UTD Essentials
Re: UTD Essentials
Lavachickie, you are absolutely right that there is no hidden scheme to assimilate divers. Its more about what skills do you want to have as a diver. Wanting to be able to maintain my position in the water without a struggle, move back, forward, up, down, in a relaxed way. I'm not perfect at it, but I have been started down the path. Brian and Jeanna helped us get our gear set up right so we are not fighting that, and how to recognize when that same gear was making us wonky. Have you ever felt stress or caused someone stress because they could not see you or you could not see them, that's a part of the training. It's not like you have to fly in formation either, just a few little things to think about so you put your buddy at ease. At the end we shot a bag and made an ascent while winding the string up, in control. No way I could have done that before, I was shocked. Then there are all the skills you did in open water. Try doing that without losing control of your bouyancy. They will show you how, it's not easy, but you can do it, and it makes a lot of sense to learn how before the s*** hits the proverbial fan.
The gear requirements are few, long hose, necklaced backup, blade fins. Thats what I have, thats what I wanted to learn to use. I got more than I paid for.
I think every sport has folks that for whatever reason, need to think of their way of doing things to be in some way superior, I also like to fish. I learned to fish with a fly rod, and found many flyfishers to have this attitude. I don't know, maybe it comes with you will probably NOT learn to do this well unless you PUT THAT SPINNING ROD IN THE CLOSET! Then the inner voices start talking to others through you. I'm pretty sure I will NOT get the hang of boltsnaps unless I STOP USING BOTH HANDS! Go ahead and dopeslap me if I ever say something condescending about your, well, anything.
The gear requirements are few, long hose, necklaced backup, blade fins. Thats what I have, thats what I wanted to learn to use. I got more than I paid for.
I think every sport has folks that for whatever reason, need to think of their way of doing things to be in some way superior, I also like to fish. I learned to fish with a fly rod, and found many flyfishers to have this attitude. I don't know, maybe it comes with you will probably NOT learn to do this well unless you PUT THAT SPINNING ROD IN THE CLOSET! Then the inner voices start talking to others through you. I'm pretty sure I will NOT get the hang of boltsnaps unless I STOP USING BOTH HANDS! Go ahead and dopeslap me if I ever say something condescending about your, well, anything.
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
Re: UTD Essentials
No it means you are drifting towards a streamline Hogarthian (spell check) harness. people just don't get it. UTD is not DIR Get that out of your heads people. they are not the same, they both just use HOG style harnesses. If people don't get that concept I give up.BASSMAN wrote:
So it seems that I'm slowly drifting towards UTD or tecreational diver.
Even I get it.
Maverick
Diving. . . is an active physical form of meditation. It is so silent- You're like a thought.
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR
ANYTHING, BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE
STAIRS.
Diving. . . is an active physical form of meditation. It is so silent- You're like a thought.
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR
ANYTHING, BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE
STAIRS.
Re: UTD Essentials
Jeez, you leave for a couple of days to teach an Intro to Tech class in British Columbia and look what happens!
Yes, UTD has it's roots in DIR (whatever that means anymore ) , but this class is called "Essentials of Recreational Diving".
It's simply a class that teaches the foundational skills that are applicable to any kind of diving. Of course since it is a UTD class there is a team diving element to it, but really the class is about helping the diver achieve a new level in their own diving skills and knowledge, regardless of whether they're interested in team diving or not.
Don't forget that we all share a common reason for diving....fun. If you're more comfortable and confident in your own skills and abilities, you'll enjoy your dives more. Essentials is one of several options a diver has to help them become a better diver.
If it were a fully DIR class, we would've named it "Essentials of DIR"
Yes, UTD has it's roots in DIR (whatever that means anymore ) , but this class is called "Essentials of Recreational Diving".
It's simply a class that teaches the foundational skills that are applicable to any kind of diving. Of course since it is a UTD class there is a team diving element to it, but really the class is about helping the diver achieve a new level in their own diving skills and knowledge, regardless of whether they're interested in team diving or not.
Don't forget that we all share a common reason for diving....fun. If you're more comfortable and confident in your own skills and abilities, you'll enjoy your dives more. Essentials is one of several options a diver has to help them become a better diver.
