Sola 600's on sale...

[Linedog]

Dusty, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't your light have multiple brightness settings, low, med and high?

[fishb0y]

Dusty, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't your light have multiple brightness settings, low, med and high?

Also has strobe and S-O-S settings. Great light for the money IMHO.

[lavachickie]

Go on a dive with a solid team sometime, and pay attention to their communication through light signals. Having good light, and good light discipline, makes dives far more relaxing because you can stay on the same page, and reduce task loading. I don't have to look for my buddy, because he's passing his beam into my field of view every now and then. If his light is there, nice and stable, I know not only that he's there, but that he's ok.

Good illustration of one reason I enjoy night diving so much. And good call on pointing out a good light AND good light discipline. Lots of eye owies when a new diver gets a light cannon before having the tasking abilities to deal with it and waves it all around and blinds his buddies. Or hers. Not that I've, like, ever done that or anything. No way.

[lavachickie]

If I'm just a recreational diver, isn't a can light overkill?

I can see if I was doing tech dives but I'm not.

So as a rec diver today, light canons (can lights) seem overkill. Coupled with a real aversion to Christmas trees, I'm struggling to see the logic why a good handheld isn't just fine. I can carry it in a pocket and deploy when needed.

IMO, The issue of light power and penetration isn't an issue of rec vs tech. If you're at 30 ft in goo that you can't see 2-3 feet in, it's not like it's any easier for you to see through it if you are "just a recreational diver." Bad vis is bad vis, period, and 2-3 feet of viz at 30 ft is just as thick as 2-3 feet at 150. (There's more of it above you, but in talking about two people communicating, it is what it is).

I'm "just a rec diver." There may be some tech training way down the road in my future, but for the foreseeable future, recreational diving on the occasional vacation in warm water and regular dips in our cold PNW waters (2-3 times/month, usually). I've had some great dives in some shitty viz, so in most situations with strongly skilled buddies, bad viz doesn't dissuade me. I started with a little Intova torch, and have worked my way up a few steps. Each time I keep the old light as a backup (great for loaning out) and I will someday get to a canister light (made or purchased, depends). Won't be in the budget for a bit. But from my experience, there's really no such thing as too much light when talking about cutting through the goo.

Staying in contact with a buddy IS very important. Which means if the goo is bad, you might have to call a dive if you can't find someone unless you are touching. (Yes, I'll hand hold, but it puts a cramp in everyone's style.) But with a light... you can extend that range while on a dive with challenging viz, thus enabling you to dive in conditions you might not otherwise be able to and stick by the rule of being able to know where your buddy is.

That's my two cents, anyway.

[Tom Nic]

If only I could get to PT...anyone in the Seattle area that have one of your lights and would be willing to show it off for me? I've been wanting a canlight for awhile now....my little dinky Ikelite PCm is starting to tick off Geek since its absolutely useless lol

I'm usually diving with Bassman at his Thursday dives and am the happy owner of one of Dusty's lights. I'm in the Lakewood / Tacoma area and get my fills out of Tacoma Scuba and will be happy to show you my light ...when Wally isn't looking, or outside the shop, anyway! I absolutely LOVE it!

I was in the category of many divers with extreme light envy, and extreme pocketbook anemia - i.e. I'm not shelling out $1,000 to $1,500 or more for a light any time soon! I dove and still own a nightrider 14watt, and it is a good light but I don't like the wideness of it's beam. I also own two Light Canons (the UK variety, not the slang that Jeff was using to refer to can lights with) and should probably try and sell them sometime.

Hands down, a good can light with a goodman handle is the way to go in our waters.

Dusty's light, in the 3 to 4 hundred dollar range answered that need / desire for me. The light is as good or better than any 10 watt that I've seen, and as good as many 21 watt lights. This is not a matter of arguing who's light is better or more powerful - no need for that. It has a good tight beam that works well for signaling, and I pop a diffuser on it to light up certain subjects that I'm photographing, a task for which it works wonderfully.

The thing is bulletproof in its construction, and you'd really have to beat on it to break it - and I'm hard on equipment.

For those that can't afford a 35 - 50 watt Light Monkey water boiler it's a tremendous light. ...and no, I'm not getting a cut from Dusty... he's way too cheap.

Edit / addition - Even though Dusty's light's has multiple power settings I've found that I consistently only use it on high in our waters. Perhaps in a tropical setting I'd drop it down a notch, or if I was in the mood to relive my early 70's I might hit the strobe, but in our waters full power is the ticket. I haven't done more than two dives on a charge, and probably won't. If I'm headed to a place (BC) where I might do 3-4 cold water dives in a day I'll pick up an extra battery pack for 15 bucks.

