When in Rome... or selling used gear...

[kitsapdiver]

So I guess I was interested in something I read in Sounds NHZ forum and wanted to get people to weigh in. Sounder says in his post that he wants to see a C-Card for anyone who wants to buy the HP-80s he's offering and a Nitrox C-Card if they want to walk out the door with the 32 they have in em'. And this got me to thinking. Right now I've horded every piece of dive gear I've ever owned, and have never had the need to wonder this. But what items would you ask to see a C-Card when selling.

It seems to me that tanks are not one of those items IMO. Cylinders have purposes outside of scuba diving a paintball fanatic has every right to a scuba cylinder.

I do understand wanting to see the Nitrox card if they are going to take them full.

The big item I would want to see the C card before selling is a Regulator.

A computer would also be a good item because there really is no other use, and it can lead people down the road to thinking they don't need any additional insturction.

[Sounder]

I agree, and would do the same with a regulator. Computer is an interesting point, and I generally agree with you there too though I hadn't considered that. Tanks are also in that category for me.

To be frank, there is little to no liability in selling used gear for an unregulated sport... less liability than, say, even selling a firearm via private-sale which subsequently used in a crime. For me, its piece of mind... whatever happens with those tanks once they leave my possession is on the new owner. Knowing their certified brings me a sense of due diligence and as such, I'm asking for it. It's no different than verifying a CPL permit on someone I'm selling a firearm to. It's primarily for me, and my own piece of mind.

However, if someone showed up to buy it and was clearly using it for Jeep tires or paintball, I'd be open to selling it to them. At a point, it's a "trust my gut" situation.

At least that's my reasoning behind it. Good thread!!

[LCF]

It had never occurred to me to inquire as to someone's bonafides when they bought our used gear. We haven't sold much, and some of it has been to people we knew, so it wasn't an issue. But we did sell a couple of BCs to strangers.

I thought the point about seeing a Nitrox card to buy a tank full of it was a good one. Not that I would ever sell a tank, mind you

[Joe Blow]

I understand about Nitrox, but everything else is something I find funny. People policing what others do with an item, Who cares? Your selling it because you need cash.

[Sounder]

I understand about Nitrox, but everything else is something I find funny. People policing what others do with an item, Who cares? Your selling it because you need cash.

Not quite. I'm selling it because I don't need the item - in the case of the tanks, I have a herd of single 130s and several sets of doubles along with deco bottles and argon bottles still in the garage. I just don't need the HP80s anymore.

I'm asking for the card because in an unregulated sport, I feel a personal sense of responsibility to ensure I'm not enabling someone to do something I consider dangerous. As I mentioned before, it's my choice to sell it... having ,or not having, a c-card is not a protected class, so I can discriminate as much as I wish... and I am choosing not to sell to anyone without one.

[Joe Blow]

I understand about Nitrox, but everything else is something I find funny. People policing what others do with an item, Who cares? Your selling it because you need cash.

Not quite. I'm selling it because I don't need the item - in the case of the tanks, I have a herd of single 130s and several sets of doubles along with deco bottles and argon bottles still in the garage. I just don't need the HP80s anymore.

I'm asking for the card because in an unregulated sport, I feel a personal sense of responsibility to ensure I'm not enabling someone to do something I consider dangerous. As I mentioned before, it's my choice to sell it... having ,or not having, a c-card is not a protected class, so I can discriminate as much as I wish... and I am choosing not to sell to anyone without one.

I wasn't pointing fingers or anything was just making a statement of how I thought about the topic.

[spatman]

i can understand Sounder's reasoning in needing a little peace of mind in who he sells his gear to. i've personally bought and sold a lot of used gear and have never been asked to show nor asked to see a c-card.

i feel that it not my responsibility as to how people use the equipment after it leaves my possession.

[Sockmonkey]

I've seen plenty of ads on scubabored and thegearstop.com that say "Disclaimer: "This is life support equipment and you need to have it properly serviced by a factory qualified technician before use." or some such words. I'd be willing to tack on "You must be certified to do stuff with things" to an ad... I'm not sure I'd ask for a C card. You can usually tell someone's level of strokery during the transaction anyways. Yet... people still keep selling me gear.

-Eric

[Dusty2]

Hmmmmm, Food for thought and consideration. If I sell a tank to someone I don't know I would simply make sure it's empty when I hand it over. Not problem there because he/she will need a C card to get it filled. Since I dive only nitrox I would not sell a full tank unless I knew the person was qualified to use it. Whether or not there is liability?? I just wouldn't feel comfortable. Regs same story. Computers?? not so much

[ljjames]

Ding Ding Ding! Thank you Dusty!

You do not need a C-card to buy a tank, a regulator or even a computer for that matter at a dive shop. How else would any of us ever get toys from our scuba santa who is a non-diver!

Handle it the same way shops handle it. 9 times outta 10 the tank is empty or mostly empty unless you show them your C-card, and voila! they are happy to fill it! This makes it all into a non-issue. No arguments on the sales floor about selling equipment, etc... Sure, they can go get their own compressor and fill it, but by that time, its WAY past anything you could have encouraged against.

