What would I do if.....?

[BASSMAN]

The whole, Stop -Breathe- Think and React can be used in several applications other than Scuba but are really the most basic combat to a pannick situation. How many times, as a new diver, have you stopped to figure something out with your, or you buddies gear, only to find out you both are ascending towards the surface because you are holding your breath, as you are thinking about what to do. This is where I need to practice my SMB deployment skills. When I get in an argument with my wife, I need to Stop - Breathe - Think and then... React!

[cofford]

Something else to think about after the events this weekend...If, after surfacing from a dive, a group of other divers is waiting for you on the beach with a DAN O2 kit, asking you to use it...DO IT. I know we all learn in Rescue that divers typically refuse to go on O2. We were joking the other day that you can tell the difference between a rec diver and a tec diver by asking them to go on O2 at the end of the dive. The rec diver will say "no thanks, I don't need it". The tec diver will say "Free O2? Sweet!". Going on O2 makes you feel better after the dive, doesn't hurt anything, and may keep you from getting DCS. The people asking you to use it saw something that concerned them enough to meet you on the beach. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Dusty2]

While I was typing this there were several other posts so this may be redundundunt

IMHO the rush to AOW is one of the culprits. Far to many new divers want to rush into AOW so they can go deeper and the other things that it is supposed to qualify you for. Notice I said qualify and not train you because that is what most classes are for. Just to get that magic AOW card. I remember people telling me early on that AOW is easy. No classes no skills to learn just do 5 dives and your good! REALLY??? This is what gets people killed.

I am not pointing at anyone. Just saying this is the attitude I saw when I was new and certainly not qualified to to be what I feel is an AOW level diver. I remember one instructor that insisted that you do the advanced buoyancy skills as part of your (optional's) for AOW cert and thinking wow I won't do that class. Now I realize she was on the right track and it should be one of the mandatory skills BEFORE deep dive or boat dive. My feeling is that I wouldn't call some one with 50 dives an experienced diver simply because they survived that many dives. Buoyancy is ,IMHO,THE single most important skill to get you to the next level and the one most people have the most trouble learning. Some can get this down much faster than others but no one should feel they are ready for AOW until this is second nature. You can't stop, think, act if you can't control you buoyancy.

[ljjames]

Back to the "prevention" idea...

<This is not about me rjack, so you don't need to make comments about backing off on my diving, this is coming directly from discussions over the weekend>

What would you do if you were on the logs, narc'd out of your skulls (maybe with a bit of the dark narc thanks to CO2 from the swim over) and suddenly you feel like you are a long way from home and simply "not OK". You want to not be there anymore, your heart is pounding, you are breathing like a freight train, and there is a lot of water between you and the surface.

No matter the dive, no matter how much you paid for gas, no matter how far you drove, no matter how much your buddies want to do something, know your comfort level. If you are getting the niggles underwater do not be afraid to turn the dive before the objective. Especially with a 'deeper' swimming dive (without the benefit of helium). Don't be afraid to seem less than bad-ass cause you want to turn the dive cause you got a bit spooked or felt the boogie man. Don't be afraid of letting your classmates down. Diving scared is no fun and prevents you from being a good solid buddy. Fear eats up bandwidth to deal with stuff like buddy awareness, gas management and buoyancy.

As has already been stated, stop, breath, breath again, act. Thing is, it isn't going to always just 'clear up' at depth.

This means you have to be somewhat self aware. It could be a matter of just ascending a bit up the slope... Narc'd at 110', suddenly head clears and all is well at 70'-80'.

So the question is, can you hold yourself together well enough to not just throw a thumb or not ok at your buddy and bolt. Instead to give the turn signal and point up slope (you don't need to come back the boundary line, there is a whole lot of 60-70' directly up slope from the logs... I know that most of the people who are going to respond here can, but this post isn't for you, its for the very new divers, just starting to ease their way down the boundary line at cove 2, or down the slope at mukilteo.

I start getting narc'd on air at ~68' with incredible reliability. It is subtle but its there... Gear feels a bit more comfortable, I feel a bit warmer, etc... People who say they have never been narc'd or don't get narc'd till 130' are full of shit and chest beating. We ALL get narc'd, just not everyone is aware of it.

I would prefer a buddy who tells me 'yah, i felt a bit narc'y on that dive' (at 100' on nitrox or air) to one that says "nah, didn't feel a thing, I was stone cold sober".

