Side Mount Deco Bottles

[doublesunder]

Side Mounting stage and deco bottles, whats the best system? Experience on what works and what doesnt?

[CaptnJack]

Side Mounting stage and deco bottles, whats the best system? Experience on what works and what doesnt?

Do you have backmount steel doubles as shown in your avatar?

[doublesunder]

Yes, both lp 108's and hp 120's.

[sea2summit]

1) Get about a 8" bungee through one of the holes on your BP and a dog clip on the other end.
2) Clip the bottom of your deco bottle to a double-D ring on the back of your crotch strap or a butt plate. (may need to adjust location of lower clip on your bottle for fit/comfort)
3) Stick the deco valve under your arm pit, reach around for the hanging bungee and pull it foward to the d-ring on your chest.
4) dive away.

Probably not going to be a real good time with 108s.

[CaptnJack]

1) Get about a 8" bungee through one of the holes on your BP and a dog clip on the other end.
2) Clip the bottom of your deco bottle to a double-D ring on the back of your crotch strap or a butt plate. (may need to adjust location of lower clip on your bottle for fit/comfort)
3) Stick the deco valve under your arm pit, reach around for the hanging bungee and pull it foward to the d-ring on your chest.
4) dive away.

Probably not going to be a real good time with 108s.

This is what I was imaging as well.

Why are you thinking of side mounting them vs normal stage straps?

[doublesunder]

1) Get about a 8" bungee through one of the holes on your BP and a dog clip on the other end.
2) Clip the bottom of your deco bottle to a double-D ring on the back of your crotch strap or a butt plate. (may need to adjust location of lower clip on your bottle for fit/comfort)
3) Stick the deco valve under your arm pit, reach around for the hanging bungee and pull it foward to the d-ring on your chest.
4) dive away.

Probably not going to be a real good time with 108s.

Sounds easy enough, are you clipping in at all into the upper stage clip? Pics that I have seen show upper clip rotated up and semi fixed, and then bungee is run through upper clip.

[kitsapdiver]

You may want to PM raptor. He has his deco bottles set up as "pseudo sidemount". He offsets the lower bolt-snap from the upper bolt-snap, and uses some bungee to keep the deco bottles in place, but he still clips them to a left hip D-Ring, and a chest D-Ring. Although I don't understand how, he has no problems getting to his SPG or working with two bottles, which amazes me.

I think Randy Williams who is a Tech Instructor in Tacoma has been playing around with using a side mount setup for Deco bottles.

I would think a true SM configuration is risky business when you go to verify that you are breathing from the right bottle. But, I'm speaking with absolutely no experience as I have never been in a side mount configuration. Is it possible to look down and see the markings on the bottle? Is it easy for your team to verify that you're breathing from the right bottle on a deco switch?

[BDub]

I have no experience with sm either, except for pointing and laughing at CaptnJack.

One issue that comes to mind that you may want to consider, however, is your teammates' ability to quickly clip off your bottle should they need it. In many situations you can get by without passing it and it's just a PITA gas share.

However, if you're doing deco on the trigger, or you need to trigger (or kick hard, for that matter) to stay on the upline due to current, that's going to get very difficult.

This may be entirely possible and I'm not saying it can't be done. What I'm envisioning is getting passed a bottle that doesn't have a nose clip that I need to get clipped off quickly.

[CaptnJack]

Sounds easy enough, are you clipping in at all into the upper stage clip? Pics that I have seen show upper clip rotated up and semi fixed, and then bungee is run through upper clip.

That would be the "dive-rite" strategy. I have no idea why they use the stage strap clips at all honestly. You can just put the neck bungies around the valve. Or put a loop of cord on the neck with a small boltsnap and then clip that into the neck bungie on the uppermost plate hole. It might be hard to reach the neck bungies absent some sort of keeper cord (which DR is big on).

Curious why you want to do this though? With a normal stage strap 40s and 80s barely hang below your body plane anyway. And with a long hose in backmount you probably don't want to put a sidemount stage on the right side. So what problem are you trying to solve? Maybe there's another way.

[sea2summit]

Sounds easy enough, are you clipping in at all into the upper stage clip? Pics that I have seen show upper clip rotated up and semi fixed, and then bungee is run through upper clip.

I've seen it done, I wouldn't. Just makes it harder to get in and out of. For me, my left tank has a reg comming off the top of my reg that gets routed over my shoulder for my bungeed reg and a long hose to hand off so that tank is a bit of a pill to hand off. Right bottle just has the bungee around the top and clipped at the bottom. Never had a major problem with handing off either of them, but the left one has only been handed-off in training so YMMV.

[doublesunder]

Looks like it makes a big difference in your stream lining, and is a good way to tuck a couple of 80's in tighter to your body. I agree that the difference is probably marginal on handling and task loading. I also plan on keeping the regular stage strap and just not using the top clip, that way you still have a viable stage to pass if needed.This method also seems to facilitate attaching and removal of stages.