[Jeff Pack]

Come on up to PT this weekend and I'll gladly let you use one of my lights and see for yourself what we are trying to get across to you.

Fair warning though we dive for 70 min or more so if'n your done after 30 min you will get escorted to the shallows and you will be on your own from there.

I'm ok with that, count me in.

[Dashrynn]

Jeff you sound like this skinny white guy who dove with the mukilteo crowd for awhile and learned more about advanced diving from them. A light cannon is a hand bulky dangling disco ball slightly expensive mistake, I have a BACKUP led light that has more power than that thing. Try jakes can light and listen to his advice, you won't be sorry.

Ex navy guy,
Curtis

Dash, that might be the first time you've posted something that didn't make me go :angry: You must be losing your edge.

Must be the Helicopter pilot mentality setting in. That or the constant warrant officer questioning (of doom) from a fellow former PNW diver. Then again you could have been DWIC (drinking while internet commenting).

Whatever it is, it isn't because of aliens...no never that

[coulterboy]

Just so you know Jeff, or the other peeps.

Dusty makes lights. He sells them.

H20doctor makes lights. He sells them.

Vlad makes lights. From what I know, he doesn't make lights for other people anymore. But I heard, he can be bribed.

Jake makes lights. Only for himself.

I have seen Ken McIntyre's light too in action underwater. It's also good. But again, he only made it for himself.

I have H20doctors latest light he made. It also has 5 modes/settings. Dusty's lights are very good too.

Jeff, you would save a lot of money if you buy a light from either H20doctor or Dusty.

[BASSMAN]

Although back on topic, if a light canon is such an important thing, why is it I see only a small subset of divers with them?

I own both but I believe the Light Canon is out dated by the new LED Lights.

Just to be clear, a "Light Canon" and a "Can Light" are two very different lights.
One hangs(Light Canon) and the other (Can Light)is, Battery pack secured to your BC and a light head secured to your hand or clipped to a D ring.
Just my P-02

Keith

[Norris]

Jeff there is nothing "WRONG" with your light. I think this thread got so active due to the way you were trying to "justify" not wanting a canister light. Now that you have initiated the arguement you will have many people shoving canister lights down your throat.
So essentially careful what you are stating as fact as many of us have made the mistakes of buying items only to turn around and REBUY the same item configured a little differently because we didn't want to be led around by the sheep herders at first.
Also you will learn that many people believe their way with such passion that it KILLS them that people will dive any other way. Is this bad? I don't think so. I mean if I found a GREAT "thing" that really helped me and makes everything a little better then I would be doing my friends a diservice if I didn't tell them about it. However; I treat my gear config as I wish others would. Like religion, if I am curious about yours, I will research or ask you. If you want to know why I do what I do, ask. I assure you every question you ask about gear will get the same flood of answers and insight as if you walked into a Christian church and asked a few people, "Hey whats this christianity all about?"
I believe people are generally helpful and want to save people the pain of buying and re-buying gear all to basically end up in the same place.

So careful about claims as to why you dont want the canister light, bp/w, and all the other "correct" diving gear as there are well thought out reasons for a lot of techreational gear configs, especially for up here in our frigid, dark waters. However bottom line is I would rather see someone diving whatever gear works for them than be discouraged or put in the poor house trying to keep up with what everyone is telling them they NEED.


Sincerely,
Rick

[Dusty2]

Come on up to PT this weekend and I'll gladly let you use one of my lights and see for yourself what we are trying to get across to you.

Fair warning though we dive for 70 min or more so if'n your done after 30 min you will get escorted to the shallows and you will be on your own from there.

If only I could get to PT...anyone in the Seattle area that have one of your lights and would be willing to show it off for me? I've been wanting a canlight for awhile now....my little dinky Ikelite PCm is starting to tick off Geek since its absolutely useless lol

Yes there are people in the Seattle area, Kinda.