I would prefer a buddy who heads it off at the pass. Getting spooky underwater, let me know... We'll ease the dive plan shallower no problem.

[ljjames]

Dusty, i agree. The old "Advanced class" via NAUI was "Openwater 2" it had a max depth of 80', it did not certify you to 100 or 130'. I think that is a much safer 'limit' for the divers it was designed for. I was absolutely furious when the agencies increased the depth limit for the second level class.

I don't believe it is the instructors fault with regards to "why do they take students to X, Y or Z", I think it is the agencies fault for changing the limits and essentially telling the Instructors AND Students its "OK". How is an instructor supposed to explain "well, i know that the agency says you can go to 100 or 130', but I don't think that is correct and i am only going to take you to 80" The student is gonna be all confused, because they, quite simply don't know any better, and may think you are being over conservative or chicken shit, and go find an instructor that WILL take them to the "class limits". Organized the way it is, it actually almost encourages noobs to dive to 100'+. "you are good enough at 12 dives to go to 100' cause its EASY! It's "Second Level!".

Huge props to the instructors who buck the trend and make sure the students have the fundamental skills necessary to do the dive (like buoyancy control).

While I was typing this there were several other posts so this may be redundundunt

IMHO the rush to AOW is one of the culprits. Far to many new divers want to rush into AOW so they can go deeper and the other things that it is supposed to qualify you for. Notice I said qualify and not train you because that is what most classes are for. Just to get that magic AOW card. I remember people telling me early on that AOW is easy. No classes no skills to learn just do 5 dives and your good! REALLY??? This is what gets people killed.

I am not pointing at anyone. Just saying this is the attitude I saw when I was new and certainly not qualified to to be what I feel is an AOW level diver. I remember one instructor that insisted that you do the advanced buoyancy skills as part of your (optional's) for AOW cert and thinking wow I won't do that class. Now I realize she was on the right track and it should be one of the mandatory skills BEFORE deep dive or boat dive. My feeling is that I wouldn't call some one with 50 dives an experienced diver simply because they survived that many dives. Buoyancy is ,IMHO,THE single most important skill to get you to the next level and the one most people have the most trouble learning. Some can get this down much faster than others but no one should feel they are ready for AOW until this is second nature. You can't stop, think, act if you can't control you buoyancy.

[Norris]

People who say they have never been narc'd or don't get narc'd till 130' are full of shit and chest beating. We ALL get narc'd, just not everyone is aware of it.

So if someone is not aware of it, how would they be defined as "chest beating"? In all honestly I didnt "feel" my first narc until I was well past 100' and only on a direct descent down a bouy line to 125'. I haden't felt narc'd following a slope to depth. I certainly am not saying that I wasn't narc'd I am saying that up till that dive I never felt anxious, nervous, or boggled. So it seems to me that you cannot lump everyone into your rant. I believe that people handle and deal with not feeling "quite right" differently. So should you have asked me on a 100' dive about feeling narc'd I would have most likely said, "nah all was well."

So about the narcosis I think that YMMV,

[lamont]

I can think of a lot of answers to the original question, but I think there's a more important piece of prevention that comes first. Get comfortable. Learn how to be neutrally buoyant and get comfortable and know how to move yourself around in the water. If you are zen and comfortable in the water you won't be building up CO2 and you'll have bandwidth to spare and if you do wind up a little stressed you can efficiently move upslope and ascend till your head clears up without adding additional CO2 to the problem. If you increase your cardiovascular fitness you will also reduce your CO2 retention and increase your vCO2 which makes you safer. Being warm also helps, so get appropriate thermal protection.

We did a scooter dive to the logs last night to 110 on nitrox and I had a nice zen "i'm not even narc'd" dive (although i slept really well last night...) and even at those depths i've got bandwidth to spare. I know I can deal with emergencies, I know to relax, I know how to chill out my breathing, even without the scooters i can kick efficiently and i know i could exit the dive swimming a non-responsive buddy upslope from there without overtaxing myself. I've come a long way from being a knuckle-dragging (heh, literally bouncing off the bottom) single tank (al80), overweighted flutter kicking diver going to the I-beams with about 7 dives under my belt. The difference is night and day...

[ljjames]

Then i did not write this 'rant' for you, so feel free to disregard.

If one person reads it and says "hmm... sounds familiar" and turns a dive, just once, then maybe it was worth the time I spent trying to put some thoughts down in writing that i thought might be helpful.

as norris said, YMMV, Signing out from this thread now.