The way you handle this, to keep your 'peace of mind' is to empty the tank. Then you don't have to worry about the 'trox, or the tank. Either the guy can get it filled in a shop or not.

I guess he could say "if you want to take this tank out the door full" or whatever, but hey, why not just take the tank for one last dive before you send it on its way

[CaptnJack]

While I am a hoarder and don't sell much, I have never asked to see a C-card and I don't feel guilty either.

I have also loaned my tanks full of nitrox to an air certified diver (shudder ). I was fairly confident she'd have a tough time hurting herself with it at Sunrise and Z's. Not to mention her BF buddy who's a good friend of mine was diving with her at the time.

[Sounder]

Yup, like I said - personal preference. Primarily it's for when I toss it up on Craig's List and have randoms inquiring about it. Chances are if it's sold on CL, it'll be done with the tanks empty anyway.

[kitsapdiver]

I guess this brings up another question ... How many times have you been asked for a C-card when getting an air fill. I never have been, now a number of the shops I'm in and out of know me, but I don't remember ever presenting any c-card at any dive shop ever. Now when showing up for dive charters I have for sure.

I bring these questions up a lil for conversation sake. I think that it is a safe and reasonable thing to do if you're selling your own gear, but I probably personally would never ask for a card. As it was said earlier you can usually tell if someone is really a certified diver within 5 to 10 mins of talking with em'. Also (and more practiaclly), you can buy anything online (regs, computers, tanks, anything...) so saying I'm enabling someone is hard for me grasp.

I've let guys not Nitrox certified borrow a tank full of 32 for a dive I had planned with him to 60 feet where I show up and he has an AL80 so I let him borrow my tank with the warning that if he starts digging a 50 foot hole he's going to reach his MOD.

And tanks with helium in em', well why are you selling tanks with very expensive helium in em?

[smike]

I have been asked for my C-card exactly 1 time - when I was going on a tour sponsored by a shop. Never for air. Not only are there no scuba police, but apparently no air police either.

[CaptnJack]

I have not gotten a fill at a shop in years. Well that's not entirely true, I have gotten my O2 bottles topped off a few times at NWSD. I guess Matt figures if I haven't died breathing it I must have a card somewhere. I'm not into controlling what people do with used gear although I am mostly on the buying end.

[spatman]

i was asked to produce a nitrox card when i first started going to a LDS. but i don't think i was ever asked to show any c-cards for an air fill.

[Tom Nic]

The only time I've been asked for C-Cards are:

1) First Time on a Charter

2) Diving outside my local mud hole (overseas) with a shop who has no idea who I am.

[Mattleycrue76]

The only time I ever saw my (former) LDS ask anyone for a C card was when they were renting gear.


1.) I repect any Seller's right to sell his/her wares however and to whomever they wish. If they want to see a certification it's their right to ask for it and up to the buyer to produce it if they want the item in question.

2.) I can't think of a whole lot of things that I think should be regulated and dive gear is certainly not one of them. It is not my responsibility to make someone else's decisions for them. I frankly don't care what they do with the gear once they buy it assuming I'm selling something to an adult of full mental capacity. - Sorry Joe I'm gonna need to see a permission slip for that spare air...

[Pinkpadigal]

A few months ago, I read an article in the Underseas Journal about a guy who died diving EAN. The shop never checked his C-card, and the guy had EAN tanks to be filled and they filled them; no questions asked. Apparently, they guy went too deep, got O2 poisoning and died. If I remember correctly, he was a commercial diver who wasn't nitrox certified but the staff knew him and assumed he was certified. The diver wasn't the safest guy in the water, but the store was still busted because they didn't verify or have an EAN log. I think the case was settled out of court.

As for seeing a c-card to purchase gear, I know a few on-line companies but disclaimers on their websites, but don't ask for a card to purchase on line. If someone wants gear bad enough without a c-card, they are going to get it.

You would be surprised how many people try to rent gear without being certified. We get 1-2 people a month, especially in the summer. One of my favorites was a guy who just finished DIT and wanted to show his buddies how to dive at Titlow on a high exchange day. He thought he was qualified because he had an AOW card. He then got pissed because I wouldn't rent him any gear, even to him.

[CaptnJack]

Why wasn't he qualified for Titlow with an AOW card? I agree with not renting him gear esp if you suspected he was going to "loan" it to his uncertified friends.

[Sounder]

Why wasn't he qualified for Titlow with an AOW card? I agree with not renting him gear esp if you suspected he was going to "loan" it to his uncertified friends.

I think she's referring to the currents there on a high-exchange day and he was thinking his AOW card would somehow mitigate currents (or he didn't know better... more likely).

[Mattleycrue76]

More likely she was referring to him not being qulified to teach his buddies how to dive.

[CaptnJack]

More likely she was referring to him not being qulified to teach his buddies how to dive.

That's what I assumed too, just checkin'...

[ArcticDiver]

Timely thread as I'm getting ready to sell some gear I no longer need. Some of it was purchased for specific projects I ended up not doing, or did with other gear, and is unused. From what I read it looks like I really have no liability at all for the purchasers use of the equipment. Unlike a business that might.

[Pinkpadigal]

More likely she was referring to him not being qulified to teach his buddies how to dive.

This is what happened.