Tomnic has one, A couple of the Oly guys do, and of course I live in Spanaway so I could meet you somewhere down this way
(when I'm not in PT )

[Jeff Pack]

Jeff there is nothing "WRONG" with your light. I think this thread got so active due to the way you were trying to "justify" not wanting a canister light. Now that you have initiated the arguement you will have many people shoving canister lights down your throat.
So essentially careful what you are stating as fact as many of us have made the mistakes of buying items only to turn around and REBUY the same item configured a little differently because we didn't want to be led around by the sheep herders at first.
Also you will learn that many people believe their way with such passion that it KILLS them that people will dive any other way. Is this bad? I don't think so. I mean if I found a GREAT "thing" that really helped me and makes everything a little better then I would be doing my friends a diservice if I didn't tell them about it. However; I treat my gear config as I wish others would. Like religion, if I am curious about yours, I will research or ask you. If you want to know why I do what I do, ask. I assure you every question you ask about gear will get the same flood of answers and insight as if you walked into a Christian church and asked a few people, "Hey whats this christianity all about?"
I believe people are generally helpful and want to save people the pain of buying and re-buying gear all to basically end up in the same place.

So careful about claims as to why you dont want the canister light, bp/w, and all the other "correct" diving gear as there are well thought out reasons for a lot of techreational gear configs, especially for up here in our frigid, dark waters. However bottom line is I would rather see someone diving whatever gear works for them than be discouraged or put in the poor house trying to keep up with what everyone is telling them they NEED.


Sincerely,
Rick

This might be the best, most well thought out post, I've ever read...

[CaptnJack]

Every one of my intermittent to regular buddies uses a canister light of some type. The kool-aid drinking ones and everyone else too.

The UK 10w HID light cannon is suitably bright but doesn't have very good beam focus and the pistol grip + lanyard (+disco ball) while holding the mass of batteries on the back of your hand (heavy and takes energy to hold up) is undesirable compared to a balanced lighthead with cord to remote canister.

Basically if you are serious about diving in the PNW you will either end up with a canister light or you will lust for one just out of reach due to $$.

[Jeff Pack]

Maybe so, and anyone a year from now (or earlier) should consider themselves absolutely free to tell me they told me so, but I just cant see myself needing a can light on every dive. Strapping a can on (ok already affixed, but same point), have a lead down my arm, and light head somewhere, is just something that doesnt work for me, unless I'll use it 100% of the time. I fully understand (and agree) with every argument made. They are a tool, and useful in many varied circumstances.

BUT.. as a new diver, with a big whopping 15 dives or so (sarcasm intended), I just havent needed one. The little frogman in the back of my head says he never needed one "back in the day" either. We did fine without light sabers back then.

So for the moment, I need something in between.

Something stowable in a pocket, that puts out enough light to do the job for at least a couple of dives. Would be nice if it was like my little Big Blue CF250 that has a Goodman type handle, but I'll compromise with handheld if I have to.

I was looking at the Big Blue Extreme at least as a starting point. I would have went for the Sola 600, but you all say its beam just wont cut it.

[BDub]

I haven't read this entire thread, but having gone through multiple sets of every single piece of gear imaginable, I've finally found (I'm a slow learner I guess)that for me personally, scaleability(sp?) goes a long way. While I love gear, I don't particularly enjoy buying new gear to replace gear that wasn't the ideal buying decision when I bought it. There's plenty of toys that I don't have. I'd rather spend my money on those.

You have 15 dives, you have no idea where your diving career may take you.

However, I think it's safe to say that one piece of gear every NW diver needs is a nice backup light. My suggestion is to focus your attention and wallet towards obtaining a nice LED backup light and use that on your next few dives while researching primary lights. Part of the research will hopefully include diving with others who have an LED can light, an HID can light, and their handheld, lantern and pistol grip counterparts.

Then you can make an educated decision on what personally works best for you for a primary light, and you'll also have the backup light taken care of.

[Grateful Diver]

Lights really are a matter of personal preference ... but in Puget Sound, when the runoff is flowing, or the plankton is blooming, it can get awfully dark down there ... even at relatively shallow depths. And even when it's not dark, you'll see so much more with light because the ambient filters out colors ... and critters are good enough at camouflage as it is. Having a good light can be the difference between having a memorable dive or coming out of the water thinking there's just not much down there.

When I first started diving I bought a little SL4, thinking it was awfully bright. My AOW instructor quickly told me it was a nice backup light, but get something bigger for a primary. I purchased a UK C8 for $49 and used it happily for a year or so. It seemed like plenty of light. Then I started diving with some folks who were using these 10W HID lights, and noticed how much more I could see ... so I got my first can light ... a Terkel. Used it for a couple years, then got light envy again and ended up with the 21W Salvo I'm still using ... had that light for about 7 years now, and it's still one of my favorite pieces of equipment.