People who say they have never been narc'd or don't get narc'd till 130' are full of shit and chest beating. We ALL get narc'd, just not everyone is aware of it.

So if someone is not aware of it, how would they be defined as "chest beating"? In all honestly I didnt "feel" my first narc until I was well past 100' and only on a direct descent down a bouy line to 125'. I haden't felt narc'd following a slope to depth. I certainly am not saying that I wasn't narc'd I am saying that up till that dive I never felt anxious, nervous, or boggled. So it seems to me that you cannot lump everyone into your rant. I believe that people handle and deal with not feeling "quite right" differently. So should you have asked me on a 100' dive about feeling narc'd I would have most likely said, "nah all was well."

So about the narcosis I think that YMMV,

[Norris]

Then i did not write this 'rant' for you, so feel free to disregard.

If one person reads it and says "hmm... sounds familiar" and turns a dive, just once, then maybe it was worth the time I spent trying to put some thoughts down in writing that i thought might be helpful.

People who say they have never been narc'd or don't get narc'd till 130' are full of shit and chest beating. We ALL get narc'd, just not everyone is aware of it.

So if someone is not aware of it, how would they be defined as "chest beating"? In all honestly I didnt "feel" my first narc until I was well past 100' and only on a direct descent down a bouy line to 125'. I haden't felt narc'd following a slope to depth. I certainly am not saying that I wasn't narc'd I am saying that up till that dive I never felt anxious, nervous, or boggled. So it seems to me that you cannot lump everyone into your rant. I believe that people handle and deal with not feeling "quite right" differently. So should you have asked me on a 100' dive about feeling narc'd I would have most likely said, "nah all was well."

So about the narcosis I think that YMMV,

Dont get me wrong I totally agree with you, I just don't want newer divers constantly wondering why they are not feeling narc'd or different when at or near 100fsw when in all reality they absolutely SHOULD BE, according to what you stated.

[CaptnJack]

This diver's buddy had to make that decision, in deciding not to follow him up at the rate he was going. I remember, back a number of years ago, when I went out to do a skills dive with Captn Jack. My buoyancy stank, and I corked from 20 feet or so. Richard posted a question, on ScubaBoard IIRC, about what one should do when one's buddy corked. It embarrassed me at the time, but it's a real question, and this diver had to face it . . . and will forever have to ask herself what would have happened if she had chosen differently. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, and maybe they both would be.
.

5+ years later I still don't have a really good concise pithy "internet" answer to the question of sticking with a rapidly ascending/corking buddy, staying put, or ascending at a normal rate. I can't even put my finger on all the factors it depends on.

[Joshua Smith]

This diver's buddy had to make that decision, in deciding not to follow him up at the rate he was going. I remember, back a number of years ago, when I went out to do a skills dive with Captn Jack. My buoyancy stank, and I corked from 20 feet or so. Richard posted a question, on ScubaBoard IIRC, about what one should do when one's buddy corked. It embarrassed me at the time, but it's a real question, and this diver had to face it . . . and will forever have to ask herself what would have happened if she had chosen differently. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, and maybe they both would be.
.

5+ years later I still don't have a really good concise pithy "internet" answer to the question of sticking with a rapidly ascending/corking buddy, staying put, or ascending at a normal rate. I can't even put my finger on all the factors it depends on.

Really? I have ascended a few feet to grab a diver who was starting to cork. He was freaked out and disoriented. And i knew I stood a good chance of getting him back under control. But a real, full on cork? Sorry, but I'm going to wave good bye and hope the corker comes out ok.

[spatman]

This diver's buddy had to make that decision, in deciding not to follow him up at the rate he was going. I remember, back a number of years ago, when I went out to do a skills dive with Captn Jack. My buoyancy stank, and I corked from 20 feet or so. Richard posted a question, on ScubaBoard IIRC, about what one should do when one's buddy corked. It embarrassed me at the time, but it's a real question, and this diver had to face it . . . and will forever have to ask herself what would have happened if she had chosen differently. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, and maybe they both would be.
.

5+ years later I still don't have a really good concise pithy "internet" answer to the question of sticking with a rapidly ascending/corking buddy, staying put, or ascending at a normal rate. I can't even put my finger on all the factors it depends on.

