CF200 vs. FLX Extreme

[kitsapdiver]

So a new drysuit is probably in my near future,and a DUI it will be. Let's keep this thread to the DUI suits at hand (I have the opportunity to get a good deal on a DUI, and that decisions already been made).

However, what I'm curious about is this: I know some people now who have the CF200 and really like it. However, traveling with it seems like it would be a huge pain, a little heavy. I have dove a TLS350 when in FL and really loved the flexibility in that fabric, but am concerned that it won't really hold up in the PNW waters (although it seems like an ideal suit for N. Florida and the Yucatan). So as an alternative I was looking at the FLX Extreme which has the trilam with the polyester vice the nylon. Reading the review on the DUI-online website from Casey McKinley says that it's less flexible than then the TLS350, but is worth the trade off for demanding dives, or cold dives, but how is the Flexibility compare between the CF200 and the FLX EXTREME? What do people think of the 50/50 with the CF200 legs, and polyester trilam upper body?

I may hold off on a purchase until after the DUI Dog days in April so I can try these suits out, but was just curious to the public opinion out there.

The dry weight breakdown on the suits doesnt' really make it look like a 50/50 is warranted based on the weight alone, so it would have to a weight and flesibility decision.

TLS350
7 lbs

FLX EXTREME
8.85 lbs

CLX450
9.85 lbs

FLX50/50
11.1 lbs

CF200
11.8 lbs

Part of looking through all this makes me come to an unfortunate realization that like many things perhaps the right drysuit for cave diving and the right drysuit for diving in the PNW aren't the same drysuit and I need two.

[CaptnJack]

You need 2.
The cf200 is amazing. I love mine - super flexible. But not only is it 50% heavier when dry it takes forever to actually dry too. Its significantly warmer than a mere trilam, but good god is it heavy. And it would be too hot in MX.

I would get a CF200 again in a heartbeat. But probably would not get a TLS350 too. Nice suits but more money than you need to spend honestly. Get a cheaper trilam for cave diving in FL and MX.

But before you go buying new suits you need a singles wing and STA

[kitsapdiver]

But before you go buying new suits you need a singles wing and STA

Yes Sir! I concur, and some singles tanks, and setup dedicated singles regs.

[camerone]

Have you looked at the CLX450? It's what I ended up with a few years ago as a custom build. I got mine entirely of the heavy weight cordura, which they'll do on request, instead of the lighter FLX material on the bottom with a cordura top. It works well in both places -- more rugged than the FLX (and way more rugged than the TLS), and dries faster and is lighter than the CF. It's also plenty flexible in the caves, or up here with thick undies.

Especially in all-cordura, I think it's worth the consideration.

That said, when this suit finally goes, I'm leaning towards a Santi

FWIW - the TLS garnered a bad reputation in Florida for a while - the "Total Leak System". I think it was just a bad batch of fabric though.

[kitsapdiver]

Have you looked at the CLX450? It's what I ended up with a few years ago as a custom build. I got mine entirely of the heavy weight cordura, which they'll do on request, instead of the lighter FLX material on the bottom with a cordura top. It works well in both places -- more rugged than the FLX (and way more rugged than the TLS), and dries faster and is lighter than the CF. It's also plenty flexible in the caves, or up here with thick undies.

Especially in all-cordura, I think it's worth the consideration.

That said, when this suit finally goes, I'm leaning towards a Santi

FWIW - the TLS garnered a bad reputation in Florida for a while - the "Total Leak System". I think it was just a bad batch of fabric though.

Yeah my thought on the 450 was that it looks to be the least flexible of them all, and looks to be really heavy. The thing about 3mm crushed neoprene down to 1mm is that it provides some warmth and flexibility in exchange for the added bulk/durability. I figured the cordora does not offer that. I dove a BARE drysuit two weeks ago that was made of a their "cordora equivelant" material and just though it was a pain because it was stiff.

I've heard that about the 350s for a while, but have been told the one fabric prior to 2005 or 2006 was solid they changed it up and realized they had problems and are going back to a more durable nylon-trilam. Hopefully it does solve their problems.

[Penopolypants]

Try them on at the DOG Days, because it really comes down to how it feels and functions for you.

I am the only person I know that doesn't care for my CF200 - it's way to heavy and yet way too buoyant. It takes forever to dry. It's not THAT flexible, and I didn't think it was worth the bad things to justify the extra warmth (which is overrated for this suit to IMO). Did I mention that it's heavy?

