Sola 600's on sale...

Need advice on recreational gear configurations? Look no further than this equipment forum.
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Jeff Pack »

CaptnJack wrote:
Jeff Pack wrote:Kool Aid comes in all flavors.
And you've apparently tried how many of those? :penelope:
Well, lets see.

I drank the hard shell Kool Aid and got Oxygen Poisoning when the new cool rebreather I just had to have malfunctioned.
Drank the DSV Kool Aid and had one implode almost killing me and my team because they said I needed to have one to transport my team.

And on and on.

There's always someone around ready to serve you some kind of fancy, you gotta have it, kool aid.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Jeff Pack »

airsix wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:Scooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooter
Yep. Get a hard goodman so you can easily swap hands. It's handy for the reasons Richard stated, but especially so when scootering. "But I don't have a scooter" you say. Neither do I but my logbook says 17 of my last 25 dives were scooter dives. This place is full of enablers, but I do not have a problem. I can stop any time I want to.

Dont get me started on scooters, I want one again badly. Scooters are exponentially cool.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by CaptnJack »

Jeff Pack wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:
Jeff Pack wrote:Kool Aid comes in all flavors.
And you've apparently tried how many of those? :penelope:
Well, lets see.

I drank the hard shell Kool Aid and got Oxygen Poisoning when the new cool rebreather I just had to have malfunctioned.
Drank the DSV Kool Aid and had one implode almost killing me and my team because they said I needed to have one to transport my team.

And on and on.

There's always someone around ready to serve you some kind of fancy, you gotta have it, kool aid.
Nice to see definitions changing :angelblue:
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
User avatar
Paulicarp
Aquanaut
Posts: 646
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Paulicarp »

Jeff Pack wrote:Kool Aid comes in all flavors.
Again, come do the MMM. There are some divers there who will take the time to explain the "why" behind what they use, and then you can take it as the free advice it is, and they're so NOT kool-aid that they'll probably still dive with you.
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Jeff Pack »

If it happens on weekend, I'll be there. But thats the only time I can dive.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
scubnewb
Compulsive Diver
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by scubnewb »

***Dizzy**** from reading evey post... I just ordered a Q40 and SL4 to use till I can get a good quality primary can light or light cannon or what ever it is that I decide I want and can afford. All I know is I want something that is not to bulky, easy to handle, plenty bright but not to overwhelming, and gets the job done so I dont need to buy anything else ever again that fits in my $200-$300/350 budget...

Now please point me the right way...
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do."
-Confucius
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Jeff Pack »

Let me tell you what I've learned when it comes to lights...

1> Do Not Poke the Bear
2> Do Not Feed the Bear
3> Do Not Look at the Bear


:boxer:
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
Jeremy
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:25 pm

Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Jeremy »

scubnewb wrote:***Dizzy**** from reading evey post... I just ordered a Q40 and SL4 to use till I can get a good quality primary can light or light cannon or what ever it is that I decide I want and can afford. All I know is I want something that is not to bulky, easy to handle, plenty bright but not to overwhelming, and gets the job done so I dont need to buy anything else ever again that fits in my $200-$300/350 budget...

Now please point me the right way...
Buy a light from Dusty - $350
User avatar
Nwbrewer
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4624
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:59 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Nwbrewer »

Here's a short light use clip from Monday night. It was light when we got in the water, and if you looked up, you could see light at the surface, but even 40' down it was DARK.

H20doc (the light in the distance) was not on our "Team" but he wanted to signal us to come see the Lumpsucker. Without a good primary, Maxtrax and I wouldn't have gotten to see something very cool.

[vimeo]http://www.vimeo.com/33379949[/vimeo]

Mine is a 10watt LED, Max(my buddy for the dive) had a light canon, and the doc had one of his canlights.
"Screw "annual" service,... I get them serviced when they break." - CaptnJack (paraphrased)


"you do realize you're supposed to mix the :koolaid: with water and drink it, not snort the powder directly from the packet, right? :smt064 " - Spatman
User avatar
Paulicarp
Aquanaut
Posts: 646
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Paulicarp »

scubnewb wrote:***Dizzy**** from reading evey post... I just ordered a Q40 and SL4 to use till I can get a good quality primary can light or light cannon or what ever it is that I decide I want and can afford. All I know is I want something that is not to bulky, easy to handle, plenty bright but not to overwhelming, and gets the job done so I dont need to buy anything else ever again that fits in my $200-$300/350 budget...