If it were a fully DIR class, we would've named it "Essentials of DIR"
Last edited by BDub on Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UTD Essentials
Have I mentioned I HATE koolaid?!?BDub wrote:If it were a fully DIR class, we would've named it "Essentials of DIR"
Kelly
Re: UTD Essentials
Well then it should be called ERD training.BDub wrote: this class is called "Essentials of Recreational Diving".
It's simply a class that teaches the foundational skills that are applicable to any kind of diving.
What is GUE an acronym for?
Hi, my name is Keith, and I'm a Dive Addict!
Re: UTD Essentials
BASSMAN wrote:Well then it should be called ERD training.
But then what happens if someone takes Tech 1, or Rec 2, or Overhead Protocols? Create an agency name for each course?
GUE is Global Underwater Explorers, a DIR training agencyBASSMAN wrote:What is GUE an acronym for?
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"It's a lot easier when you're not doing it" - CaseyB449
"There needs to be more strawberry condoms. Just not on my regulator" - DSteding
"It's a lot easier when you're not doing it" - CaseyB449
"There needs to be more strawberry condoms. Just not on my regulator" - DSteding
Re: UTD Essentials
I think you did, as you were getting your initiation tattooktb wrote:Have I mentioned I HATE koolaid?!?BDub wrote:If it were a fully DIR class, we would've named it "Essentials of DIR"
http://www.frogkickdiving.com/
"It's a lot easier when you're not doing it" - CaseyB449
"There needs to be more strawberry condoms. Just not on my regulator" - DSteding
"It's a lot easier when you're not doing it" - CaseyB449
"There needs to be more strawberry condoms. Just not on my regulator" - DSteding
Re: UTD Essentials
No, I don't think I complained until you made me get that second, back-up tattoo. Sometimes redundancy is a bitch.BDub wrote:I think you did, as you were getting your initiation tattooktb wrote:Have I mentioned I HATE koolaid?!?BDub wrote:If it were a fully DIR class, we would've named it "Essentials of DIR"
Kelly
Re: UTD Essentials
Would that be a, on your lower-back" tattoo?
Hi, my name is Keith, and I'm a Dive Addict!
Re: UTD Essentials
this Essentials class is just one class in a larger curriculum. you can call the class ERD, but it wouldn't apply to the whole training progression. it would be akin to called NAUI's or PADI's entire training "AOW".BASSMAN wrote:Well then it should be called ERD training.BDub wrote: this class is called "Essentials of Recreational Diving".
It's simply a class that teaches the foundational skills that are applicable to any kind of diving.
What is GUE an acronym for?
Re: UTD Essentials
Okay so is GUE and UTD related to each other?
GUE Fundamentals vs. UTD Essentials or UTD Fundamentals
GUE Fundamentals vs. UTD Essentials or UTD Fundamentals
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Re: UTD Essentials
Global Underwater Explorers
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Re: UTD Essentials
BASSMAN wrote:Okay so is GUE and UTD related to each other?
GUE Fundamentals vs. UTD Essentials or UTD Fundamentals
No. But Yes.
I'm standing on the sidelines with my face in my hands. I'm kind of amazed that we're having this conversation.
DIR is a diving philosophy, or school of thought.
GUE and UTD are training agencies that teach Team diving.
The main difference between them is that Brian and Jeanna teach for UTD. And aside from being awesome people, and friends of mine- not once, ever, anywhere, have I ever seen or heard any of their students offering unsolicited advice by telling someone else how to dive, or that they're "Doing It Wrong" or preaching on a street corner passing out pamphlets.
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Re: UTD Essentials
GUE was the first agency teaching "DIR" diving, which is a multifaceted approach involving standardized equipment, standard gases, standardized protocols, heavy emphasis on strong personal skills, and diving as a team. Andrew Georgitsis was training director for GUE for a number of years. He had some differences of vision with the GUE council as to how the training ought to evolve. AG and GUE parted ways, and AG eventually started his own agency, promoting the teaching of what is still a very DIR type of diving. There ARE small differences between the agencies in how gear is configured, on the choice of standard gases, and on how deco is calculated. But the bottom line is that GUE and UTD trained divers can easily operate together after a brief conversation to reconcile those differences. They are far more alike than either is like the mainstream training agencies.