I learned to dive in a CLX450 and really liked it, but yes, it's somewhat stiff. Not so much that you turn into a robot though. It's super tough.

Lots of people around here have the TLS and the Flex, so they are certainly successful in the PNW.

Really, though, it comes down to how the suit feels on you, and a side-by-side comparison will tell you much.

[kitsapdiver]

The decision actually got harder yesterday. I did rule out the 50/50 but I will say that the CF200 was way more flexible than I thought. It seemed to have everything I wanted for local diving, everything. It's just the weight that scares me. It certainly doesn't seem like travel is possible with it (thermally FL would probably be okay, but in MX it may even be too much thermally. The undergarments maybe limited to boxers, and socks).

The FLX Extreme was probably a little more flexible, but only marginally and is nice as well. It would travel well, but really where the CF200 seems to beat the FLX Extreme is that it is more durable, and provides a little bit of warmth by itself so I thought the CF200 was a warmer drysuit.

I'll still have my Catalyst 360 that I could use for traveling, it's just a bummer because when traveling I"m sold on ZIP seals. They make so much sense. Last time I was in FL I had a seal bust at Madison Blue Springs and we had to cancel our second dive in Madison in order to get to the shop to rent a suit. Zip Seals would have just been a couple of minutes in maintenance and wallah!

Damn, Drysuits are like boats they don't make the one perfect drysuit for every situation.

Both suits are significantly more flexible then than my Catalyst 360.

[fishb0y]

I had a CF200 for years, and that thing was indestructible. When I got rid of it, my zipper had about 2 inches of Aquaseal and I was still mostly dry.
Now I have a custom 450 and couldn't be happier. Its pretty rugged and I don't notice a lack of flexibility. If I were to do it again, I would stay with the neck ZIPseal, but I replaced the wrists with the SI Tech rings/wrist seals.

[kdupreez]

If you are going to do any kind of traveling with the suit, I would say get a FLX Extreme.

If you are mostly going to dive locally and seldom needing a light weight suit that dries quickly but you want warmth and durability, get a CF200

I have a CLX50/50 and a TLS and been diving the FLX on previous DOG days and lots of close dive buddies have 'em.

CLX450 is super durable and my 6yr old suit shows almost no wear on the CLX part. it is more bulky and less flexible for sure. The CF200 parts however are showing its age and the crotch seams have stretched and come undone a couple of times. (over about 600 dives and lots of abuse)

The CF portions are for sure more restrictive, but super warm and takes weeks to dry out toughly.. a flooded CF200 is damn near impossible to dry out without a fair amount of effort.. and a "malfunctioned" P-Valve in a CF200 suit makes for interesting aroma therapy for quite a while..

But you cant beat a CF for durability and warmth.

my TLS350 has been great suit overal and I love it! it has never leaked on me in 2 years so far that was not deserved.. its not as durable as the CF or CLX, but I travel with it and love it for travel and local diving.. custom cut TLS has no flexibility issues.

I can also tell you that my next suit will be a FLX Extreme.. And if you custom cut it, there is no problem with flexibility.

Also - keep in mind that flexibilty has a LOT to do with undergarments, maybe more so than the drysuit.

So in short I would recommend a FLX Extreme.. very durable, very light weight, dries instantly and superior flexibility, especially with a custom cut.

Also, I have new plastic TiZip in my TLS 350 and if you can wait till those are more main stream on the suits, I can for sure recommend the plastic zipper.. its got 50 dives on it now and shows ZERO wear.. its very flexible and weighs nothing.

Oh and ZIP Seals and ZIP Gloves, freegin rule!!!!

K

[lamont]

Owned my CF200 since probably 2005 and my FLX Extreme since 2011. Mostly I'm diving the FLX. Its pretty bulletproof. I had previously liked my CF200 due to it not wearing out (other than zippers and neck/wrist seals), it just doesn't get pinhole leak issues or seam issues like my old DC or what I've seen out of other's TLSes. The FLX, however, also doesn't have any of those problems. I actually took my CF200 to MX, and its the suit in my profile pic, and dove it with just a baselayer. It worked fine to dive, but it was a huge weight penalty on the plane.

I'd say the deciding factor would be how cold you're going to get. If you go the tech route and you have long deco stops in front of you, then the CF200 can't be beat for warmth. If you've already got good underwear, a 400g thinsulate undergarment, a heating vest, dry gloves with thinsulate liners, thinsulate booties and a 12mm hood and you're still cold, then CF200...

Now that I'm on the warm loop, though, I'm back to the FLX...