Now please point me the right way...
I think the point is that you don't need to spend more than your $350 to have a "good quality primary can light." Dusty is one option, a used 10 watt Salvo/LM, or ask around and guys like Nwbrewer, H2O doc and airsix are willing to give tons of good advice about how to build your own. A big part of the decision has to do with how you want to dive. If you intend to dive in a vertical position, the pistol grip is less of a problem for you. If you want to learn to dive in trim and control your buoyancy, it helps to put the can (which has the heavy parts) close to your center of gravity so you don't have as much trouble balancing a bunch of battery weight way out in front of you. If you plan to use your light for general illumination or video, a broad soft light is preferable; but if you want to communicate, it helps to have a light that either has a strong hot spot in the center, or the ability to focus so you can put all that power in one direction to give clear light signals to your buddies. Do you dive with your primary on a long hose? Then the canister is a perfect catch to hold that hose in place. If you don't use a long hose, that value is lost for you. Jeff asked about the Sola, and for the money, there are other solutions that offer many advantages that aren't quantified in lumens, burn time etc.

So it's not an easy "point me in the right way" kind of question. It depends a lot on how you choose to dive. Why a can light? Why a long hose? Why blade fins? Why compass on left wrist, depth on right wrist? There are well thought out answers to these questions, and it's not just all because of kool-aid or because someone cool does it that way. That's why I've invited you and Jeff to come to MMM and see in practice the reasons why.

The first light I bought was a used Halcoyn Scout for $40. I've since dropped in an LED to replace the halogen bulb, and it still serves as a backup on every dive. It was pathetic for a main light, but it did the job for the first bunch of dives until I got my can light. I'm glad I saved that $300 I was considering spending on a UK and put it toward a better solution right from the start.
User avatar
scubnewb
Compulsive Diver
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by scubnewb »

Thank you for the very non persuasive yet vey educational advice :partyman: I think overall i have a pretty good understanding of where most peepolas are coming from in general, and I know what direction I am going and have a good idea of what I want... I like what I heard about the light with all the briteness options and strobing... but I am all about value and who can build the best light at the fairest price, as well as often fabricating my own things as well. I have seen one of these guys lights before, not sure whos it was but Coulterboy on this board has one and he showed it to me when met him recently at his place. PRETTY FRIGGEN BRIGHT!!!! Making one just doesnt seem like it should be that difficult (not to knock anyones craft) but its really basic circuitry when it comes to flashlights as I have been taking them apart and making things out of them since I was a kid lol... but the whole water/crush proof thing is a learning curve that would have to be conquered... I did see a really cool video where a guy made a light with friggen mineral oil and a 4 dollar home depot light and was down at 80'... pretty damm genius what he came up with, but ummm i dont want to have to deal with mineral oil everytime i change my batteries LMAO! :rofl:


Paulicarp wrote:
scubnewb wrote:***Dizzy**** from reading evey post... I just ordered a Q40 and SL4 to use till I can get a good quality primary can light or light cannon or what ever it is that I decide I want and can afford. All I know is I want something that is not to bulky, easy to handle, plenty bright but not to overwhelming, and gets the job done so I dont need to buy anything else ever again that fits in my $200-$300/350 budget...

Now please point me the right way...
I think the point is that you don't need to spend more than your $350 to have a "good quality primary can light." Dusty is one option, a used 10 watt Salvo/LM, or ask around and guys like Nwbrewer, H2O doc and airsix are willing to give tons of good advice about how to build your own. A big part of the decision has to do with how you want to dive. If you intend to dive in a vertical position, the pistol grip is less of a problem for you. If you want to learn to dive in trim and control your buoyancy, it helps to put the can (which has the heavy parts) close to your center of gravity so you don't have as much trouble balancing a bunch of battery weight way out in front of you. If you plan to use your light for general illumination or video, a broad soft light is preferable; but if you want to communicate, it helps to have a light that either has a strong hot spot in the center, or the ability to focus so you can put all that power in one direction to give clear light signals to your buddies. Do you dive with your primary on a long hose? Then the canister is a perfect catch to hold that hose in place. If you don't use a long hose, that value is lost for you. Jeff asked about the Sola, and for the money, there are other solutions that offer many advantages that aren't quantified in lumens, burn time etc.

