Seriously Annoyed....

[airsix]

Between the ages of 7 and 10 I completely wore out a lever-action Daisy. With proper fatherly oversight it was a catalyst for adventure and unbeknownst to me at the time a teaching aid for personal responsibility. I will join you in open support of Red Ryder! (Check and make sure Scott has his safety glasses on though.)

[nwbobber]

Back to the original topic, maybe some of you who are more familiar with liability issues can chime in here. It seems to me that if I bring in a cylinder for a fill, and it is rated for 3442 psi there would be no issue for a shop putting that pressure in it regardless of whether the insert for a yoke reg is in the valve or not. I sometimes keep the "donut" in my valve to protect the valve from a "hit" which could make the din thread out of round. I have the regs that are rated 300 bar (and can be set up yoke or din), even if I use a yoke reg, I'm certainly willing to risk a blown oring to get a good fill, and most regs made today are capable of 300 bar pressures anyway.

If I can find a reg that isn't up to it, and I put it on my tank, it seems like that is definitely an action that I am responsible for, not the guy who filled the tank to its rated pressure. The bigger liability, to a shop, is that if you get a reputation for giving light fills, it is definitely going to hurt your business.

[Waynne Fowler]

Just a lil' note here: I don't own the store here. I concern myself with it the same as if I did and if it ever comes up for sale... its mine!
naw I'm not embarrassed nor skurred to post the store name. Scuba diving is all about accountability and personal responsibility. Those are the two reasons I choose to go by my real name on the web. It keeps me accountable and responsible for my words.

This is about an airfill, if we can't take the heat of making a mistake on an airfill and at least attempt to make it right.... well.... then... we suck n I don't wanna work here nomo. This is a pretty petty problem on the grand scheme of things even though it can be upsetting to those on the receiving end.
We are Capital Divers in Olympia Wa.

now on to the matter at hand:
and in that regard I'm Seriously Confused…

As it turns out. The offending party was not the newb. (oh how I wish it were!!!)
It didn't happen on Saturday. (shucks)
The tanks were dropped of Thursday, I filled them and they were picked up Friday.

Yeah…. It was me :(
While I 'thought' I'd filled the tanks properly….. I was VARY apparently mistaken. I hate, hate, HATE it when that happens! Damn it!!!!!

However the part that's confusing is that we never discussed whether his tanks were 200 or 300 bar, nor was there any indication that I'd made a mistake on the working pressure of the tank though I put a gauge on them with him present and told him what that pressure was. Thus my confusion.

The only conversation we had in regard to his tanks was about how they were assembled. I showed him that his manifold and bands were horribly misassembled, being fully 1/2" wider at the top than the bottom was. I did tell him they posed a significant risk of not just destroying the manifold and bands he'd spent his hard earned dollars on, but that there was a serious risk of failure while underwater. I did tell him the tanks were unsafe (at the very best) to dive while in that condition and if he chose to do so he should avoid any decompression commitments cuz he may need to bug out in a hurry.

I unfortunately seem to have left this gentleman confused. While I certainly did express a great deal of concern about how poorly his manifold was set up and the problems it would almost certainly cause if left untended. I did not refuse to fill his tanks to working pressure for any reason whatsoever. In fact, much to my dismay now, I thought they were to working pressure and at no time did he even suggest they were not. Quite simply put.... I screwed the pouch on the fill.

Ultimately though, any confusion about the matter falls squarely on my shoulders as it is my job to ensure things are properly communicated and understood. I apparently failed in both of those areas in this instance and for that I am very sorry.

On another note Geek:
I hope you know or can find out who the was that rebuilt and installed this guys manifold and band system so that you can at least suggest they stop or get some training on how to do this properly.

Again my apologies to the customer and the rest of his team mates. I hope that my mistake did not seriously compromise the planned dive. I really had no idea he'd left with a partial fill.

Our offer still stands and I have the aircard in the box with his name on it.

[Geek]

I talked with him yesterday, he said it was the "other" guy that was talking to him about the 200bar thing... as for the manifold, it wasn't rebuilt by the same person who assembled it, I can garentee the manifold was rebuilt correctly, assembly obviously wasn't what it should have been, he drained them down and tightened the manifold, lowered the bands a little and says it's MUCH better, I haven't seen it yet though..

and as always, it's nice to see Waynne stick his neck out, you da man

[nwbobber]

Mistakes happen. I know Waynne is a good man, and so is Craig. Its tough to own up when you make a mistake, and take a tough guy to do it. I know I have had a discussion with Waynne about my donuts being in the valves, and took em out and filled em up right, which is perfect. Still I wonder, if there would be any liability issue if the customer who uses a yoke valve, wanted to take em out and fill em up anyway, the decision to use it that way is being made outside the store.

[BASSMAN]

The bigger liability, to a shop, is that if you get a reputation for giving light fills, it is definitely going to hurt your business.

I think Waynne handled this in the best way he could.

Good job Wayyne

[nwbobber]

I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone. I agree that this was handled well. Perhaps I should have started another thread, I'm curious about the perception of a liability issue.

[Waynne Fowler]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer

but IMO Bob

I can't imagine a shop could be liable for anything when after filling a tank to working pressure and returning it to it's owner. That owner modifies (installs the donut) and then use's it.
I don't imagine it would stop some people from trying to sue though, if someone got hurt. I've heard of a shop being sued for a rental tank being out of VIZ when someone ran out of air using it.