I'm one of those folks who thinks that when it comes to lights, there can be too much of a good thing. Sometimes I think the lumen wars are counterproductive ... particularly if you've got some bigass light and are diving with someone who doesn't. You can't see their light at all if yours is constantly drowning theirs out ... and so you defeat the whole "communication" reason for having one. Gotta consider that when choosing who you're diving with.

Then there's those people who night dive because ... well ... they like diving in the dark. They're not gonna be too happy when some Rodney comes by bearing 50 watts of HID power and blows their night vision all to hell ... or scares away that octopus they've been carefully watching with the secondary cone of a little handheld. Gotta remember that folks dive for all sorts of reasons, and in all sorts of different ways ... and respect other people's differences.

To each their own. Everyone has their own style, their own budget, their own reasons, for choosing the equipment they choose. It ain't a contest ... let's not turn it into one ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[RoxnDox]

Lights really are a matter of personal preference ... but in Puget Sound, when the runoff is flowing, or the plankton is blooming, it can get awfully dark down there ... even at relatively shallow depths. And even when it's not dark, you'll see so much more with light because the ambient filters out colors ... and critters are good enough at camouflage as it is. Having a good light can be the difference between having a memorable dive or coming out of the water thinking there's just not much down there.

When I first started diving I bought a little SL4, thinking it was awfully bright. My AOW instructor quickly told me it was a nice backup light, but get something bigger for a primary. I purchased a UK C8 for $49 and used it happily for a year or so. It seemed like plenty of light. Then I started diving with some folks who were using these 10W HID lights, and noticed how much more I could see ... so I got my first can light ... a Terkel. Used it for a couple years, then got light envy again and ended up with the 21W Salvo I'm still using ... had that light for about 7 years now, and it's still one of my favorite pieces of equipment.

I'm one of those folks who thinks that when it comes to lights, there can be too much of a good thing. Sometimes I think the lumen wars are counterproductive ... particularly if you've got some bigass light and are diving with someone who doesn't. You can't see their light at all if yours is constantly drowning theirs out ... and so you defeat the whole "communication" reason for having one. Gotta consider that when choosing who you're diving with.

Then there's those people who night dive because ... well ... they like diving in the dark. They're not gonna be too happy when some Rodney comes by bearing 50 watts of HID power and blows their night vision all to hell ... or scares away that octopus they've been carefully watching with the secondary cone of a little handheld. Gotta remember that folks dive for all sorts of reasons, and in all sorts of different ways ... and respect other people's differences.

To each their own. Everyone has their own style, their own budget, their own reasons, for choosing the equipment they choose. It ain't a contest ... let's not turn it into one ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

There you go again - interjecting reasoned discourse into the midst of a budding light-saber duel! Why, the next thing you know people might end up talking nicely about using Macs vs PCs... Then what would the rest of us do for entertainment?

I also got a UK SL4, was told "nice backup light...", and now I have added a well-used and fully-functional UK 1200 to the collection so I can claim I have a primary light now (not bad for $25).

Jim

[eliseaboo]

Man, now I want a new light!! I mean, anything would be an upgrade for me, but still...

And while we're at it, I was wondering about split fins

*runs away*

[CaptnJack]

Jeff,
What job are trying to accomplish? Right now and eventually?

You really seem set on "small" fits in a pocket kinda thing. That's ok until you do get even modestly "separated" on a poor vis dive. Not usually at night since a little light goes surprisingly far when its totally dark. But a plankton filled daytime dive you can "lose" your buddy at 5ft whereas those of us with 10W HIDs or more get 15ft of wiggle room between us. Its a much more relaxing way to dive.

I have a 10w HID you could borrow sometime, although there are probably other available loaners closer to you as well.

[Jeff Pack]

That Big Blue Extreme (if you go by posted numbers) is a 1000 Lumen light. For real world figure, probably 700-800 Lumens?

So by that standard, it should work as good occassional use primary light, and is stowable. The only thing it doesnt have is a goodman handle, but I can live with that.

[airsix]

Re: Big Blue Extreme - I'm glad you're looking at real lights now, but you're still missing the mark. For that kind of money buy a light from Dusty. Seriously. Or for that money buy a second-hand Dive Right, Halcyon, or Salvo 10w HID. I get that you have an aversion to canisters, but you haven't even tried one. Go try one and then decide. Don't blow $400 on that thing without even test driving the solution so many people are recommending. I know you were a Seal and know a ton about diving, but there are also some damn smart and highly experienced people here trying to save you from blowing money and time on hard knocks.

Here's a little exercise.
Look back through this thread and find Paulicarp and Bdub's avatars.
Now ask yourself: If you were in the water looking at that diver would you be able to clearly distinguish hand signals at that distance? How about light signals? What if you were looking at something else and not looking directly at the diver? Light signals take the win without a doubt.