Really? I have ascended a few feet to grab a diver who was starting to cork. He was freaked out and disoriented. And i knew I stood a good chance of getting him back under control. But a real, full on cork? Sorry, but I'm going to wave good bye and hope the corker comes out ok.

For me, it would depend on the depth, but generally, if the corking diver can't regain control within the first 20-30' of ascending, I would stop trying to help and keep myself from getting hurt.

[Norris]

This diver's buddy had to make that decision, in deciding not to follow him up at the rate he was going. I remember, back a number of years ago, when I went out to do a skills dive with Captn Jack. My buoyancy stank, and I corked from 20 feet or so. Richard posted a question, on ScubaBoard IIRC, about what one should do when one's buddy corked. It embarrassed me at the time, but it's a real question, and this diver had to face it . . . and will forever have to ask herself what would have happened if she had chosen differently. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, and maybe they both would be.
.

5+ years later I still don't have a really good concise pithy "internet" answer to the question of sticking with a rapidly ascending/corking buddy, staying put, or ascending at a normal rate. I can't even put my finger on all the factors it depends on.

Really? I have ascended a few feet to grab a diver who was starting to cork. He was freaked out and disoriented. And i knew I stood a good chance of getting him back under control. But a real, full on cork? Sorry, but I'm going to wave good bye and hope the corker comes out ok.

For me, it would depend on the depth, but generally, if the corking diver can't regain control within the first 20-30' of ascending, I would stop trying to help and keep myself from getting hurt.

+1

[Grateful Diver]

This diver's buddy had to make that decision, in deciding not to follow him up at the rate he was going. I remember, back a number of years ago, when I went out to do a skills dive with Captn Jack. My buoyancy stank, and I corked from 20 feet or so. Richard posted a question, on ScubaBoard IIRC, about what one should do when one's buddy corked. It embarrassed me at the time, but it's a real question, and this diver had to face it . . . and will forever have to ask herself what would have happened if she had chosen differently. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, and maybe they both would be.
.

5+ years later I still don't have a really good concise pithy "internet" answer to the question of sticking with a rapidly ascending/corking buddy, staying put, or ascending at a normal rate. I can't even put my finger on all the factors it depends on.

Really? I have ascended a few feet to grab a diver who was starting to cork. He was freaked out and disoriented. And i knew I stood a good chance of getting him back under control. But a real, full on cork? Sorry, but I'm going to wave good bye and hope the corker comes out ok.

Depends on circumstances. I've sometimes reached up and snagged a D-ring, flaring out and "riding" the corker to the surface to slow them down. If we're shallow enough, there's not much risk to me, and it helps give them more time to take a breath ... the biggest danger in all of this is the instinct to hold one's breath in a stressful moment. Also, particularly with newer divers, I think seeing someone holding onto you has a calming effect.

For deeper dives, I'll make an honest attempt to reach the diver and decide what to do once I've made contact. In some cases, this means grabbing their inflator hose and dumping air to arrest their ascent. Or I might just grab a foot, dump my own air, invert and swim back down ... either arresting the ascent or slowing it down considerably. In a couple cases I decided that intervention on my part was likely to have a worse outcome than not making the attempt ... at which point I let them go, making a slower ascent and joining them at the surface. Fortunately, none of these latter situations resulted in damage to either myself or the corker ... people are often more resilient than you might think.

On a really deep or aggressive dive, I think your options are more limited ... you really can't afford to chase them. I once had to make a decision on a Day Island Wall Dive to just watch my buddy go. I couldn't even make a controlled ascent, due to strong currents that were trying to push us away from the wall. I had to slowly work my way up the bottom, and ascend as soon as I got shallow enough to be out of the strong current. Fortunately, my buddy was by then swimming toward the entrance and all was fine. But that was dumb luck, which it's never a good idea to factor into the dive plan ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Joshua Smith]

Sure, reasonable answers. Like so many things, the real answer is "it depends."

[fnerg]

I know one issue I faced early on was gas consumption at depth, and knowing about what I could expect at what depth.

I got my OW in Hawaii, immediately did two drysuit dives in Iceland, then, excited by the knowledge that it was POSSIBLE to dive in waters like this, did my AOW here.

The AOW went fine, but one of my next dives was at Redondo, where the first stop was the boat at 80 feet. I had an AL80, and got a bit panicked at how fast the SPG was dropping at that depth.(probably less than 15 dives at that point, small tank, my SAC was probably through the roof) My buddies were perfectly fine about calling the dive at that point, but some sort of of SAC calculation exercise probably would have eased that worry.