GUE Fundamentals is a four (or more) day class that focuses on personal skills (buoyancy, trim, position, emergency procedures and bag shooting). It also includes a Nitrox course and some Rescue skills. There are fairly strict equipment requirements -- one must be in a full Hog rig. UTD Essentials is more similar to the GUE Primer. It's a class to introduce skills. The equipment requirements are not as extensive. Most importantly, Essentials is not a pass/fail course -- it is a workshop to show you some skills and how they can make your diving more relaxed, more fun, and probably safer.
One of the biggest differences for us in the PNW is that we have two active and very well-liked UTD instructors here. To take a GUE class, one must either travel or bring in an instructor. Although Guy Shockey, up in BC (who is a heck of a nice guy) has said he'd be more than willing to come down and teach GUE classes here for anyone who wants them, it's still easier to book a class with Brian and Jeanna.
Where the two agencies get much more unlike is in their more advanced (technical and cave) curricula. But by the time you get that far, you probably know enough about each to make your own decisions.
GUE Fundamentals is a four (or more) day class that focuses on personal skills (buoyancy, trim, position, emergency procedures and bag shooting). It also includes a Nitrox course and some Rescue skills. There are fairly strict equipment requirements -- one must be in a full Hog rig. UTD Essentials is more similar to the GUE Primer. It's a class to introduce skills. The equipment requirements are not as extensive. Most importantly, Essentials is not a pass/fail course -- it is a workshop to show you some skills and how they can make your diving more relaxed, more fun, and probably safer.
One of the biggest differences for us in the PNW is that we have two active and very well-liked UTD instructors here. To take a GUE class, one must either travel or bring in an instructor. Although Guy Shockey, up in BC (who is a heck of a nice guy) has said he'd be more than willing to come down and teach GUE classes here for anyone who wants them, it's still easier to book a class with Brian and Jeanna.
Where the two agencies get much more unlike is in their more advanced (technical and cave) curricula. But by the time you get that far, you probably know enough about each to make your own decisions.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
Re: UTD Essentials
+1Joshua Smith wrote:I'm standing on the sidelines with my face in my hands. I'm kind of amazed that we're having this conversation.
Re: UTD Essentials
+1 as well. I'm somewhat amazed, although less so because this is NWDC, after all, that it's a civil conversation. Y'all are the best!spatman wrote:+1Joshua Smith wrote:I'm standing on the sidelines with my face in my hands. I'm kind of amazed that we're having this conversation.
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Re: UTD Essentials
BASSMAN wrote:Okay so is GUE and UTD related to each other?
GUE Fundamentals vs. UTD Essentials or UTD Fundamentals
I'm having a hard time believing that these questions are sincere attempts to gather knowlege, to be honest.
Keith, you actually joined this site a few months before I did- heck, I bet you've been diving longer than I have. In all this time, are you seriously telling us that you have NO IDEA what this is all about?
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Re: UTD Essentials
Just for the sake of bandwagon hopping...
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Re: UTD Essentials
Um... believe it. Or at least some of it. I can tell you that as a new diver who has been asking for input/reactions about UTD from those around me, that there ARE people who are professionals and have been diving about as long as I've been alive who are... I don't know the word I'm looking for. Unclear? Uninformed? Unaware? Confused? Disinterested thus causing one of the former? I was told UTD Essentials wasn't a good idea, and further wasn't even appropriate for a rec diver. This was likely just lack of information, nothing more nefarious.Joshua Smith wrote:BASSMAN wrote:Okay so is GUE and UTD related to each other?
GUE Fundamentals vs. UTD Essentials or UTD Fundamentals
I'm having a hard time believing that these questions are sincere attempts to gather knowlege, to be honest.
Keith, you actually joined this site a few months before I did- heck, I bet you've been diving longer than I have. In all this time, are you seriously telling us that you have NO IDEA what this is all about?
I don't know Keith so perhaps his question was just a well placed prompt, but I can tell you the resulting explanation is helpful information for some, regardless.
Last edited by lavachickie on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UTD Essentials
Now THAT is something I can use. Right-click-save-attach to meeting minutes.Sockmonkey wrote:Just for the sake of bandwagon hopping...
