fly your flag

[Jan K]

Just another day on the water.. Langley Tire Reef...

[Dusty2]

Yep, Another boater that just doesn't have a clue! Or doesn't give a sh.... Most boaters don't even know what the flags mean and no one enforces the rules anyway. If he was stupid enough to be doing that kind of maneuver that close to the marina flags don't make much difference.

My question is who took the pictures??

[Jan K]

Yep, Another boater that just doesn't have a clue! Or doesn't give a sh.... Most boaters don't even know what the flags mean and no one enforces the rules anyway. If he was stupid enough to be doing that kind of maneuver that close to the marina flags don't make much difference.
My question is who took the pictures??

I did. Could not dive, I am little sick :(
It was a Dive Langley Day sponsored by the Port of South Whidbey and local dive shops (Whidbey & Anacortes).

[airsix]

I looked up the skipper's name. If anyone want's to contact him send me a PM.

[CaptnJack]

I looked up the skipper's name. If anyone want's to contact him send me a PM.

Before anyone goes off on a venting diatribe, he's not doing anything illegal. It looks like he's rounding the buoy as a mark - was there are race going on somewhere?

[ljjames]

the corinthian yacht club used to use our dive flag at shilshole as the last last last second turn (outside the course buoy) I guess they figure if there are divers down there, must be at least 10' deep. More than once we looked up to see a sailboat keel over our heads. DUCK!!!!!

[deep diver]

as long as it legal when they run you down

[airsix]

I looked up the skipper's name. If anyone want's to contact him send me a PM.

Before anyone goes off on a venting diatribe, he's not doing anything illegal. It looks like he's rounding the buoy as a mark - was there are race going on somewhere?

My post was very poorly worded. What I meant to say is that I think an individual (not a mob - hence my withholding of further details) should contact the skipper and politely explain that his actions endangered divers in the water (and a copy of the picture would be nice). I'm personally much more alarmed at these pictures than I would be had the craft been a powerboat. I can hear a powerboat. I don't know that a 6.5m sailboat makes enough noise that I'd be able to get my head out of the way in time. As far as "illegal" goes... is that the standard to live by? As long as it's not illegal it's OK? "Vessels not engaged in diving operations should remain at least 200 feet away from a displayed flag." That's verbatim from the WA Boater Ed program, Chapter 4 "The Legal Requirements of Boating - Other Equipment and Regulations" Maybe it's not an ordinance, but there's clearly a duty and standard. By the way, the skipper of that craft has been racing it for at least 12 years which sure as {redacted} ought to be long enough to learn what a dive flag is.

-Ben

[CaptnJack]

WA state is actually not correct. As long as he doesn't hit the vessel or the actual divers he's quite legal. If he were to hit you or the aluminator, yes you'd win in court (or your heirs would) as the sailing vessel is doing something a "reasonable and purdent" skipper shouldn't be doing. Unfortunately "reasonable and prudent" is defined in court, not in yards.

Since you know the fellow's name (and I'm guessing contact info), why not discuss your concerns with him instead of offering to put some other angry person in touch with him?

While you are at it, yell at Howie too. He should have manuvered the Aluminator to the diver's advantage if he couldn't hail them on the radio to stay clear.

[airsix]

Point taken. I was hoping boater/divers would weigh-in because I'm the first to admit I don't know enough about boating law/rules/culture to be leading anything. I did expect more concern for the divers.

[Dusty2]

Great It's illegal for us to dive without a flag in many municipalities and we can be fined or worse but it's not illegal for a vessel capt. to ignore said flag and endanger divers lives with his million plus dollar toy unless he runs over a diver or his boat! Whats wrong with this picture? :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Burntchef]

While you are at it, yell at Howie too. He should have manuvered the Aluminator to the diver's advantage if he couldn't hail them on the radio to stay clear.

is that howies boat? i thought he had inboards?

[BASSMAN]

:angry:

[Jaksonbrown]

Give me his name! Id be happy to chat with this S.O.B.!