[loanwolf]

Most people put a d ring on the lower half of the shoulder strap positioned between the waist and the chest to hook the top bolt snap to. Then hook the lower bolt snap to the butt plate and use the bungee to pull it up under the arm and stabilize it. I am tall so I can hook the lower bolt snap to my butt plate and the upper one to my waist and the bungee pulls it right up into place.

[doublesunder]

Most people put a d ring on the lower half of the shoulder strap positioned between the waist and the chest to hook the top bolt snap to. Then hook the lower bolt snap to the butt plate and use the bungee to pull it up under the arm and stabilize it. I am tall so I can hook the lower bolt snap to my butt plate and the upper one to my waist and the bungee pulls it right up into place.

sm1.JPG

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

[CaptnJack]

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

Measure down from the top to where you want the valve to ride. Those are pretty far back, so might be hard to read MOD labels or gauges (although I don't see any labeling on those anyway, maybe on the inside). I have my clamps about 16" down from the crown, that's with a 22" back measurement for perspective.

[doublesunder]

Sounds easy enough, are you clipping in at all into the upper stage clip? Pics that I have seen show upper clip rotated up and semi fixed, and then bungee is run through upper clip.

That would be the "dive-rite" strategy. I have no idea why they use the stage strap clips at all honestly. You can just put the neck bungies around the valve. Or put a loop of cord on the neck with a small boltsnap and then clip that into the neck bungie on the uppermost plate hole. It might be hard to reach the neck bungies absent some sort of keeper cord (which DR is big on).

Curious why you want to do this though? With a normal stage strap 40s and 80s barely hang below your body plane anyway. And with a long hose in backmount you probably don't want to put a sidemount stage on the right side. So what problem are you trying to solve? Maybe there's another way.

No problem per se, just thinking of ways to improve stage bottle trim. What type of setup are you using? DIY or commercially made ?

[doublesunder]

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

Measure down from the top to where you want the valve to ride. Those are pretty far back, so might be hard to read MOD labels or gauges (although I don't see any labeling on those anyway, maybe on the inside). I have my clamps about 16" down from the crown, that's with a 22" back measurement for perspective.

I have my clamp located about 14" respectively from the crown. I think It would be more suit-ed on myself, to have the valve a little higher and up under the arm. Does the 8" bungee length sound appropriate ?

[loanwolf]

Most people put a d ring on the lower half of the shoulder strap positioned between the waist and the chest to hook the top bolt snap to. Then hook the lower bolt snap to the butt plate and use the bungee to pull it up under the arm and stabilize it. I am tall so I can hook the lower bolt snap to my butt plate and the upper one to my waist and the bungee pulls it right up into place.

sm1.JPG

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

You have to play with them a little to get them to were you want them to rid to fit you the best. Everyone is different.

I do not like to just clip them off with one bolt snap. Bolt snaps can come undone quite easily. I have seen bottles get lost due to only being on with one bolt snap. Redundancy is the name of the game.

The only labels on our bottles are just a small piece of tape saying what it is on top. We run lean mix on left with a yellow regulator on a long hose that is yellow or with yellow hose protectors. And the rich mix on the right with a green regulator on a standard hose that is green or with green hose protectors. The lp whips also have a hose and or hose protectors on them that corresponds to the mix as well. If their is a third mix for really deep dives it is a hypoxic mix we use red or black, "voodoo gas only use in deep water" and it will be doubled up on the left as it is a very lean mix. Buy doing this it keeps trim and balance a lot better in the water and it is very hard to fuck up and grab the wrong regulator verses having multiple bottles on one side and having to trace hoses back to the bottles not to mention trying to figure out what gauge is to what bottle easily.

[CaptnJack]

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

Measure down from the top to where you want the valve to ride. Those are pretty far back, so might be hard to read MOD labels or gauges (although I don't see any labeling on those anyway, maybe on the inside). I have my clamps about 16" down from the crown, that's with a 22" back measurement for perspective.

I have my clamp located about 14" respectively from the crown. I think It would be more suit-ed on myself, to have the valve a little higher and up under the arm. Does the 8" bungee length sound appropriate ?

14" sounds about right. Mine SM bottles ride alot further forward than is popular in this country, almost like regular stages. I'm using a Razor which is a European-look SM harness though. You just happen to have backmount tanks as well.

If coming from a hole on your plate, 8" sounds a bit long to me honestly. You can try it with extra length to be able to move the knot longer/shorter. In fact you may way to intentionally tie the bungie onto the side hole in your plate and leave a big "tail" on the other side of the knot. That way you can have something to grab on the bungie to slip it over the tank neck.

At least with my SM tanks you want a generous post on the valve on opposite side from the knob to hold the loop of neck bungie. So I use regular manifold valves with plugs in them. You'll have to decide how you want to "clock" the valves so that you can reach the knob(s). I would guess lateral in your application. I clock my knobs up, somepeople like them down.

