fact that you have no babysitter/tour guide/DM to make sure you don't kill yourself. Dive buddies are a must, of course, but they don't have the same level of experience (nor should they) as the tropical DMs do, who take care of one happy-go-lucky dive tourist after another. That was the biggest adjustment for me, and also the reason I had to learn to navigate myself, to deal with equipment problems and to generally watch out for myself. Most of this is all done for you on dive vacations or charters in the tropics.

diver-dad · Post by **diver-dad** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:35 pm

Tom Nic wrote: ... Agreed DD, but I still think it's a worthy endeavor.
First it's fun, second it WILL help educate impressionable newbs (which IMHO is REALLY important to concentrate on), and finally if it even reaches a couple of people it's worth it from that standpoint. .... it would just be great to help educate any way we can, and humor and brevity are important parts of education.

Tom -

I guess I was a little abrupt in my comment (still feeling frustrated by the recent accident

)

- I do agree with what you've said for the same reasons you stated - and fully support the idea.

... Plus, you're right - it'd be a fun thing to banter around for us, it'll help others, and maybe spark some deeper reflection in examining why we do what we do.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:37 pm

diver-dad wrote:
Tom Nic wrote: ... Agreed DD, but I still think it's a worthy endeavor.
First it's fun, second it WILL help educate impressionable newbs (which IMHO is REALLY important to concentrate on), and finally if it even reaches a couple of people it's worth it from that standpoint. .... it would just be great to help educate any way we can, and humor and brevity are important parts of education.
Tom -

I guess I was a little abrupt in my comment (still feeling frustrated by the recent accident )

- I do agree with what you've said for the same reasons you stated - and fully support the idea. ... Plus, you're right - it'd be a fun thing to banter around for us, it'll help others, and maybe spark some deeper reflection in examining why we do what we do.

No worries... I didn't take you as abrupt. I was just having too much fun laughing at all the great potential T-Shirt slogans!! :rr:

diver-dad · Post by **diver-dad** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:53 pm

I thought I'd throw out a (very highly plagarized) top ten list from my line of work ...

Now you're going to read these and probably think that
(a) it's too hard core, probably is ... but we gotta start somewhere.
(b) it is not special for Puget Sound - and it isn't.

No pride in ownership here .... if you don't care for them, that's OK by me ....

1. Conservatism in dive planning & operation
2. Plan the dive and dive the plan
3. Follow approved procedures that you trained on
4. Don't "live with" deficient equipment or dive buddies
5. Use proper, practiced communication techniques
6. Get training and qualification from the best people who are dedicated to excellence
7. Seek out mentoring from more experienced people
8. Attention to detail
9. Regular equipment inspections and maintenance
10. Enforcement of standards

Whatcha think?

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:54 pm

One huge difference between diving here and places like Cozumel, is the fact that you have no babysitter/tour guide/DM to make sure you don't kill yourself. Dive buddies are a must, of course, but they don't have the same level of experience (nor should they) as the tropical DMs do, who take care of one happy-go-lucky dive tourist after another. That was the biggest adjustment for me, and also the reason I had to learn to navigate myself, to deal with equipment problems and to generally watch out for myself. Most of this is all done for you on dive vacations or charters in the tropics.

Ok I will add to my list then...

5. You NEED a dive buddy. We don't have no stinking dive masters here to hold your hand..
6. You NEED a compass. When you cant see because you didn't think you needed a light a compass might not help you.. But if all you see is the plankton bloom you might want to refer to your compass.

Again.. Those are kind of dumb but you get my drift...

Pinkpadigal · Post by **Pinkpadigal** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:43 pm

Calvin Tang wrote:One huge difference between diving here and places like Cozumel, is the fact that you have no babysitter/tour guide/DM to make sure you don't kill yourself. Dive buddies are a must, of course, but they don't have the same level of experience (nor should they) as the tropical DMs do, who take care of one happy-go-lucky dive tourist after another. That was the biggest adjustment for me, and also the reason I had to learn to navigate myself, to deal with equipment problems and to generally watch out for myself. Most of this is all done for you on dive vacations or charters in the tropics.

Why do you think that DMs in Cozumel "fight" to be with groups from the PNW? They don't have to work as hard. They know "most" of us know how to dive, and we dive more than once a year.

As for a list, I agree with Diver-Dad; people may know the rules but chose to abuse them. I would go a more humor route, with an undercurrent of hard facts. These are rules that I have used over the years when I teach my classes. The humor gets them laughing but it also helps them remember too.

Rule #1: Breathe. Inhale...Exhale. All the time. You can do it!!!
Rule #2: Dive with a buddy. Your buddy will be able to confirm that you really saw 2 six-gills yesterday at Les Davis.
Rule #3: Always look good. No, not the matching pink fins with the mask (but if you want to, that is good) but keep all your gear trimmed safely to your body. That includes diving like you are being filmed for National Geographic, not America's funniest home Videos.
Rule #4: Take care of your gear and have it serviced annually. If I am your buddy, and I need your AAS, it better be working properly.
Rule #5: It doesn't matter what kind of water you are diving in, bring a light, compass and knife. Besides, your buddy might forget his and you will be a hero if he gets tangled in fishing line, in the dark and gets lost.
Rule #6: Wear proper exposure gear for the conditions. Your cute little bikini isn't going to keep you warm, even in 80 degree pool, let alone Puget Sound.
Rule #7: If you breathe like a hoover, buy a tank designed for people like you. If for no other reason, people won't point and laugh when you are out of air in 15 minutes.
Rule #8: Dive only to the depth and conditions you have been trained. While there no "PADI Police" at 60 ft to check your C-Card, there is a reason why you need more training to go deeper.
Rule #9: Don't F@#% with the wildlife. Most of it is harmless but some of them bite. Then your buddy will be mad because his dive was cut short because he had to drag you to the surface to escape the pissed off cabazon you wanted to "pet"
Rule #10: Continue your education. It is so much cooler to tell people your are a "Dive Master" than just an "Open Water Diver"

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:00 pm

I disagree with Rule #6! I think "cute little (emphasis on little) bikinis" DO have a place in the swimming pool during dive class. When you get cold, I'm sure there's a willing buddy around to help keep you warm... which takes us to Rule #2 - always dive with a buddy. If you can't find a buddy at the pool and want to wear your "cute little bikini," I'll happily be your buddy. $\:D/$

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:26 pm

Sounder wrote: If you can't find a buddy at the pool and want to wear your "cute little bikini," I'll happily be your buddy. $\:D/$

Sounder, you are going to need more than argon to save your marriage . . .

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:36 pm

Indeed! Sometime you'll get to know Mrs. Sounder! GD has had the pleasure and can testify to her being a sweet girl and a firecracker at the same time. She's extremely smart and is a professional arguer.

I must say though, she did look cute in her bikini during OW in the pool... that is, before she put her shorty wetsuit on. AND now that she's got that damn shorty, she won't wakeboard in anything else, even if it's July! ](*,) I hate that wetsuit!

Santa is bringing her an argon rig for Christmas.

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:43 pm

so my thoughts on PNW diving:

- its cold, dress appropriately
- its more stressful, bring more gas
- its dark, bring some good lights
- its murky, bring a compass
- its independent diving without a dm,
-- bring good basic skills
-- bring good buddy skills
-- bring good dive planning
-- bring good gas management
-- take it easy
- the slugs are pretty, bring a camera
- the 6-gills are creepy in the dark, bring a change of underwear

bnboly · Post by **bnboly** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:23 pm

I think there needs to be one about:

- Never be afraid to call a dive!