According to state law,.. a vessel must remain at least 150 yards away from a displayed dive flag.

http://www.dive-flag.com/Washington.html

Secondly, what kind of moron does this kind of maneuver this close to another anchored boat and a sea wall and marina ??

You guys are way too passive. This guy needs his head shoved up his butt. And the pictures need to be sent to the coast guard and the local officials.

But hey,... thats just my opinion.....

[spatman]

According to state law,.. a vessel must remain at least 150 yards away from a displayed dive flag.

http://www.dive-flag.com/Washington.html

according to the website you reference about state law, http://www.dive-flag.com :

"And from City of Poulsbo Marine Patrol:
Vessels must keep at least 150' from a displayed diver's flag."

and according to the link in that sentence:

"The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."

so maybe better sources and citations would help your argument. But hey,... thats just my opinion.....

[dsteding]

According to state law,..

Wrong.

[Mongodives]

So what's the reason dive flags are to be flown?
If an experienced captain doesn't know, what are the odds the kid with a waverunner does?

Would shooting at an offending boat be considered self defense?

[Geek]

[Nwbrewer]

So what's the reason dive flags are to be flown?
If an experienced captain doesn't know, what are the odds the kid with a waverunner does?

Would shooting at an offending boat be considered self defense?

It keeps you on the right side of the law so that you next of kin can collect in court. That's about it.

[Jaksonbrown]

According to state law,.. a vessel must remain at least 150 yards away from a displayed dive flag.

http://www.dive-flag.com/Washington.html

according to the website you reference about state law, http://www.dive-flag.com :

"And from City of Poulsbo Marine Patrol:
Vessels must keep at least 150' from a displayed diver's flag."

and according to the link in that sentence:

"The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."

so maybe better sources and citations would help your argument. But hey,... thats just my opinion.....

Ops... sorry spatty... I meant feet as is stated on the above link...

Here is another example I found....

Washington - Diving and Snorkeling:
Boaters should be familiar with the "divers down" flag. Displayed on a boat or on a float, this flag indicates that diving activities are taking place.

Divers should use the flag to mark diving locations and boat operators must be able to identify it. Serious injuries can result if proper caution is not observed.

If a divers downs flag is spotted while boating, be careful and do not approach out of curiosity. Maintain a distance of at least 200 feet between the flag and your vessel.

Also, keep a sharp lookout for air bubbles breaking the surface near the boat. It is possible for divers to stray accidentally from the safe area of the flag. (Reference: WAC 352-60-060(8)(e))

Another.....http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/stat ... activities which states....


Special Activities Restrictions and Considerations:

Many states regulate certain activities that take place aboard such as waterskiing and diving. For your safety, and for those who may be in the water, you should abide by these special laws.

Special Activities, Restrictions & Requirements:


When towing a person on water skis or similar device, the participant must wear a properly fitting vest-style PFD. Inflatable life jackets and ski belts are not approved
When towing a person on water skis or similar device, the observer must be at least 12 years old and able to observe the skier and relay signals to the operator
You may not water ski at night
Some waterways limit boat size, use and top speed - check local regulations before departing
Maintain a distance of 100 feet from a red and white "diver down" flag when boating on inland waters and 300 feet when boating on bays and open waters
Conventional dams and especially low head dams often present unseen dangers for boaters, especially paddlers. Operating in the vicinity of dams when such areas are known to be hazardous may be considered reckless or negligent operation in the eyes of the law.

Another....http://www.boater101.com/Course/documen ... telaws.pdf

From the state Boating and saftey regulations handbook....

SL 18. Divers-down Flag
Federal navigation rules require vessels restricted in the ability to maneuver to display
appropriate day shapes or lights. To meet this requirement, recreational vessels engaged in
diving activities may exhibit a rigid replica of the international code flag "A" or a “Divers-
Down” flag not less than one meter in height, or at night, display navigation lights 360
degrees red on top, white in middle and red on the bottom. Scuba divers, skin divers and
snorkelers must mark their diving area by means of a diver’s down flag.
A distance of at least 200 feet between the flag and a vessel must be maintained.

All clearly state that a minimum of 200 feet should be maintained by LAW>......