So it's not an easy "point me in the right way" kind of question. It depends a lot on how you choose to dive. Why a can light? Why a long hose? Why blade fins? Why compass on left wrist, depth on right wrist? There are well thought out answers to these questions, and it's not just all because of kool-aid or because someone cool does it that way. That's why I've invited you and Jeff to come to MMM and see in practice the reasons why.

The first light I bought was a used Halcoyn Scout for $40. I've since dropped in an LED to replace the halogen bulb, and it still serves as a backup on every dive. It was pathetic for a main light, but it did the job for the first bunch of dives until I got my can light. I'm glad I saved that $300 I was considering spending on a UK and put it toward a better solution right from the start.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do."
-Confucius
User avatar
airsix
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:38 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by airsix »

scubnewb wrote:Making one just doesnt seem like it should be that difficult (not to knock anyones craft) but its really basic circuitry when it comes to flashlights
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Airsix Dusty2 NWbrewer H2Odoc


You're right that it's really easy to make a dive light. What's hard is making a good one. Waterproofing is the easy part. You have to find a light-engine (LED, incandescent, HID) that is a good value, durable, efficient, and provides enough output (at an acceptable color temp). You also need to consider an adequate heat-path for the parts that get hot. Most DIY lights fall on their face in this department. Then there's finding an effective method of gathering and focusing the output - another frequent DIY fail. Water has a refractive index similar to glass and hard plastics so you can't use any external optics. It'll need a power source with internal resistance low enough to support the current demand that provides the desired run-time, and lastly you have to package it into a form-factor that works well for diving.

Piece of cake. :smt064 It only took me 5 light projects and 12 optic/reflector variations to finally get a really good one. Granted, they all worked, none were terrible, and I'm picky. But there's a whole lot more to it than just wiring up a battery, switch, and light-bulb.

Should you do it? Of course! Is it easy? Not really.

-Ben
"The place looked like a washing machine full of Josh's carharts. I was not into it." --Sockmonkey
User avatar
Norris
NWDC Moderator
NWDC Moderator
Posts: 4710
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Norris »

airsix wrote:
scubnewb wrote:Making one just doesnt seem like it should be that difficult (not to knock anyones craft) but its really basic circuitry when it comes to flashlights
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Airsix Dusty2 NWbrewer H2Odoc


You're right that it's really easy to make a dive light. What's hard is making a good one. Waterproofing is the easy part. You have to find a light-engine (LED, incandescent, HID) that is a good value, durable, efficient, and provides enough output (at an acceptable color temp). You also need to consider an adequate heat-path for the parts that get hot. Most DIY lights fall on their face in this department. Then there's finding an effective method of gathering and focusing the output - another frequent DIY fail. Water has a refractive index similar to glass and hard plastics so you can't use any external optics. It'll need a power source with internal resistance low enough to support the current demand that provides the desired run-time, and lastly you have to package it into a form-factor that works well for diving.

Piece of cake. :smt064 It only took me 5 light projects and 12 optic/reflector variations to finally get a really good one. Granted, they all worked, none were terrible, and I'm picky. But there's a whole lot more to it than just wiring up a battery, switch, and light-bulb.

Should you do it? Of course! Is it easy? Not really.

-Ben
Agreed. I was going to and then I started looking around on light forums and what not, got a headache, then paid someone else...ha ha ha
**Pinch it, don't stick your finger through. You're just pinching a bigger hole.
CAPTNJACK - 2012**
User avatar
Dashrynn
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1873
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:24 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Dashrynn »

airsix wrote:
scubnewb wrote:Making one just doesnt seem like it should be that difficult (not to knock anyones craft) but its really basic circuitry when it comes to flashlights
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Airsix Dusty2 NWbrewer H2Odoc


You're right that it's really easy to make a dive light. What's hard is making a good one. Waterproofing is the easy part. You have to find a light-engine (LED, incandescent, HID) that is a good value, durable, efficient, and provides enough output (at an acceptable color temp). You also need to consider an adequate heat-path for the parts that get hot. Most DIY lights fall on their face in this department. Then there's finding an effective method of gathering and focusing the output - another frequent DIY fail. Water has a refractive index similar to glass and hard plastics so you can't use any external optics. It'll need a power source with internal resistance low enough to support the current demand that provides the desired run-time, and lastly you have to package it into a form-factor that works well for diving.

