Why so combative.....?

[Marc]

You don't see her in a combative thread.... That is what she has me for. Strong back, weak mind, able to lift heavy things.

[kagey747]

Of course, that's not saying we DON"T have some obnoxious people.

[Marc]

It is absolutely amazing that everytime someone mentions an obnoxious person, Defied has next post.

[LCF]

The weird thing about diving to me is the shop politics. Other activities I've been involved in have had equally passionate and sometimes even MORE unpleasant factions, but the stores involved stayed out of it. In diving, the stores seem to be integrated with the problems, and encourage the formation of cliques by punishing their customers for patronizing other stores.

I'm with Josh. The longer I do this, the less I care what you do. The only exception is that I do like to encourage new divers to get some mentoring or instruction with people who stress certain things, because I think that kind of training makes people have more fun. But if you've chosen to do things another way and you're happy with it, more power to you. There's plenty of room in the ocean for everybody who wants to go have fun there!

(I realize I'm committing the sin of staying on the original topic, and I apologize . . . )

[H20doctor]

is Bishop really here ?? :luv: ... He must have a cloak I.P. program ,, LOL

[Marc]

You only need a cloak if you are coming through a static IP or IP range and the mods wanna ban a range. DHCP/bootp takes care of a lot of that.

[Geek]

Thank you Mr Keyholder... I know my feelings would have gotten hurt eventualy..

[Marc]

Hit me up later, I can take away the pain of knowing when your feelings will be hurt by giving you a specific time.

[Raydar]

What are you strokes all blathering on about????

[Geek]

Uhhhh, Mr Keyholder? Blitz is going to hurt MY feelings now... can we please ban him too??

[NWBoiler]

The weird thing about diving to me is the shop politics. Other activities I've been involved in have had equally passionate and sometimes even MORE unpleasant factions, but the stores involved stayed out of it. In diving, the stores seem to be integrated with the problems, and encourage the formation of cliques by punishing their customers for patronizing other stores.

I'm with Josh. The longer I do this, the less I care what you do. The only exception is that I do like to encourage new divers to get some mentoring or instruction with people who stress certain things, because I think that kind of training makes people have more fun. But if you've chosen to do things another way and you're happy with it, more power to you. There's plenty of room in the ocean for everybody who wants to go have fun there!

(I realize I'm committing the sin of staying on the original topic, and I apologize . . . )

LCF... you got my point!!! I would also like to add... I completely agree with Josh and yourself 100%!!

One more thing, for those that don't know me... I am very familiar with the NW dive scene as I have been part of it for many years, though not a very vocal part of it. Also... I can be an ass too!

Vince

[CaptnJack]

What's this "affiliation" biz anyway???

I have money, sometimes I give it to shops. You don't want my green, fine, your competitor does - The End.

[scottsax]

I like to dive.

I like to dive with people that are safe divers.

That's about as far as it goes for me. If you want to relive junior high school, you're welcome to, but I, for one, am pretty glad those days are over.

I think you seriously missed my point! I don't care to go back to those days either!!!

I want this to be clear and understood. I did not start this post to create a pissing contest amongst divers. I did start this post to point out a intrinsic problem within the dive community (between groups of affiliated divers) and discuss it in a appropriate forum. I believe that is what this board is for, is it not!?!

Vince

Sorry, Vince, I didn't mean to direct my post at you. I totally got your point. I think the politics (not on this board, really, but in the community and shops in the Northwest in general) is

I'm here because I love to dive, and I like to be social when I dive. I can get along with anybody for at least one dive, and as long as you're a safe diver, or learning to be a safe diver, I'll dive with you again. (The general "you," not the specific "you.") Those "junior high school" attitudes that people encounter from shops and some dive clubs are crappy, and limit your pool of divers with whom to dive.

[airsix]

I'm very lucky I guess. I live over the hill and am pretty insulated from the politics. I've made friends with many of you and when I come over to dive it's the best social interaction I get outside of family. We laugh, we dive, we eat, we tell some stories. And then I go home. There is no downside. I get all the good stuff and miss out on the nasties. In fact when I first heard there was a dark side to the community I was shocked. Everyone treats me like a long-lost friend when I'm there. I naively thought that it was just one big happy family for a while. There was a little loss of innocence when I started to realize that some of the people I've grown fond of don't necessarily get along well with some of the others I've also grown fond of. I try not to let it bother me. I wish we could focus more on the realization that our common interests are much stronger than our differences. We love the water. We love adventure. We love seeing things only a fraction of humanity will ever see. We have an opportunity to share that excitement with each other in a way that multiplies rather than divides. I hope we can all try a little harder to leverage it.

See you in a few days.

-Ben

[Sockmonkey]

Is this what happens when the sun finally comes out over there?

-Eric

[NWBoiler]

Scottsax.... The apology should mine to make! I missed your point. I completely agree!

[kat]

the sun went away...

[vlad]

I would like to object Mr Keyholder.... Defied is an ASS and breaks rules # 1-2249759847594k ALL the time.. ban him now... please..

Hey, there is some collateral damage. Now I cannot feed my addiction from work. Reading the forum on iPhone really sucks, replying sucks even more. This is descrimination based on IP address, it's not fair! Can I call some one an ass?

