Trouble Descending

[Jeff Pack]

First, off, I'll preface this with I'm not asking for advice, its just a question...

I still seem to have trouble descending. I have a weight that once I'm down, is pretty well dialed in. Doesnt take alot of air to manage it and the end of the dive test I'm pretty close, maybe just slightly underweighted. (1-2 that would be it, more like 1 now, since I changed from 30-31).

The problem though is descending. Even when I dont (to quote Bob) "Do the Happy Feet" dance, I can only seem to get a few feet underwater and kinda stall. To some extent I'm not holding my exhalation long enough probably.

So I find myself instead just flipping head first, and powering down abit until pressure takes over. Seems to work well for me.

I know in the pure school of diving, you go feet first, and flatten somewhere on the way down. Sans the argument of feet versus head first descents, is flipping and powering down such a bad thing?

[wa_divergal]

I don't think I've ever really thought that hard about it.

I can preface that I don't like surface swim, so I generally follow the bottom or we're diving off an anchor or buoy line.

[Linedog]

Perhaps a bit of air is hiding somewhere in your drysuit.

[LCF]

No, there is nothing "wrong" with swimming down -- in fact, in the days before BCDs, it was the only way people COULD get down in thick wetsuits (because if you weighted yourself neutral at the surface in a thick suit, you were dangerously negative at depth). It presents a few problems with coordinating the descent with your buddy, but if you just swim a few feet and then wait to group up and continue the descend horizontal, that's just fine.

[pensacoladiver]

First, off, I'll preface this with I'm not asking for advice, its just a question...


I know in the pure school of diving, you go feet first, and flatten somewhere on the way down. Sans the argument of feet versus head first descents, is flipping and powering down such a bad thing?

Since you are not looking for advice, I will just comment.

IIRC, that style is also termed "Duck diving". My buddy used to do it up until recently. I told him if he continued, I was going to paint "STROKE" across his fins.

[cofford]

Bob gave me some advice one day. Hold your breath on the surface while you dump your wing, then exhale. I find that I sink a lot easier that way.

[Jeff Pack]

Yup, same thing he taught me, exhale, and then exhale even deeper.
As I stated above, I think I'm not holding that exhaled breath long enough.

Instead I just revert back to the old habit of I guess you all call it Duck Diving, which is how I learned it back in the day.

[CaptnJack]

With a full tank, empty lungs, vented drysuit, and empty wing/BC you should be at least 7lbs negative. A 7lb brick of lead is quite a bit. You've got gas trapped someplace holding you back. Sure you can kick down but why work against a bubble of gas you could vent?

[Dashrynn]

First, off, I'll preface this with I'm not asking for advice, its just a question...


I know in the pure school of diving, you go feet first, and flatten somewhere on the way down. Sans the argument of feet versus head first descents, is flipping and powering down such a bad thing?

Since you are not looking for advice, I will just comment.

IIRC, that style is also termed "Duck diving". My buddy used to do it up until recently. I told him if he continued, I was going to paint "STROKE" across his fins.

At least then we could tell his from ours. I think I may have done the "Duck Diving" technique once for giggles. Nowadays it's normally "Mission Impossible" drops.

If you're weighted properly, the descent should be relaxed with no fighting(if you aren't trapping air in your feet). But that's just me, I like playing the M.I theme in the back of my head while descents and occasionally smacking someone on the butt or tapping their shoulder .

[wa_divergal]

Nowadays it's normally "Mission Impossible" drops.

Great.... does this mean I have to go watch a Tom Cruise movie now

I usually avoid those :shootself:

[Jeff Pack]

When I dove with Bob, I could reliably get down with 30, but havent been able to since. Since I'm doing nothing different kit wise, its probabably my happy feet, and not exhaling enough.

But honestly, I like going down head first, but again thats just because its how I learned it. So its comfortable to revert back to that.

Its like ascending, I like coming up vertical, but thats how I was taught too.

I might just have to go solo dive redondo for a day, and just practice my descents/ascents at 20ft again.

thx everyone.

[nwbobber]

Great.... does this mean I have to go watch a Tom Cruise movie now

I usually avoid those :shootself:

+1

[Jeff Pack]

Hey, anyone that can jump on a 200mph bullet train, with no goggles and avoid their retina's being torn out, is 'Da Man!"

[Blow-N-Bubbles]

Here's what I did when I was having issues desending from the surface...worked for me anyway. I take a deep breath while I'm deflating my BCD, and during this time I Kick myself up out of the water ( doesn't take alot of effort ). I can get about 6-8 inches up, once the BCD is empty then stop kicking and exhale. The Drop rate is now greater, with a empty BCD and lungs exhaling it all goes together. Once I get to about 6-8 feet ( HUD display helps alot here ), I level out and SKYDIVE AKA controlled desent, to my desired depth. ( sometimes spinning in circles just to have fun ). This is also a good time to adjust your gear, equalize ears and

I found that the little extra downward momentum helped tremendously in breaking the surface and getting down.