Hey Oregon Divers: check out Oregon Scuba Club! http://oregonscuba.com
Looking forward to Roatan June 2016.
Looking forward to Roatan June 2016.
Re: UTD Essentials
This thread is yet another victim of shoot-first-ask-questions-later baloney-fire.
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Re: UTD Essentials
WARNING: Over two paragraphslavachickie wrote:Um... believe it. Or at least some of it. I can tell you that as a new diver who has been asking for input/reactions about UTD from those around me, that there ARE people who are professionals and have been diving about as long as I've been alive who are... I don't know the word I'm looking for. Unclear? Uninformed? Unaware? Confused? Disinterested thus causing one of the former? All I can say is a pro I spoke with felt UTD Essentials wasn't a good idea, and further wasn't even appropriate for a rec diver. I have no idea if that was motivated by a desire to protect turf, or misinformation, or...?Joshua Smith wrote:BASSMAN wrote:Okay so is GUE and UTD related to each other?
GUE Fundamentals vs. UTD Essentials or UTD Fundamentals
I'm having a hard time believing that these questions are sincere attempts to gather knowlege, to be honest.
Keith, you actually joined this site a few months before I did- heck, I bet you've been diving longer than I have. In all this time, are you seriously telling us that you have NO IDEA what this is all about?
I don't know Keith so perhaps his question was just a well placed prompt, but I can tell you the resulting explanation is helpful information for some, regardless.
As far as I am concerned all the training in this thread is sound and follows great philosophy. I rock a long hose, frog kick, and even back up. I researched much of the philosophy of DIR and agree with much of it. I did not take the UTD training but can see the benefit of it to the newer diver that is interested in team diving. As for ERD (essentials for recreational diving) I assume that this is very beneficial to the person trying to learn to be a better diver. I mean there are really only two ways...
DIVE DIVE DIVE, Absorb info Absorb info Absorb info
Take Additional training
EITHER WAY IS FINE!
I just dove with people and everyone I dive with I try and take something from that experience. Some divers I take some Dos and some divers I take some donts. I dove over 100 times my first year and treated every dive as one in which I can polish my skills as a diver. My thoughts were "I dont want people that I dive with to think of me as a liability, or someone they feel as though they need to babysit. Rather I want to be on my game and feel confident that not only will I not be a burden but someone with a calm demeaner where should something go wrong I would not succumb to panic.
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We have all met people that try and push their way of doing things as the "only" way, SCUBA or other activities. These people do more damage than good, and should just allow people to ask, pursue, or desire the information before assuming that they can dictate someone's direction by pushing it on them.
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Re: UTD Essentials
MY WAY IS THE BESTEST WAY TO DIVE!!!
I was actually suprised when I followed the GUE link posted, lots of info I didn't know about there training and equipment config's...
I was actually suprised when I followed the GUE link posted, lots of info I didn't know about there training and equipment config's...
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Re: UTD Essentials
josh isn't asking a general question, he's asking keith specifically.lavachickie wrote:Um... believe it. Or at least some of it.Joshua Smith wrote:I'm having a hard time believing that these questions are sincere attempts to gather knowlege, to be honest.
Keith, you actually joined this site a few months before I did- heck, I bet you've been diving longer than I have. In all this time, are you seriously telling us that you have NO IDEA what this is all about?
you're missing a lot of context, lavachickie. keith and josh have both been members of nwdc since 2006, during which time there have been countless threads about DIR training. some of these these were, shall we say, "heated".
you are always welcome to post questions here, and PM specific users to help you gain the information you seek.lavachickie wrote:I was told UTD Essentials wasn't a good idea, and further wasn't even appropriate for a rec diver. This was likely just lack of information, nothing more nefarious.
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Re: UTD Essentials
Civility Scott? What part of shut up did you not understand?scottsax wrote:+1 as well. I'm somewhat amazed, although less so because this is NWDC, after all, that it's a civil conversation. Y'all are the best!spatman wrote:+1Joshua Smith wrote:I'm standing on the sidelines with my face in my hands. I'm kind of amazed that we're having this conversation.
Oh and your diving... you're doing it all wrong. Here have a pamphlet that explains how sucktastic your diving is. Now move along because you're crowding my street corner.
-Eric