on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality ...
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
I found an interesting CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) report comparing ATV riding, SCUBA diving, rock climbing, and skiing and comparing the risk of injury.
Abstract: The goal of this project was to compare possible risk factors associated with selected High Adventure Recreational Activities and create possible risk mitigation strategies from these comparisons. Our research involved gathering information on risk management, injury statistics, and participant behavior trends. The final result was recommendations to CPSC about potential risk mitigation strategies and possible improvements to their methods of collecting and analyzing nationwide injury data.
For those who want to wade thru it
http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Avail ... T_CPSC.pdf
Scuba was the safest of the four and the report contributed it to the training we all receive. Here are their estimates from 2003. <Disclaimer> I am not saying that all training is great. Just relaying what is in the report<Disclaimer>
Percent Injured*
ATV 1.77%-2.58%
Skiing 0.18%-1.32%
SCUBA 0.03%-0.12%
Rock Climbing 0.09%-0.22%
Abstract: The goal of this project was to compare possible risk factors associated with selected High Adventure Recreational Activities and create possible risk mitigation strategies from these comparisons. Our research involved gathering information on risk management, injury statistics, and participant behavior trends. The final result was recommendations to CPSC about potential risk mitigation strategies and possible improvements to their methods of collecting and analyzing nationwide injury data.
For those who want to wade thru it
http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Avail ... T_CPSC.pdf
Scuba was the safest of the four and the report contributed it to the training we all receive. Here are their estimates from 2003. <Disclaimer> I am not saying that all training is great. Just relaying what is in the report<Disclaimer>
Percent Injured*
ATV 1.77%-2.58%
Skiing 0.18%-1.32%
SCUBA 0.03%-0.12%
Rock Climbing 0.09%-0.22%
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
file not found :(
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
LINKseaphilia wrote:For those who want to wade thru it
- Penopolypants
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Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
I can't speak for rock climbing, but at least two of these are not like the other in a critical way. Only once have I seen a person have a beer and go diving, but lots of people drink and go skiing, or ride an ATV.seaphilia wrote: Percent Injured*
ATV 1.77%-2.58%
Skiing 0.18%-1.32%
SCUBA 0.03%-0.12%
Rock Climbing 0.09%-0.22%
Come to the nerd side, we have pi!
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Not having so much history around here but having dove with you, I was actually surprised to read this. Yes you are shall I say "entertaining" to dive with. I also think you are a safe and contentious diver. The most important aspect of this is that you are very clear up front about your plan for the dive, etc. I'll dive with you any time Doc.H20doctor wrote:I say people have Not dove with me because of Hearing about Me from 2nd hand divers..Yes I am a screw Ball, and i have a sense of Humour most people dnt Get, and Ive heard comments about me and my diving which is un true.. ( I think it pretty funny , and Just Laugh it off )
I feel if I do get more trained and get more certs , to do deep dives, Tec dives, etc.. etc.. I would still be Me.. I do take risks , but would never do them with a diver I dont know and dont feel comfortable with ...
I would never screw off underwater on a deep dive or a tech dive, its too risky, and not safe.. Im just not a fit for some divers and thats ok with me..
so i say learn , dive, enjoy
My 2 psi
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Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Nah ... Doc's only contentious on the internet ... and even then I don't think he's doing it on purpose ...gutholmj wrote: Not having so much history around here but having dove with you, I was actually surprised to read this. Yes you are shall I say "entertaining" to dive with. I also think you are a safe and contentious diver. The most important aspect of this is that you are very clear up front about your plan for the dive, etc. I'll dive with you any time Doc.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix
Come visit me at http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/
Come visit me at http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
The commonality is that all are activities that people continue to do in an unsafe manner when there is a known risk of being seriously injured or killed.I can't speak for rock climbing, but at least two of these are not like the other in a critical way. Only once have I seen a person have a beer and go diving, but lots of people drink and go skiing, or ride an ATV.