Piece of cake. :smt064 It only took me 5 light projects and 12 optic/reflector variations to finally get a really good one. Granted, they all worked, none were terrible, and I'm picky. But there's a whole lot more to it than just wiring up a battery, switch, and light-bulb.

Should you do it? Of course! Is it easy? Not really.

-Ben
Rebuilding is easy, piecing together part's and sourcing reliable parts is the problem. So far i have rebuilt 5 lights, 2 of those being backup and 3 primary canister lights working on two backup primaries as of the moment(time consuming). Granted I have done more research than wasting materials, but I get it on the first try.

But the navy taught me electronics and soldering....so maybe not so easy for the average person.
User avatar
H20doctor
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4232
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by H20doctor »

I made coulterboys light jeremy...
NWDC Rule #2 Pictures Or it didn't Happen
User avatar
sitkadiver
Submariner
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:33 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by sitkadiver »

scubnewb wrote:***Dizzy**** from reading evey post... I just ordered a Q40 and SL4 to use till I can get a good quality primary can light or light cannon or what ever it is that I decide I want and can afford. All I know is I want something that is not to bulky, easy to handle, plenty bright but not to overwhelming, and gets the job done so I dont need to buy anything else ever again that fits in my $200-$300/350 budget...

Now please point me the right way...
I have 2 H2O doc lights and they're great. The new version is more light than I need on most dives and works great for lighting up entire rick walls at 60 and 70 feet. My older H2O doc light is still going strong and is my lender for when my friends lose a light or battery or whatever else happens to those "Commercial" quality lights they have.

Dave S. has a z light and likes it a lot.

These guys are certainly in your price range and they build quality kit. I would check with them before going the mass produced commercial route.
I do not believe in taking unnecesary risks, but a life without risk is not worth living.
-Charles Lindbergh
User avatar
H20doctor
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4232
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by H20doctor »

sitkadiver wrote:
scubnewb wrote:***Dizzy**** from reading evey post... I just ordered a Q40 and SL4 to use till I can get a good quality primary can light or light cannon or what ever it is that I decide I want and can afford. All I know is I want something that is not to bulky, easy to handle, plenty bright but not to overwhelming, and gets the job done so I dont need to buy anything else ever again that fits in my $200-$300/350 budget...

Now please point me the right way...
I have 2 H2O doc lights and they're great. The new version is more light than I need on most dives and works great for lighting up entire rick walls at 60 and 70 feet. My older H2O doc light is still going strong and is my lender for when my friends lose a light or battery or whatever else happens to those "Commercial" quality lights they have.

Dave S. has a z light and likes it a lot.

These guys are certainly in your price range and they build quality kit. I would check with them before going the mass produced commercial route.

Thank you dave..
NWDC Rule #2 Pictures Or it didn't Happen
User avatar
H20doctor
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4232
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by H20doctor »

H20doc (the light in the distance) was not on our "Team" but he wanted to signal us to come see the Lumpsucker. Without a good primary, Maxtrax and I wouldn't have gotten to see

Team ? What team.. We were diving , as divers.. You crack me up :rofl: :rofl:
NWDC Rule #2 Pictures Or it didn't Happen
User avatar
scubnewb
Compulsive Diver
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by scubnewb »

I really think it may just boils down to the type of person you are and what kind of tools you have in your personal toolbox. I wouldnt expect someone with no experience to be able to go out and build one, so thats not what I am saying. But it just seems like if you have a basic understanding of fabrication and what it is you are trying to accomplish and the ability to productively collect, sort and process information and arent the type thats not afraid to ask someone for some advice then you would be able to make a good quality light being a mechanically inclined person. I applaud the gentleman who have built the ones in the area that I am hearing such great reputaions about. Anything worth doing takes time and effort, espeacially to perfect it to the levels these guys have done. Being a fabrication head myself growing up with a monkey wrench in my diaper (Literally We Have Pics, Thank You Grandpops) I can appreciate what I have heard from these guys and the information provided. For me it breaks down to time avaiable for the project or better yet the lack of... and my impatient self wanting this light ASAP LOL!!!

