Missing Diver off South Bainbridge

[Scubie Doo]

Everyone made the decision? What about babies that are exposed in the womb or my good friend that was introduced to cocaine by his father at age 12. You all are correct, there should be no sympathy for those addicted to drugs. That 12 year old should have stood up to his father. No body knows the circumstances that led to the decision to dive/work while on drugs. Was it selfish, sure. But we all do things that are selfish at some point in our lives. People die everyday from selfish behavior. I just lost a friend to lung cancer. She had two daughters and a husband she left behind. Is it selfish to smoke yourself to death, sure. Is it right to say she deserves no sympathy because it was a choice. The capacity for others to judge so harshly never ceases to amaze me. It doesn't matter what anyone posts in response to this. Someone died (selfish or not) bottom line. To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

[enchantmentdivi]

To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

Ditto.

[spatman]

To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

Ditto.

So you are going to condemn the board and all its members due to the opinions of a few?

[pensacoladiver]

Everyone made the decision? What about babies that are exposed in the womb or my good friend that was introduced to cocaine by his father at age 12. You all are correct, there should be no sympathy for those addicted to drugs. That 12 year old should have stood up to his father. No body knows the circumstances that led to the decision to dive/work while on drugs. Was it selfish, sure. But we all do things that are selfish at some point in our lives. People die everyday from selfish behavior. I just lost a friend to lung cancer. She had two daughters and a husband she left behind. Is it selfish to smoke yourself to death, sure. Is it right to say she deserves no sympathy because it was a choice. The capacity for others to judge so harshly never ceases to amaze me. It doesn't matter what anyone posts in response to this. Someone died (selfish or not) bottom line. To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

I would have to diagree. This board has had much lower lows and for more trivial things than people posting their feelings about illegal drug usage.

Since you want to bring it up, if this divers father introduced him to cocaine at age 12, then I certainly hope he IS reading this and knows what a scumbag he is... and I will agree that his sons death at least in part lies squarely in his hands.

If this young man was introduced to cocaine while in the womb, then I hope his mother reads this post and knows what a scumbag she is... and I will agree that her sons death at least in part lies squarely in her hands.

As far as "sympathy" for this diver, as I have said before, it really does not matter. He is long gone and all the sympathy in the world won't mean anything for him. Even if we choose to believe that this young man who was on the job, diving while high on cocaine was somehow a "victim".

[pensacoladiver]

To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

Ditto.

So you are going to condemn the board and all its members due to the opinions of a few?

In my opinion, which has been wrong many times before and will continue to be wrong in the future, that statement is an attempt to generate a response out of the moderators to either lock or remove this thread.

I have been engaged in some heated topics on this board and have always felt I was able to articulate myself in a way that kept the mods off my back and the thread alive. I am actually concerned about this one. When I said "selfish and self centered" in my previous post, those were actually rewrites of words I wanted to use, but decided against them.

[Joshua Smith]

This isn't going anywhere. Maybe we should all take a deep breath and relax for a minute or two. FWIW, I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intent. Bickering about addiction isn't going to solve anything, though. And it certainly won't bring the dead back to life.

[Norris]

I understand we are putting this to rest, but I just wanted to add my 2psi

Botttom line is someone made a decision to dive while under the influence of a narcotic. The person was old enough to understand the risks, and thus paid the price. I concur that the joking may have been a little insensitive. This was a "person" with "family" and friends.
Cocaine already causes rapid heart rate, anxiety, and all kinds of other things. To add diving on top of that is just insane. It was irresponsible, selfish, and dangerous. I also fail to see the connection with drug abuse being a "disease" and maybe it wasn't this persons fault. Myself, having had "extensive" drug problems in the past stemming from depression and whatever demons I had, the "disease" doesnt happen until prolonged usage where it becomes a physical need and is used to maintain oneself daily. I believe that drug and alcohol abuse are only a SYMPTOM of an underlying problem.

Really? "what about babies that are born with it due to a using mother, or the lady who dies of lung cancer....? Another missed connection in my opinion.

Noone knows what the story was with this person, but one things seems sure. The person's demise was the result of some very bad decisions that killed the diver, and could have resulted in hurting others if he was responsible for a buddy. It is sad but the message is out there, drug usage is dangerous and people die. When I was doing drugs a LOT it was because I didnt want to be alive and was just too much a wimp to put a gun to my head. Thus I chose slow suicide and failed. Thankfully!!!

As for the people that are saying "Oh gosh this "board" is at an all time low, and taking the opinions of a couple people out of a thousand to make their generalization, I say good riddance. Crawl back into your bubble and pretend that everyone thinks exactly the same way you do. You may miss learning a lot of great things out there due to passing judgement from only a small fraction of a group.

[Scubie Doo]

To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

Ditto.

So you are going to condemn the board and all its members due to the opinions of a few?

I stand corrected. I am guilty of painting with a broad brush, just as I pointed out in my previous post.

While I can understand and respect opinions on illegal drug use, especially while diving. My point is, let's not voice those opinions here, under these circumstances.