My sister lets her kids ride around all day, helmetless on an ATV, but she shudders when they want to learn scuba diving.
I ain't naming no names, but he ain't the only one :-)Nah ... Doc's only contentious on the internet ... and even then I don't think he's doing it on purpose ...
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
One of the big differences between scuba and rock climbing or ATV riding is the spectrum of injuries. It is quite possible to get injured slightly in all three, but serious injuries in scuba are likely to be fatalities, whereas broken bones and concussions are much more common in the others. (Although I've managed, in the course of diving, to break a bone, and so has Mattley -- but not underwater!)
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Agreed.
The report included barotrauma injuries, otherwise the injury rate would be much lower.
The report included barotrauma injuries, otherwise the injury rate would be much lower.
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
I thought divers were supposed to drink before diving
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
One Martini for every 33 feet deep we dive, right ?Mongo wrote:I thought divers were supposed to drink before diving
I think there was something about that in my Open Water class.
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Stolen from another thread....
A shot of Whiskey and a cool refreshing smoke....
A shot of Whiskey and a cool refreshing smoke....
**Pinch it, don't stick your finger through. You're just pinching a bigger hole.
CAPTNJACK - 2012**
CAPTNJACK - 2012**
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
With doc its all subconsciously done, no thinking necessary. When I first met him though he had a pair of fake teeth that look strangle familiar to sounder, so I though to myself"Omg what have I gotten myself into,this should be interesting" but turns out he's more cautious than even I.Grateful Diver wrote:Nah ... Doc's only contentious on the internet ... and even then I don't think he's doing it on purpose ...gutholmj wrote: Not having so much history around here but having dove with you, I was actually surprised to read this. Yes you are shall I say "entertaining" to dive with. I also think you are a safe and contentious diver. The most important aspect of this is that you are very clear up front about your plan for the dive, etc. I'll dive with you any time Doc.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Last dive we did he checked my air gauges halfway through the dive, I was like Erg doc I thought we were past this point, so in turn I checked his just to be a smart Ass lol.
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Translation: if you can drink 6 Martini's and drive home safely, its ok to dive to 198 ft on air? 7 = 231 and etc?
I like where this is going.
Kirby
I like where this is going.
Kirby
Hi, My name is Kirby, and I am addicted to Nitrogen Narcosis.
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Dashrynn wrote: With doc its all subconsciously done, no thinking necessary. .
speaking of sig lines....
The student was ready.
it's nice to have low expectations, sometimes - lcf
I said keep going, not start whining -airsix
it's nice to have low expectations, sometimes - lcf
I said keep going, not start whining -airsix
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
What I want to know then is can I drink 3 'tinis and still dive to 99 feet ?Kirby wrote:Translation: if you can drink 6 Martini's and drive home safely, its ok to dive to 198 ft on air? 7 = 231 and etc?
I like where this is going.
Kirby
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Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
yes you can, just remember to always puke hiccup and sneeze with the regulator in your mouth. Should you feel that your going to loose your regulator during a puke or hiccup bite down on the included mouth adapter. just remember if you get narke'd while drunk there is a likely chance that the leprechauns will find you where you dont want to be.
Kelly(boy)
_____
Per TOS: I explicitly ask you to feel free to criticize me constructively or just because you want to pick on me.
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Per TOS: I explicitly ask you to feel free to criticize me constructively or just because you want to pick on me.
Re: on freedom of choice & the "you're gonna die" mentality
Thanks for the pointers - got 'em on my wish list at Amazon. I've got a book that's nearing the top of my "to read" stack - "Surviving the Extremes" by Kenneth Kamler MD - might be very similar to the two you mentioned. Might want to check it out if you haven't already.seainggreen wrote: There are two very good books that might give some interesting insights on "why" we do what we do, and might shed insight for some folks about why so many different people approach diving (and everything else) from such different perspectives:
Brain Rules, J. Medina
Deep Survival, J. Gonzales *this one especially is interesting for us semi-adrenaline-junky types
“When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world.” -- John Muir