[girldiver]

Why so combative? So that YOU'RE customers only buy from YOU. Right? And so YOU can be with the Biggest, Baddest Shop on the block.

Before I did diving, I did quilting. (yes...I USED to have a domestic side...). We had a "Quilt Stop and Shop" event every year in which quilters got a "passport" which they would get stamped at each quilt shop they went into from Bellingham to Vancouver in a two week period. If you got 10 stamps, you were entered to win prizes.

Funny thing...women would spend approx. $1000 each (expensive hobby...) that week in various quilting shops. While you had your "LQS" (like our LDS)...no one was threatened by you purchasing $200 worth of fabric from a competitive shop...as everyone had visiting customers spending money in their shops as well. Everyone played and thousands upon thousands of dollars were brought into the stores. There weren't "Annual Sales" that competed with each other trying to lower prices and take out the competition.

If we all played in scuba cooperatively...we'd have more divers, spending more money and diving more frequently. But in our industry, it's been built on competition. PADI vs. NAUI vs. SSI. Long hose vs. recreational. Back Plate vs. BCD. Rec vs. Tech. Air vs. Nitrox.

You're absolutely right Vince...too much competitiveness...and it makes the sport suck.

[Grateful Diver]

The thing that most LDS owners and employees don't seem to realize is that they're not competing against the other dive shops ... they're competing against all the other activities that people can spend their discretionary dollars doing.

I recently had lunch with a friend who is getting away from diving. He mentioned that one of the reasons he's finding other things to do is because he got tired of all the politics. Who loses? Every time someone walks away from the activity, every dive shop in the area loses the opportunity to make another sale.

Shop politics is really short-sighted, because it turns people off. Even those who end up getting caught up in it for a time will eventually either realize what they got sucked into, or will get tired of it and find something else to do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[NWBoiler]

Cindy & Bob,

You hit it on the head! They attitudes in the Northwest amongst dive operators (or whatever we choose to call them, shops centers.. whatever) seems counter productive. I dive the upper Florida keys from time to time (not enough!) and all the dive shops work as cooperative even though they are completely independent. If you go to shop A and are looking for a specific piece of gear and they don't have it, they call shop B, C or D and check for you. If you want to dive the grove and their boat is full they offer up options.... it works! Everyone prospers and all the divers are taken care of. Seems that could work in the NW also if it were just given a try....

Now, with all that said, I don't profess to know the ins and outs of operating a dive shop in this environment nor do I care to. I am however, on staff at a LDS and I do see the political happenings and I choose not to participate. What I post here are my very own thoughts and opinions and have no agenda other than constructive discussion.

Thank you all for your comments, those that are serious and those that are in jest. I personally enjoy reading them all.

Vince


PS, CaptnJack.. this "afilliation biz" as you put it.... means to be on staff (for lack of a better description) at a LDS....

[LCF]

Cindy, that's so true! Tack shops are like that. Go in looking for something they don't have, and they'll call the other shops. If you get what you wanted, what will you remember? That the first shop you went into went the extra mile to find that item for you. Because it was the first shop you went into, it's probably the most convenient for you, too . . . Dive shops don't seem to get that.

Ben, the reason you never see the dark underbelly of dive politics is that you are such a very special person that all of us are just thrilled when you come over here, and we get to spend time with you. I don't think there is a single time I've been privileged to be around you that I haven't learned something wise and wonderful . . . as I do from your posts as well. Some people transcend all boundaries!

But I had a wonderful lesson about dive politics last late fall. Josh and I have, if you've been around here a while, butted serious heads on occasion, and I think have gotten thoroughly ticked off at one another. But the more I read of his posts, the more I liked him, so I wrote to him and suggested we go diving together. Now, it was a strange dive, because I'm not only OC but DIR, and he's CCR, and I've been reluctant to dive with CCR people because I don't understand their equipment and I'm afraid I can't help them. But I had had a little exposure to CCRs in the Red Sea, and felt comfortable enough for a simple ramble around Cove 2. We met on a rainy night and did an uneventful dive together. I found him a very comfortable and relaxing buddy, and then we went for beers and had a very pleasant evening's chat. We bridged what had seemed a very large divide, and it took only a couple of hours.

If we all kept our eyes on the fact that we all dive because we love diving, there'd be a lot less politics.

[Joshua Smith]

Too true, Lynne! Hell, if you and I can go for a dive and have fun together, anything's possible! I'm awfully tired of the mudslinging and backstabbing that seems to be so enmeshed in the dive scene. I try hard not to be part of the game any more. I like diving. I'm in love with the underwater world. Politics don't matter at 250'.(Or 10 feet, for that matter!) The ocean doesn't give a damn whose name is on my c-card. The only thing that matters is that me and whoever I'm with make it back to zero feet without getting hurt.

[Geek]

I would like to object Mr Keyholder.... Defied is an ASS and breaks rules # 1-2249759847594k ALL the time.. ban him now... please..

Hey, there is some collateral damage. Now I cannot feed my addiction from work. Reading the forum on iPhone really sucks, replying sucks even more. This is descrimination based on IP address, it's not fair! Can I call some one an ass?

They blocked **??


Something comes to mind about overkill....

[Sounder]

See you in a few days.

-Ben

The extra bedroom is waiting for you and the tanks are full... and we might even make tacos one night.