[SeanKylgod]

Had the same question myself. Once you ascend, you don't just sink like that.

Much as I hate random speculation: if a diver were to experience an arterial gas embolism during a rapid ascent, they might aspirate enough water to become negatively buoyant. Maybe. Or maybe something else happened. Or not.

This was also my thought, however as I read "speculation starts fires" I wasn't going to chime in and light yet another match. Glad you took the liberty to do so

[LCF]

I think what you do when someone corks depends on a lot of things -- how nitrogen loaded YOU are, how deep you are, and what your relationship to the corker is. Last spring, I was on a boat dive with students who had just finished their OW class. We were on Zee's Reef, I think, when the student I was diving with (remember, she's a certified diver, but very new) lost buoyancy control in her dry suit and began to cork from 50 feet. I caught her and dumped her BC, but she already had enough gas expansion in the suit that we were headed up. I dumped everything I could and hung onto her -- she wasn't a stranger or even a friend, she was someone I felt RESPONSIBLE for, so I took the risk of getting hurt myself (which was low, really, as long as I continued to breathe) because it was my job. But you have to run a lot of stuff through your head very fast in a situation like that, because there is very little time to do anything effective at all.

Brian, I think the insight about "I don't lead dives" is the big one for us as an instructor/DM pair. You can't control people if they are following you.

And finally, the "anyone can call a dive at any time, for any reason" thing is really important. I can remember calling a dive in Jackson Blue cave. We had flown all the way to Florida to go cave diving, and only had a few days. I was leading the dive, and lost a fin in the entry -- we got it back on and secured, and proceeded. Flow was high and I was working hard, and I made it down through this slot you have to negotiate, where the depth drops from 50 feet to about 90, and at the bottom, I realized I just didn't feel good. I was breathing hard and looking ahead of me, not with enthusiasm and excitement, but with an awful feeling of, "God, I don't want to do this . . . " So I thumbed the dive. If I had continued, as narced (which I didn't realize) and CO2 loaded (which I did) as I was, the next stressor could have been the one that rendered me irrational.

There is ALWAYS another day to dive, as long as you get home today.

[BDub]

..."anyone can call a dive at any time for any reason with no repercussions"...

We need to be aware of what's going on between our ears and in our heart as much or more than what is going on with our equipment. An emergency that might be handled relatively easily in a good frame of mind may turn into a deadly panic when our frame of mind is not so good.

This a great point, Tom.

To add to that, this shouldn't apply to just "fun" dives. This should apply to ALL dives, including class dives.

I've heard stories of students continuing dives, when they otherwise wouldn't/shouldn't, because "they were in class". While a class should push your comfort level a bit, when that voice is telling you "enough" (whether it's frustration, fear, growing anxiety, etc), you have an obligation to yourself, your fellow students and your instructor to thumb the dive.

The learning and fun has stopped anyway, there's no reason to continue on.

[SeanKylgod]

Lynne,

Just out of curiosity, if it doesn't reveal proprietary information, how will you be modifying the procedures you use in your class?

When an AOW class only has 4 or 5 dives and 4 or 5 missions or goals to accomplish it doesn't leave a lot of time for actual training. It seems to me that if you only have one dive dedicated to being the deep dive that it doesn't do a lot in the way of instruction. I think we would be far better served to spend the lecture time talking about deep stops, and some basic principles, and then practice the in water skills necessary to execute the theory.

I think a class like that could be much better served by working on accents, buoyancy, addressing some of the skills from OW, but off the bottom while maintaining some kind of depth control, and then simulate accents from shallow depths. Make an ascent on a couple dives from 40 fsw with stops at 20, 15, and 10 feet for a minute each, and do it on a line, and in blue water.

Once those accent skills have been simulated and the instructor is confident in the divers ability to make a safe accent than you can do a 'checkout' dive to 80 or 100 fsw so that the instructor can evaluate the divers mindset.

I think in general blue water accents or accents up a line on a lift bag or smb aren't practiced enough. Those skills can really help make people more comfortable.