Is that better spatt??

[girldiver]

We have issues with boaters all the time at Les Davis. Often they use the divers bubbles as fishing spots (not sure which fish they're going after that emit bubbles??) The shore patrol/police have been called when they cruise within mere feet of dive flags....however, there's nothing illegal about boating around or even OVER a dive flag...you can run one down...as long as you don't hit a diver...no harm, no foul.

Dive flags are especially popular with jet ski's. They make sweet little markers to spin around.

Dive flags in the State of Washington, until a law in put into place, remain idiot magnets. After all, if it's going to attract a boater or jet skier to it...then we're also not dealing with a boater/jet skier who knows or CARES about the rules. And ones who, I'm sure, have little or no experience on the water in the first place...and probably couldn't slow or avoid hitting a diver, should one surface.

Gotta love it.

[Jaksonbrown]

We have issues with boaters all the time at Les Davis. Often they use the divers bubbles as fishing spots (not sure which fish they're going after that emit bubbles??) The shore patrol/police have been called when they cruise within mere feet of dive flags....however, there's nothing illegal about boating around or even OVER a dive flag...you can run one down...as long as you don't hit a diver...no harm, no foul.

Dive flags are especially popular with jet ski's. They make sweet little markers to spin around.

Dive flags in the State of Washington, until a law in put into place, remain idiot magnets. After all, if it's going to attract a boater or jet skier to it...then we're also not dealing with a boater/jet skier who knows or CARES about the rules. And ones who, I'm sure, have little or no experience on the water in the first place...and probably couldn't slow or avoid hitting a diver, should one surface.

Gotta love it.

I guess Im confused... which happens alot!.....

This is right off of the parks and recs boating regulations handbook.... which states at the beginning of the handbook...

State of Washington
State-Specific Boating Safety Requirements
SL 1. Law Enforcement Authority
State park rangers, Fish & Wildlife agents, Parks and Recreation Commission members and its
designated employees, city police officers, and deputy sheriffs are commissioned to enforce
state boating laws and regulations. In their jurisdictions, officers have the authority to enforce
laws affecting vessel operation, required equipment, rules of the road and other areas. The
U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) also has enforcement authority on all federally controlled waters.

And SL 18. states in the same handbook states the regulation to be.......


SL 18. Divers-down Flag
Federal navigation rules require vessels restricted in the ability to maneuver to display
appropriate day shapes or lights. To meet this requirement, recreational vessels engaged in
diving activities may exhibit a rigid replica of the international code flag "A" or a “Divers-
Down” flag not less than one meter in height, or at night, display navigation lights 360
degrees red on top, white in middle and red on the bottom. Scuba divers, skin divers and
snorkelers must mark their diving area by means of a diver’s down flag.
A distance of at least 200 feet between the flag and a vessel must be maintained.

I dont see any ambiguity here.....

[Mongodives]

Jacksonbrown, go ask a cop or park ranger what the rules are regarding dive flags. My money is they don't know, don't care.

[Jaksonbrown]

Jacksonbrown, go ask a cop or park ranger what the rules are regarding dive flags. My money is they don't know, don't care.

I have no doubt about that, but it seems that if you held up that photo of the idiots on the boat and then held up the regulations book in their face and demanded some action....

Or better yet... send in the photo to the local news affiliate along with the regulations book... The news loves drama and conflict... could get some good positive attention that way...

Im new here, but if what you say is true about boats running over dive flags, etc. and nothing being done, it seems to me that the club might flex its muscle in a good way to draw attention to this problem and get some media attention or something before someone gets killed.

[John Rawlings]

Be careful what you wish for.....the LAST thing I want to do is drag along a dive flag every time I want to go shore diving, and I'd really hate it if I was forced to do so.

If all manner of screaming and wailing occurs with government and in the media over boaters ignoring dive flags, then it won't be long before some irritated boater realizes that most divers don't even USE dive flags, rants and raves about it, and suddenly we will be over-regulated by every little Tom, Dick and Harry municipality that has a waterline.

Let sleeping dogs lie......

- John