If was me....I would just add a few lbs and call it good. Personally I like being a few lbs over as it helps alot at the end of the dive, allows for a little more air in the suit. I got tired of trying to " dial it all in perfectly". Every dive seemed to be a little off here and there ( Salinity issues, big lunch!! ) so I now run 2 lbs over and call it good, no issues getting down or staying down, even at 6 feet on exit.

Being a new diver ( 150 dives ) I still find numerous issues to tweak before, during and after each dive. I played the " perfect bouyancy " game for to long and have found that with every dive I get better and better, even when I'm not trying to focus on just one thing, as well as I have more FUN and less fustration.

[Beefcake]

I had trouble with trapped air in my last BCD (Black Diamond) for some reason. My current BPW setup doesn't seem to give me any issues. The other times I've noticed trouble decending were after tough surface swims; the answer was obvious....

[Mongo]

I avoid cabage, broccoli, and beans before a dive....

[LCF]

Jeff, if you want to go out with somebody one day and just practice descents, and get some feedback and maybe some video, I'd be happy to help you do that. I think there are quite a few advantages to being able to descend feet first and then level off at three feet or so. But If you are correctly weighted and having problems descending, there is nothing wrong with kicking down a few feet. What is important is that you can remain in eye contact with your buddies during the descent, because descent is one of the times when a wide variety of problems may make themselves known, from unsuspected gear issues to problems with the ears. If you can do your swim-down thing and be a solid part of your buddy team within just a few feet, then it's hard to knock your technique. If you have to swim down ten feet or more . . . well, in some water conditions, that's enough to make a permanent buddy separation, which you really don't want.

[SeanKylgod]

I find that there is always extra air trapped somewhere in my suit that I cant seem to vent before descending, then i descend, stop at about 15fsw and lift and jiggle a bit on my exhaust and sure enough, it vents and I no longer have to do the "happy feet" dance to descend. I always forget to "burp" my suit before I hit the water as well, so that is definitely part of it.

[Jeff Pack]

Here's what I did when I was having issues desending from the surface...worked for me anyway. I take a deep breath while I'm deflating my BCD, and during this time I Kick myself up out of the water ( doesn't take alot of effort ). I can get about 6-8 inches up, once the BCD is empty then stop kicking and exhale.

I was kind of wondering about this way myself, instead of duck dive, or just exhale and sink. At least a tiny bit of downward momentum.

Possibly avoid the happy feet as well.

[Mateo1147]

When I leave the surface and fully exhale it seems like forever before I can breath again and stay down. The combination of a little residual air in your bc and misc. air in your drysuit can make you feel really buoyant. I used to "duck dive" also. It just took more dives to finally get leaving the surface down.

For instance: When you enter the water have you notice that your drysuit isn't really that snug a fit even if you manage to get most of the air out when you zip up? On exit, your suit feels like it has been vacuum sealed to your body. That difference is all the air that's making it hard for you to leave the surface.

We can do a couple practice descents tomorrow.

[Jeff Pack]

Sure, although remember I wear a Whites Fusion, those things dont hold air much at all when exhausted on shore with the
"squat and hug myself" move...

[BASSMAN]

Nowadays it's normally "Mission Impossible" drops.

:norris: Dat's the way... uh ha - uh ha... I like it... uh ha - uh ha!

[girldiver]

Relax...like a rag doll.

When you're tense or nervous...you are more buoyant. (This is why new divers take weight off of their belt so quickly) If you relax like a rag doll, you'll descend if you're properly weighted.

The problem tends to be...the diver worries about whether they can descend (especially when diving with other people and feeling the pressure to do well) and then they tense up. The mere act of flipping over and "powering down" is going to have you tensing all of your muscles. If you were correctly weighted when working with Bob, then I would suggest making sure you're not winded after a long surface swim, exhale slowly (as previously suggested) and then "relax into the water". To become "one with the water" you must work with it...not against it.

You've been diving with competent buddies from this board...so they will wait and allow you to sink slowly.

[And on the record...please no solo diving at Redondo...unless you're trained for it (by someone who TEACHES solo diving) and have the proper redundancy on your person. ]

[Jeff Pack]

hmm, didnt think about tensing up, might be doing that abit too I suspect. Thx!

[Nwbrewer]

hmm, didnt think about tensing up, might be doing that abit too I suspect. Thx!

+1 on both of Cindy's points. You need to relax more to sink. I used to have the same issue when I was new, and used to power down also. Just relaxing into the water is the way to go.

Going out for a solo dive in order to get over issues when you're new isn't a good idea. We lost a diver a few years back at cove 2 doing just that. Find a buddy who also wants to work on skills and go out and work on it. Another set of eyes (even better with a video camera) is helpful in diagnosing issues.

Jake