I know many of the folks on this board personally and we really are a group of compassionate, thoughtful people. I know that the true intent behind some of the posts was not malicious. It just struck a cord with me.

[fishb0y]

As a 'small percentage' of this board, I do not apologize for my opinion, but I guess I will keep it to myself from now on. I guess not everyone is ready for a dose other people's view of reality now and then.

[pensacoladiver]

As a 'small percentage' of this board, I do not apologize for my opinion, but I guess I will keep it to myself from now on. I guess not everyone is ready for a dose other people's view of reality now and then.

I for one appreciate your candor and opinion from your previous post. If we were not able to post our opinions no matter how some may look at them, the board would be along the lines of...

I like your hat, Well thanks, I like your shoes.

[Scubie Doo]

I understand we are putting this to rest, but I just wanted to add my 2psi

Botttom line is someone made a decision to dive while under the influence of a narcotic. The person was old enough to understand the risks, and thus paid the price. I concur that the joking may have been a little insensitive. This was a "person" with "family" and friends.
Cocaine already causes rapid heart rate, anxiety, and all kinds of other things. To add diving on top of that is just insane. It was irresponsible, selfish, and dangerous. I also fail to see the connection with drug abuse being a "disease" and maybe it wasn't this persons fault. Myself, having had "extensive" drug problems in the past stemming from depression and whatever demons I had, the "disease" doesnt happen until prolonged usage where it becomes a physical need and is used to maintain oneself daily. I believe that drug and alcohol abuse are only a SYMPTOM of an underlying problem.

Really? "what about babies that are born with it due to a using mother, or the lady who dies of lung cancer....? Another missed connection in my opinion.

Noone knows what the story was with this person, but one things seems sure. The person's demise was the result of some very bad decisions that killed the diver, and could have resulted in hurting others if he was responsible for a buddy. It is sad but the message is out there, drug usage is dangerous and people die. When I was doing drugs a LOT it was because I didnt want to be alive and was just too much a wimp to put a gun to my head. Thus I chose slow suicide and failed. Thankfully!!!

As for the people that are saying "Oh gosh this "board" is at an all time low, and taking the opinions of a couple people out of a thousand to make their generalization, I say good riddance. Crawl back into your bubble and pretend that everyone thinks exactly the same way you do. You may miss learning a lot of great things out there due to passing judgement from only a small fraction of a group.

Well said Norris and thanks for the post.

[lamont]

Am I the only one not entirely shocked that a 24 year old kid did something stupid and selfish? And its also not really any worse than people who dive legally intoxicated on alcohol on vacation. Drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, are a bad mix with diving. And if anyone on this thread is condemning him for what he did, while they like to hop out of the water and go light up a cigarette I wouldn't be terribly impressed -- same goes for eating half a pizza, given all the accidents we've had recently involving middle aged guys and heart attacks.

[spatman]

As a 'small percentage' of this board, I do not apologize for my opinion, but I guess I will keep it to myself from now on. I guess not everyone is ready for a dose other people's view of reality now and then.

Like pensaChad mentioned, opinions make for good and often informative discussions. It would be a shame if we edited ourselves because others disagreed.

[dwashbur]

To say that there is no sympathy, it was a choice, take this as a warning, this affects my taxes, breaks my heart and brings this board to a new low.

Ditto.

So you are going to condemn the board and all its members due to the opinions of a few?

I stand corrected. I am guilty of painting with a broad brush, just as I pointed out in my previous post.

While I can understand and respect opinions on illegal drug use, especially while diving. My point is, let's not voice those opinions here, under these circumstances.

I know many of the folks on this board personally and we really are a group of compassionate, thoughtful people. I know that the true intent behind some of the posts was not malicious. It just struck a cord with me.

That's "struck a chord."

Regards,
Sir Nitpick

[Dive Monkey]

Am I the only one not entirely shocked that a 24 year old kid did something stupid and selfish? And its also not really any worse than people who dive legally intoxicated on alcohol on vacation. Drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, are a bad mix with diving. And if anyone on this thread is condemning him for what he did, while they like to hop out of the water and go light up a cigarette I wouldn't be terribly impressed -- same goes for eating half a pizza, given all the accidents we've had recently involving middle aged guys and heart attacks.

+1
He was a young man that was doing something foolish. I think there are a lot of us on here that if given a nickel for all the foolish things we did as kids, we would have a really big buckets of nickels. The sad thing is he will never get to be an old man and talk about all the dumb shit he did as a kid.

[pensacoladiver]

Sir Nitpick

Wow, that's for sure.

[BASSMAN]

Here's my comment...

[Dusty2]

Well I held out this long but I feel very strongly about drug and alcohol use. with good reason

We as civilized people try to justify everything away and get offended when others don't. I am sorry for this person because he has caused pain and sorrow to others by his actions but will I excuse him because he was strung out on drugs? Never! I have lost friends and family due to substance abuse and when I hear things like he/she didn't want to be an addict or alcoholic it makes me angry. The pain and anguish these people cause lives on long after they are gone. And our tendency to say "It wasn't his or her fault" because they were drunk or strung out and didn't know what they were doing is a very real part of the problem.