You might check out the Armadillo SM and Razor SM manuals for pictures and examples.
E.g. Figure 16 here will give you an idea of how long to make your own neck bungies:
http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com/armadillo.html

The razor has a very different neck bungie, almost like a regular stage. But maybe you will prefer that. You can see some photos in this document.
http://shop.gosidemount.com/products/58 ... ystem.aspx

In these rigs, giant striding off a boat is a PITA since the only hard connection is at the waist. The "ring bungies" of the Nomad might be another alternative which includes a hard connection at the neck. They are sold in various lengths and could be easily added to a plate. This video illustrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTpC06qL ... e=youtu.be
In this case, the band clamp would be almost at the crown of your tank (since you don't have a buttplate in backmount).

Let us know what you decide and be sure to post some pictures!

[sea2summit]

If coming from a hole on your plate, 8" sounds a bit long to me honestly.

Maybe I need thinner dive undies, I can barely reach the 8"ers.

I ride mine real high, literally the valves are in my arm pits. I find it handy to figure out I can't fit through something before I'm half way in there

[loanwolf]

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

Measure down from the top to where you want the valve to ride. Those are pretty far back, so might be hard to read MOD labels or gauges (although I don't see any labeling on those anyway, maybe on the inside). I have my clamps about 16" down from the crown, that's with a 22" back measurement for perspective.

I have my clamp located about 14" respectively from the crown. I think It would be more suit-ed on myself, to have the valve a little higher and up under the arm. Does the 8" bungee length sound appropriate ?

I find the bottles are much easier to handle if they are not pulled into the arm pit I can easily reach them with either arm. Also I can pull my arms in tight putting the valve against my triceps enabling me to try and get my fat ass small to get though a hatch (not always successful without removing everything) . If they are up too high I cannot get my arms pulled in because the bottle is in the way and it is difficult to reach the valves with the corresponding arm quickly. Keep in mind you do not want the tanks strung tight from point to point. It is hanging from the points and the bungee is holding up the heavy end from sagging. If I reach down and grab the valve I can pull the tank up far enough to see the 1st stage and valve and check things out. This is important to be able to do especially if you are doing really deep tech dives. Blowing a oring is not uncommon at depth when you turn on a tank, even after precharging on the surface. I have had to feather tanks from really deep before and it is not fun if it is not easily accessible.

[doublesunder]

Thanks everyone for all the info, it has all been appreciated. It is nice to get some practical experience and information. Looks like I just need to get into the water and see what needs adjusted. I've put together a preliminary setup and will go foward from there. Thanks again.....

[doublesunder]

It looks like you have moved your hose clamp up considerably, about how many inches from base?

Measure down from the top to where you want the valve to ride. Those are pretty far back, so might be hard to read MOD labels or gauges (although I don't see any labeling on those anyway, maybe on the inside). I have my clamps about 16" down from the crown, that's with a 22" back measurement for perspective.

I have my clamp located about 14" respectively from the crown. I think It would be more suit-ed on myself, to have the valve a little higher and up under the arm. Does the 8" bungee length sound appropriate ?

14" sounds about right. Mine SM bottles ride alot further forward than is popular in this country, almost like regular stages. I'm using a Razor which is a European-look SM harness though. You just happen to have backmount tanks as well.

If coming from a hole on your plate, 8" sounds a bit long to me honestly. You can try it with extra length to be able to move the knot longer/shorter. In fact you may way to intentionally tie the bungie onto the side hole in your plate and leave a big "tail" on the other side of the knot. That way you can have something to grab on the bungie to slip it over the tank neck.

At least with my SM tanks you want a generous post on the valve on opposite side from the knob to hold the loop of neck bungie. So I use regular manifold valves with plugs in them. You'll have to decide how you want to "clock" the valves so that you can reach the knob(s). I would guess lateral in your application. I clock my knobs up, somepeople like them down.

You might check out the Armadillo SM and Razor SM manuals for pictures and examples.
E.g. Figure 16 here will give you an idea of how long to make your own neck bungies:
http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com/armadillo.html

The razor has a very different neck bungie, almost like a regular stage. But maybe you will prefer that. You can see some photos in this document.
http://shop.gosidemount.com/products/58 ... ystem.aspx

In these rigs, giant striding off a boat is a PITA since the only hard connection is at the waist. The "ring bungies" of the Nomad might be another alternative which includes a hard connection at the neck. They are sold in various lengths and could be easily added to a plate. This video illustrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTpC06qL ... e=youtu.be
In this case, the band clamp would be almost at the crown of your tank (since you don't have a buttplate in backmount).

Let us know what you decide and be sure to post some pictures!

Thanks fo going out of your way for this info, I really like the way Dive Rite has the solid attachment on there bungee setup.