If anyone wants to PM me some $$$quotes$$$ and information about thier work and get the process going that would be great as I am anxious to get my light wrapped up as it is getting darker and darker out earlier and earlier now days. Plus I got a hole burning in my pocket and I dont want to end up going out and partying it away LOL!!! :funky: :funky: :funky:
airsix wrote:
scubnewb wrote:Making one just doesnt seem like it should be that difficult (not to knock anyones craft) but its really basic circuitry when it comes to flashlights
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Airsix Dusty2 NWbrewer H2Odoc


You're right that it's really easy to make a dive light. What's hard is making a good one. Waterproofing is the easy part. You have to find a light-engine (LED, incandescent, HID) that is a good value, durable, efficient, and provides enough output (at an acceptable color temp). You also need to consider an adequate heat-path for the parts that get hot. Most DIY lights fall on their face in this department. Then there's finding an effective method of gathering and focusing the output - another frequent DIY fail. Water has a refractive index similar to glass and hard plastics so you can't use any external optics. It'll need a power source with internal resistance low enough to support the current demand that provides the desired run-time, and lastly you have to package it into a form-factor that works well for diving.

Piece of cake. :smt064 It only took me 5 light projects and 12 optic/reflector variations to finally get a really good one. Granted, they all worked, none were terrible, and I'm picky. But there's a whole lot more to it than just wiring up a battery, switch, and light-bulb.

Should you do it? Of course! Is it easy? Not really.

-Ben
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do."
-Confucius
User avatar
Nwbrewer
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4624
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:59 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Nwbrewer »

H20doctor wrote:H20doc (the light in the distance) was not on our "Team" but he wanted to signal us to come see the Lumpsucker. Without a good primary, Maxtrax and I wouldn't have gotten to see

Team ? What team.. We were diving , as divers.. You crack me up :rofl: :rofl:
All I meant was you weren't buddied with Max or I on that dive, and therefore not expected to stick close to us like a buddy would.
"Screw "annual" service,... I get them serviced when they break." - CaptnJack (paraphrased)


"you do realize you're supposed to mix the :koolaid: with water and drink it, not snort the powder directly from the packet, right? :smt064 " - Spatman
User avatar
H20doctor
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4232
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by H20doctor »

Nwbrewer wrote:
H20doctor wrote:H20doc (the light in the distance) was not on our "Team" but he wanted to signal us to come see the Lumpsucker. Without a good primary, Maxtrax and I wouldn't have gotten to see

Team ? What team.. We were diving , as divers.. You crack me up :rofl: :rofl:
All I meant was you weren't buddied with Max or I on that dive, and therefore not expected to stick close to us like a buddy would.
Its cause I dive as a rebel.. Rebel diving, team solo..

I challenge you all to a light build off show Down.. !!!
Just like occ vs paul junior vs jessie james.. bring it !!
NWDC Rule #2 Pictures Or it didn't Happen
User avatar
Jeremy
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:25 pm

Sola 600's on sale...

Post by Jeremy »

H20doctor wrote:I made coulterboys light jeremy...
Very impressive. For some reason I was under the impression you don't make those anymore...or DO YOU??
User avatar
eliseaboo
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1002
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:50 am

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by eliseaboo »

Jeremy wrote:
H20doctor wrote:I made coulterboys light jeremy...
Very impressive. For some reason I was under the impression you don't make those anymore...or DO YOU??
Image
User avatar
coulterboy
Amphibian
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:19 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by coulterboy »

eliseaboo wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
H20doctor wrote:I made coulterboys light jeremy...
Very impressive. For some reason I was under the impression you don't make those anymore...or DO YOU??
Image
Yes he does. You just have to ask him the right way and nicely. :angelblue:
When was the last time you did something for the first time?
User avatar
H20doctor
I've Got Gills
Posts: 4232
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: Sola 600's on sale...

Post by H20doctor »

i used to make dive lights..Im retired.. I make custom stuff.. 1 of a kind stuff , no light is the same , If im approached to build a project , and it looks like something i want to do ? maybe..? but as for now im making Video lights.. big bright video lights .. thats where the money is for me

Look here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90194211@N ... 369016137/
NWDC Rule #2 Pictures Or it didn't Happen
Post Reply