Pony bottle help

[Nwbrewer]

And if you want to really get tweaky on gas planning, attend one of the many free gas management seminars that get advertised here.

Looks like Jake is offering the next one! Nice post, Jake.

Wow, I got Jeanna to come out of lurker mode!

[spatman]

And if you want to really get tweaky on gas planning, attend one of the many free gas management seminars that get advertised here.

Looks like Jake is offering the next one! Nice post, Jake.

Wow, I got Jeanna to come out of lurker mode!

nice job, jake!

hi, jeanna!

[Edge]

Nothing like a gas planning discussion to engage a girl in a conversation!

[airsix]

Great post Jake, and great to see Jeanna here too!

[Sounder]

Nothing like a gas planning discussion to engage a girl in a conversation!

"So, do you come here often? What's your sign? I bet with your SAC, my tank is big enough to hold rock bottom for us both. Want to see my scooter?"

"Gas Management... CHICKS DIG IT!!" :luv:

[Jabberjaw]

Down Boy! You're married and so is she

[coulterboy]

Jay,

Did you ever find out what caused the free flow of your regulator? Have you had it checked out yet? I'm interested on what really went wrong with your gear.

On the other hand, I second the motion on what Jake (Nwbrewer) posted. He's right on the money. As for me, right now, I dive with only a HP100 (if you remember, we dove at Redondo 3 weeks ago). But if I was going to entertain packing more air/gas, personally, I would go with the double HP80's.

By the way, viz has been somewhat great lately. If you want to get more dives at around 100 - 130 fsw (depending on the tide), now is the time to do the Muk and pay mama octo a visit. I was there on Monday, viz was great.

[jaytrigg27]

I got it getting serviced now but I wasn't the only guy to have a freeflow, mine was under the surface, his was walking in the water, and as it was moving in the water the purge button was pushed when it moved in the water, then it free flowed until his buddy turned his tank off. One of the guys thinks they both froze open in the fresh water, we shall see...I am looking forward to getting it back to dive again next weekend. Hopefully the viz holds til then...

[CaptnJack]

Highly recommend you avoid double HP80s. Trim on those for 99.9% of divers sucks, they are short, squatty and top heavy. LP85s or hp100s are a vastly better choice even if they might seem like overkill (and they are for many divers).

I dive a single hp100 for 0-100ft dives and its fine for me. I haven't felt the need for a pony bottle in many years, I have decent buddies. If I get mated with a less attentive buddy casually I am happy to stick with them for a dive.

[coulterboy]

That's right CaptnJack. All to often, divers just meet up at a dive site for the first time, then go for the splash. A lot of things are left on the assumption, that:
1. Nothing goes wrong during the dive - therefore, nobody checks on your buddy's gear configuration, in case "s..t"
happens. To me, I like to find out at least where his/her weight are located - if i have to dump them. What kind of
octo configuration they have (air source/inflator, long hose set-up, etc.).
2. Your newfound buddy just 15 minutes before the dive knows everything to do when "all hell breaks loose".
3. Your buddy gives you the same hand signals (most importantly on air left ), only for you to be confused on really what
those hand/signals really means. I have dived long enough to just about been given different hand signals on air
left. It takes me a second or two to figure out the air left in their tank based on the signals given.
Again, this is just my humble opinion and observation. Happens all the time. I have to admit, although not too often (very rare), I'm guilty of this.

On the double 80's, that wasn't really a solid choice for me. I just figured that since I'm a short guy, 5'6", 142 pounds, that the 80's would be good. I don't really have a plan in the near future to go doubles. Like you, I'm very comfortable with my HP100 at the depth you described. But most importantly, you mentioned decent buddies that you know have the concept of team diving and awareness. Thanks CaptnJack.

[jaytrigg27]

I am going to be more diligent in my predive briefings with all buddies including what you stated above. I thought I was pretty good hitting the high points, signals, gear configuration, plan, etc but now I'm going to make sure we both are on the same page before we splash.

[CaptnJack]

I just sneak a peak at their gauge...

[Nwbrewer]

I just sneak a peak at their gauge...

Much harder to do when it's a transmitter on their wrist.

[CaptnJack]

I just sneak a peak at their gauge...

Much harder to do when it's a transmitter on their wrist.

Grab wrist
turn over
look.

You won't have to do that too many times before they get a clue and either get a real gauge or maybe find a real buddy

Seriously why do people have to make this so complicated? "Show me your gauge please" vs $350 pony bottle to fill and maintain with seperate reg also to maintain, a bunch of extra crap hanging everywhere, and something you now gotta practice with, preferably with each buddy watching anyway...

Shoot, I have asked innumerable buddies how much gas they have left at various times for various reasons mostly for navigational purposes not because I thought they were going OOA on me any second. And I have been on the receiving end of the question countless times too. If its at all uncertain what their number signs are or if the answer seems strange then just look. If they are offended, consider that a huge red flag that you need a new "buddy".

[Norris]

I just sneak a peak at their gauge...

Much harder to do when it's a transmitter on their wrist.

Grab wrist
turn over
look.

You won't have to do that too many times before they get a clue and either get a real gauge or maybe find a real buddy

Seriously why do people have to make this so complicated? "Show me your gauge please" vs $350 pony bottle to fill and maintain with seperate reg also to maintain, a bunch of extra crap hanging everywhere, and something you now gotta practice with, preferably with each buddy watching anyway...

Shoot, I have asked innumerable buddies how much gas they have left at various times for various reasons mostly for navigational purposes not because I thought they were going OOA on me any second. And I have been on the receiving end of the question countless times too. If its at all uncertain what their number signs are or if the answer seems strange then just look. If they are offended, consider that a huge red flag that you need a new "buddy".

I agree with Jake, nothing less than 40cu.