EDIT: Added Personal History:
I did my AOW "deep dive" in a quarry in Ohio. There was a platform at 20 feet, and they ran a line down to the bottom of the quarry at 75 feet or so. The instructor put 8 students on the platform and had a DM babysit them, while the instructor took two students at a time to 75 ffw, they turn around and came right back, and the instructor took the next two. This didn't teach me better buoyancy, it didn't teach me much at all,

I think it's interesting that we associate AOW with being certified to 100 fsw, and really the only difference between 30 fsw and 100 fsw is gas consumption and the accent, and most AOW classes lack adequate gas planning, and only dedicate one dive to the accent.

And for the record I have no idea what happened in C2, and am not commenting on recent events. I'm simply responding to Lynnes' comment.

Austin

I think you covered a lot of great points in this, Austin. I was never taught deep stops in my aow classes.. all they did was assess how I felt while narc'd. I'll be honest in saying that i had gone to 90 + feet multiple times before ever taking my aow classes but only because I was comfortable doing so and worked my way up to it over 60 dives. I read about deep stops, emergency deco procedures and obviously absorbed the gas consumption rate info from my ow classes and from what I read from three different organizations' aow or equivalent books (i wasn't just taking one companies word on it) and I feel the things that were covered in my aow class were essentially irrelevant for the most part. I did a deep stop on my deep dive day and my instructor had no idea what I was doing.. "why did we stop at 55 feet?"

"... Well, we made it to 110..."

They were also inquisitive about why I slowed my ascent rate from 60 to 30 fsw/m once we passed 60 feet.

I thought most of this was general recreational knowledge..

The things I had benefited most from were things I felt uncomfortable doing in a pool/under 20 fsw. Reverting back to what Bob had said, the only way to be proficient is to practice.

What was the point of spending $200 on my aow class? Like Mr. Owl would say, "the world may never know".


I understand that psychologically, many react differently at depth and under narcosis and they should be monitored by a experienced diver.. don't the effects vary (if felt at all?) Is my aow instructor going to be there on EVERY dive to watch over me? No.
Was I taught anything to deal with varying effects of depth? Nope.

Am I well versed enough as a diver to analyze my own skills, teach myself things in a controlled manner and practice with my primary dive buddy? I can tell yoy that my instructors didn't give me the skills I have now as a recreational diver by the 8 times they were in the water with me.

Fwiw, before I get barraged with opinions;I know tech will be entirely different.

[scubnewb]

OK what does detuned mean... oh and I was thinking about all of this yesterday and i was thinking to myself... well in a deepwater scnerio, wouldnt it be possible to shut the valve to slow or stop the flow all together so you have less stress and pressure to get to the top. I think that path of thinking came from watching the movie Sanctum the otherday and thinking about when the son takes the pony bottle and just takes the breathes off it he needs with no regulator at the end of the movie. Of course i thought well it is just a movie, but that doesnt mean its not possible. I dont dive deeper then 60ft unless i happen to wonder over the 60 mark and not notice then I turn right around... so at this point I would probably just run with a ascent as trained. But it is something that I was thinking about and wondering about.

I waited to see if anyone was going to post about an issue that a few folks commented on in the other thread... the free flowing reg while deep and how that is scary.

I'm probably going to take a few face shots on this, but I've took em before. Let me start by saying, I am not a Scuba Instructor, I don't play one on TV, nor am I a dive professional in any way.... so I am not trying to advocate any particular way to do things over another. Just posting what has happened to me in the past and what I did to fix the problem.

First thing and I'll get it out right now is myself and the folks I dive with here do not exactly subscribe to the "stick close to your buddy" mentality. I know, it goes against what I was trained to do, but hunting, being on a scooter, shooting video, insert whatever excuse you want, we get seperated and are all ok with that. It's a conscious decision we make.

IMO, the first part of dealing with a free flowing reg is KNOW YOUR GEAR. If you do not have the ability to close your eyes or be blindfolded and still be able to touch EVERY piece of your gear, why not??? In a stressful situation, you need to be able to react without having to see everything, especially considering with a freeflow reg there is a damn good chance your vision is going to be filled with bubbles.

Gonna sidetrack for a second, and again, this is a personal belief... the ONLY way I have found to wear your backup reg, in a manner that reduces stress during a gas emergency is bungeed around the neck. I have had 2 free flows of my gear at over 100 feet and 1 with my buddy. BY FAR the most stressful was with my buddy. He was fairly new to the deeper wrecks and came swimming over to me with bubbles everywhere at 125 feet. I had no idea where the hell they were coming from, because it was from his backup and he had it "tucked" into his right side cumberbund. Needless t say, after that we had a discussion about where we were going to wear our gear... he now has his backup reg around his neck. If it free flows, he will know it right away. Not trying to say you have to do it that way... but it works for me.