Every one not born an addict "Had" a choice but they felt they were better than every one else. I can do this and quit whenever I want to, The drugs won't get me. Unless someone tied you down and shot you up repeatedly you had a choice. We are all to blame because we are too tolerant. Is it a disease??? yes and no. It is mental illness but you don't become an addict without making that choice to try to beat the odds. We pay billions out of our taxes every year trying to prevent drug abuse both by trying to prevent the drugs from being available and in treating those who are lost to this plague. Having gone thru hell with family members and friends only to ultimately lose them I have realized that being tolerant and forgiving is the wrong thing to do.

Just my 2 psi but

[lamont]

And again in the past 10 years, how many divers around here died where cocaine has been involved, and how many were CVAs that implicated high carb, high fat diets and sedentary lifestyles?

[CaptnJack]

I live in Kitsap and honestly I wouldn't trust the local coroner, he's an elected official who may or may not have any medical skills whatsoever. Even if cocaine were found in this young man's body (vs. a lab sample mixup or who knows what), the newpaper accounts don't say if it was enough to actually impair him at the time. Illicit drug analysis is so sensitive nowadays that the cocaine could easily have been a residue from months ago and he wasn't actually impaired by it at the time of his death. In any case, a positive cocaine detection in of itself is not a cause of death. I'm not real happy to see people calling him an addict who 'got what he deserved'.

I always suspected that he had some sort of medical issue in the water which led to his surfacing and shouting for help. Without knowing what that issue actually was, its hard to know if narcotics had any involvement or relationship.

[Joshua Smith]

I live in Kitsap and honestly I wouldn't trust the local coroner, he's an elected official who may or may not have any medical skills whatsoever. Even if cocaine were found in this young man's body (vs. a lab sample mixup or who knows what), the newpaper accounts don't say if it was enough to actually impair him at the time. Illicit drug analysis is so sensitive nowadays that the cocaine could easily have been a residue from months ago and he wasn't actually impaired by it at the time of his death. In any case, a positive cocaine detection in of itself is not a cause of death. I'm not real happy to see people calling him an addict who 'got what he deserved'.

I always suspected that he had some sort of medical issue in the water which led to his surfacing and shouting for help. Without knowing what that issue actually was, its hard to know if narcotics had any involvement or relationship.

FWIW,the Sherrif's office described it as "acute cocaine intoxication."

[Norris]

I live in Kitsap and honestly I wouldn't trust the local coroner, he's an elected official who may or may not have any medical skills whatsoever. Even if cocaine were found in this young man's body (vs. a lab sample mixup or who knows what), the newpaper accounts don't say if it was enough to actually impair him at the time. Illicit drug analysis is so sensitive nowadays that the cocaine could easily have been a residue from months ago and he wasn't actually impaired by it at the time of his death. In any case, a positive cocaine detection in of itself is not a cause of death. I'm not real happy to see people calling him an addict who 'got what he deserved'.

I always suspected that he had some sort of medical issue in the water which led to his surfacing and shouting for help. Without knowing what that issue actually was, its hard to know if narcotics had any involvement or relationship.

We can suspect, speculate, guess, and assume all we want. I think the fact remains that you cannot rule it out of having some impact on the situation. I think I would be more prone to handing any anxiety inducing event a little more collected with the abstinance of a mind altering drug such as cocaine. Cocaine leaves the system in about 36 hours and you can find small traces in up to a week after use.
So its pretty easy to determine the difference between "trace amounts" and "acute cocaine intoxication" with a simple blood test.

I'm not seeing the "he was an addict that got what he deserved" as much as I am seeing "He chose to make a very bad decision and mix cocaine with SCUBA" after this thread blossomed. Regardless I think the "accident" was self induced due to a very poor decision.

[CaptnJack]

FWIW,the Sherrif's office described it as "acute cocaine intoxication."

Well crap, I missed that. Sorry to hear another young man lost his life to addiction.

[renoun]

Seattle Times: State agency cited in death of DNR diver

The Department of Natural Resources faces a fine of up to $172,900 for 15 worker-safety violations discovered during an investigation of the July drowning death of one its divers off Bainbridge Island, the Department of Labor & Industries said Friday.

Just saw the update in the Times, I wonder of the recent posting of the Dive Supervisor position is related? Since the L&I release wasn't very detailed I've requested a copy of the citation from L&I's media contact and will post it if I get a copy.

[LowDrag]

This type of situation is sad to hear about regardless of the how's and why's. My condolences go out to the family. As for other people...I think people need to step back and count to 10 or take a deep breath before typing. Insensitivity or over sensitivity either one will cause people to say things they will regret later. Having come from a heavily moderated forum not too long ago, I know what it is like to not be able to speak your mind but we should still think about what we are saying on either point. Don't get me wrong, I am not busting anyone's proverbial balls just posting some food for thought. Have a great day all.