[scottsax]

Shoot, I have asked innumerable buddies how much gas they have left at various times for various reasons mostly for navigational purposes not because I thought they were going OOA on me any second. And I have been on the receiving end of the question countless times too.

This.

The only reason I have a conversation about pressure underwater is because I had one on the surface in which we talked about turn pressure.

[CaptnJack]

Shoot, I have asked innumerable buddies how much gas they have left at various times for various reasons mostly for navigational purposes not because I thought they were going OOA on me any second. And I have been on the receiving end of the question countless times too.

This.

The only reason I have a conversation about pressure underwater is because I had one on the surface in which we talked about turn pressure.

At someplace like Edmonds I will happily wander around tracking my new-to-me guest buddy's consumption (and my own) as we go and head towards home at a reasonable time & pressure. Not coming back the way we went out makes a "turn pressure" a bit loosey goosey for me. I've never had anyone question why I'm asking if they are: a) warm enough and b) how much gas they have.

I agree in concept tho.

[scottsax]

Yeah, it depends on the dive and site, but for me remaining gas is kind of an in process checkpoint to let me know when it might be a good idea to think about turning around.

[CaptnJack]

Yeah, it depends on the dive and site, but for me remaining gas is kind of an in process checkpoint to let me know when it might be a good idea to think about turning around.

Sure. I think we both keep a) an eye on our respective buddies b) enough extra gas proportional to the depth, distance and conditions to handle unforeseen problems like freeflows or whatever with resorting to doubles or 40cf pony bottles for ordinary recreational dives.

Skills can solve the issues here a lot faster and simpler than gear.

[Dashrynn]

Yeah, it depends on the dive and site, but for me remaining gas is kind of an in process checkpoint to let me know when it might be a good idea to think about turning around.

Sure. I think we both keep a) an eye on our respective buddies b) enough extra gas proportional to the depth, distance and conditions to handle unforeseen problems like freeflows or whatever with resorting to doubles or 40cf pony bottles for ordinary recreational dives.

Skills can solve the issues here a lot faster and simpler than gear.

Awhile back me and blaiz had a discussion about regulator and tank valve mess ups. I can't remember the link or find it on my phone but, there was some interesting facts they revealed through a series of tests. Perhaps she or someone has it saved somewhere and care to share?

On a side note, I haven't had a the free flow I couldn't recover from..... so far...... (knock on wood)

[ArcticDiver]

This is another or those repetitive discussions that crop up from time to time with people who do not want to go the full doubles route. Almost always the diiscussion centres around how large a cyclinder to carry and how to mount it. Discussion content also almost always includes some conversation about what tank the questioner already has available.

Then it almost always includes some comment from someone like me who asks a simple question. Why use diffferent sized cylinders? Why not use the same size cylinder for both primary and secondary tanks? There are many diffferent methods of slinging a second cylinder. It can be a deco cylinder style sling, a rigid mount on the primary tank, and so on. he key is that mounting is siimple,gas calculations are simple and the second cylinder is readily available at home or when traveling.

I once saw a whole boatload of divers with extra bottles when I was at Nanaimo. They were using a bracket that let them attach a second AL80 to their primary.

So; why mess around with the "how much is ennough" calculation, or wiith some special rigging when just adding a second, AL80, either slung, or as I do it, on a bracket? Simple, fast, easy cheap, provides lots of gas, no need to go the full doubles route. Oh, did I mention "cheap"? Although, for the life of m I am at a loss to figure out why a few dollars one way or another makes any difference to someone who has spent thosands on an expensive sport like scuba.

[Joshua Smith]

[Seriously why do people have to make this so complicated? "Show me your gauge please" vs $350 pony bottle to fill and maintain with seperate reg also to maintain, a bunch of extra crap hanging everywhere, and something you now gotta practice with, preferably with each buddy watching anyway.

That's your take, and of course its valid. But many folks, myself included, actually like carrying a little something extra to breathe. There are at least as many pros as cons here, if not more. And remember, the OP did say he was interested in tech diving, down the road.

[pogiguy05]

You know I have 19cf pony on my tank. After reading what Jake also said i would have this to add. i always just my air by taking 3 breaths before donning my gear. this eventually drains the PSI of your pony bottle. so unless you have it topped off everytime you dive, then you might not have the full 19cf of air. makes me think about eventually slinging an AL40.

[nwscubamom]

OK, so here's a few questions:
I do NOT tech dive, nor plan on doing so...
I do NOT have a BP/wing BCD - just a normal jacket style one (but it does have a few D-rings
I DO carry a bulky camera, and spend a lot of time taking photos underwater
I rarely go below 90 feet - most dives are maxed out around 60-70.

I got a 19cf pony that I'm hoping to set up today - just got back from the hardware store (I love hardware stores!!) with an assortment of hoseclamps, tubing, poly braided line, SS Snaps, etc...

I'd like to sling the pony. Is there any good reason to sling it from the left side? Currently that's where my camera is, and I'm really concerned about the camera clanking into the pony and scratching (or worse!) the housing. My gauges are also on the left side, and it just seems like TOO much stuff on the left side. So any reason it can't be on the right?.

I'm more like CaptnJack when it comes to this stuff - usually I just keep track of my buddies air and mine throughout the dive - never had a pony previously. But I would like to do some easy, shallow solo dives in familiar places once in awhile and figured I better have a pony for redundancy in that case.

Also, is it a problem clipping it off to a NON-BP/wing type BCD?

- Janna

[Geek]

I think it mostly comes down to the "having the rescue side free" or whatever the offical term is, generaly that would be your right side, dominate hand, octo on that side etc. other than thinking about that stuff there isn't any reason to sling a pony on your right side I can think of.... of course I'm wrong a lot too