Both of my free flows were away from my buddy and both ended up being pressure/depth related. One was on my primary and the other with my back up. In both cases, the first thing I did was check to make sure they were detuned all the way, my back up stays that way so that is just a double check. In both cases, next step was to slap the reg mouthpiece down into the palm of my hand. I have seen that work ion the past at shallower depths. This did nothing.
Reg goes back in the mouth. I reach back with my right arm and start to close my first stage valve. When I get it almost closed but still have free flow, I ensure I get that good breath and go ahead and close the valve. The air will escape from the free flow reg and stop.

As I am exhaling, it is also time to swim up a bit. Just before its time to inhale, valve comes back on. Inhale, close valve, continue swimming up, exhale, open valve, repeat. In both my free flowing cases, the reg stopped after I ascended about 20-30 feet. If not, I would continue all the way to the surface. I have not had to do it yet, but I have no doubts about my ability to perform this during the 3 minute safety stop.

Again, I am not saying this is the right way on the "by the book" way to handle a free flow. It was Chads way of handling things when I had bubbles everywhere and said "aw shit"

[Jeff Pack]

Theres technique called air sipping.

I've never mastered it though, but I've seen it done

[RoxnDox]

There is ALWAYS another day to dive, as long as you get home today.

Adding this to sig line. It sums up an awful lot...

As one of those new divers, I appreciate the tales and tidbits and hard-won bits of knowledge shred by those of you who've been doing this for a long time... I've done my share of "What If", more since this weekend's tragic events, but more knowledge is always better. Buoyancy control will continue to be my most-important skill to continue improvement on.

Jim

[airsix]

Calling dives:
I came up with a simple personal litmus test for calling dives. At any time I simply ask myself "Am I prepared at this moment to rescue this team if something goes sideways?" It's a simple pass/fail test. If I can't answer "yes" then I'm a liability and I owe it to the team to get squared away or get out of the water.

Handling uncontrolled ascents:
The discussions about what to do when a diver starts to cork have been good but I'd like to add some words about prevention. All divers should practice doing difficult things under controlled conditions in shallow water. If we all did this there would be less corking. Corking happens when you are in a situation more complex than you are used to dealing with. I'm not the greatest diver in the world, but there are stresses I can handle now without corking which would have caused corking in the past if it weren't for shallow-water problem-solving practice.

Self rescue:
See my comment about calling dives. And Lynne's comment about duty to her buddy. And Nwbrewer's comment about how he dives. A self-rescue plan is a pretty low-quality insurance policy. Diving with someone who reciprocates your firm commitment to their safety is a much more reliable approach. If I dive like the other person's life depends on me, and they reciprocate; I don't have much to worry about and neither do they.

Ben

[pensacoladiver]

OK what does detuned mean... oh and I was thinking about all of this yesterday and i was thinking to myself... well in a deepwater scnerio, wouldnt it be possible to shut the valve to slow or stop the flow all together so you have less stress and pressure to get to the top. I think that path of thinking came from watching the movie Sanctum the otherday and thinking about when the son takes the pony bottle and just takes the breathes off it he needs with no regulator at the end of the movie. Of course i thought well it is just a movie, but that doesnt mean its not possible. I dont dive deeper then 60ft unless i happen to wonder over the 60 mark and not notice then I turn right around... so at this point I would probably just run with a ascent as trained. But it is something that I was thinking about and wondering about.

Many 2nd stage regs have a knob on the side that allows you to somewhat control the air flow out of the reg. By detuning it, I turned the knob to the lowest flow point. The result is, you will feel the reg is harder to breathe. I usually adjust my primary reg a few times each dive depending on my workload.

the only reason I would shut off the valve is to stop the freeflow. I would not shut it off and leave it shut off. That guarntees you will not have any air available. Even with a free flowing reg, you still have air available to breathe until the tank runs dry.

Again, I would like to say that my experience was about when I was not with my buddy. There are some exceptionally excellent divers on here who are very passionate about always being with their buddy or the team. Given the choice, 10 times out of 10 I would take my buddy helping me over doing things by myself. But, like I said, many times we simply end up seperated or going solo in the first place... like when we have 3 on the boat and need a live boat operator as we are diving the reef. It's uaually 2 up one down scenario.