A word about light communications: We aren't talking about arbitrary light waving. There is an accepted vocabulary of standard signals. The best divers I know use them more than hand signals. They are clear, distinguishable, and effective in poor visibility and from any position (above, abreast, behind, below).

I'm happy to dive with anyone who is reasonable and committed to safe diving, but if you show up to dive without a light I'll give you one to borrow or we don't dive. If you turn it off I'm going to assume it broke and hand you a backup. If you won't use that either then the dive is over because unless you want to hold hands I need you to have a light.

In addition to the communication issue there's the fact that you want to see stuff. I did a dive a few years ago on a charter where the 3 other divers in the water with me had small hand-held lights I would consider backup or emergency lights. By the middle of the dive they were all following my light beam around like cats on a laser pointer. Back on the boat they all commented about how much life was revealed by my light and asked "Where can I get a light like that?". This was a daytime dive in Puget Sound in beautiful bright sunny conditions and on an amazing 30ft visibility day. We were only diving at 50ft. True story.

If someone stole all my gear and I had to start over my first purchase would be a drysuit and my second would be a canister light (but not really because I build my own canister lights).

-Ben

[ktb]

The only thing it doesnt have is a goodman handle, but I can live with that.

To quickly chime back in . . . your gear is your gear, and I'm the last person to tell you that you NEED something. I hate it when people do it to me. But as several others have said, we like to share experiences here--especially the bad--so hopefully we can spare some others the hassle of what we went through. (And FWIW, I started with a small light, then went to a light cannon, and now I have a can light--and I'd never go back. And my small one is now my back-up.)

Oh--I didn't think a goodman handle was all that big of a deal either when I started. Then I had dives where I needed BOTH hands to do something, and let me tell you, there is nothing more annoying than someone letting go of their handheld light while it's still on. DISCO BALL! And when I see lights like that, my first thought is that something is drastically wrong.

But there are plenty of folks here who will let you test drive all sorts of lights. It's worth it to take the time before shelling out lots of money. And someday you can do the same for someone else!

[Diver_C]

My most favorite piece of dive equipment is my 35-watt HID Salvo (n/k/a Light Monkey)! No question about it. It is bright (without being too bright), very reliable, and has long enough burn time for me (4+ hours). The only dives I do not use it on are tropical day dives. For ALL other dives, I don't dive unless I have it, and it is on the whole dive. Lights are important for seeing things, and communicating. I never expect to replace it. Never. I don't need anything brighter, and can't see how anything can be better. Only once has it failed me, and that was because in the five-plus years I owned it, I never replaced the $25 cord (which I now know should be done every couple years or so). I love the goodman handle, so I have the full use of both my hands, and if for some reason I need to take it my off my hand, I just clip it to my BC, and is the only thing dangling. I know of only a couple recreational divers around here who don't use can lights, but expect they will have them as soon as they can. Several people have suggested you should buy a back-up light (straight barrel, no handle) for now, and that might be a good idea, so if/when you decide to buy a can light, you will still have a useful light (back-up, banded to a shoulder strap). There are several good LED back-up lights out there. I think I have seen goodman handles for back-up lights. By the way, I am still just a recreational diver. Some day I will get to Cave, and Tech, but until then I will keep diving recreational dives with my awesome 35-w Salvo! Good luck!

[nwbobber]

If I only had a stowable light, that would be the only reason I didn't have a light on 100% of the time. Aside from the communication aspect, it is amazing how much life you find in cavities, inside old clamshells, inside pipes, that you would never even know was there unless you passed a light over it. When I dive, I am constantly scanning with my light. Now and then I pass my light in the field of vision of my buddy, which relieves them of having to strain their neck to see that I am just out of their peripheral vision. The battery pack of my can light is the heaviest part, and it is secured on my left side. I have adjusted my weighting for this and it balances well. The light head attached to my hand is fairly insignificant. I can move my light around without having to make major adjustments to stay trimmed properly. These properties all help to make canlights the simplest type of light to use. If mine broke, I would use my handheld UK SL3 Eled until I could get it fixed. I have a box of dangly pistol grip lights. They are nice for use in the back yard, but I would not take them diving..

[Dashrynn]

Well if you are hell bent on buying something semi expensive and bright, at least buy a great backup with high power like these. You could mount it on a goodman handle.

Narrow great for signalling
http://www.tecdivegear.com/back-up-ligh ... arrow.html