What defines a "Stroke" diver?

[Jeremy]

Buddy f$&ker = Buddies who are of no use and actually make the dive more dangerous, but consider themselves awesome.

[Joshua Smith]

stroke.jpg

This picture pretty much sums it up.

That pic almost GAVE me a stroke. I'd forgotten about that sparkly gem from the glory days of TDS. Might have to go dig that thread up and re read it, now.

[spatman]

Great thread. Thanks for clarifying where the term I occasionally toss around actually comes from!

[Emilyrc]

A couple of us had different theories the other day on what it actually meant. This is a great thread guys!

[H20doctor]

this:

The attachment doc.jpg is no longer available

then how do you explain your arrest over the weekend at Edmonds underwater Park ??

[mz53480]

this:

doc.jpg

then how do you explain your arrest over the weekend at Edmonds underwater Park ??

mike.jpg

I swear...Chad said he was at least 18....

[jerryehrlich]

The term started back in the days of when the "Doing It Right" (DIR) principles were founded by the ever colorful George Irvine..



He was a very pompous and arrogant (although very capable and skilled) diver at the time that used to do cutting edge dives and exploration in the Cave systems in Florida and helped define the hogarthian / team diving / minimalist, etc. style of diving and coined the term "

You forgot "helpful, instructive, patient, and he never charged a dime for sharing how to make your diving safer and more fun.

Jerry

[ReddMan253]

For me the term is defined as a person that is unable/unwilling to progress. They are a danger to themselves and their buddies.
New divers are no strokes. They're just new.

[kdupreez]

The term started back in the days of when the "Doing It Right" (DIR) principles were founded by the ever colorful George Irvine..



He was a very pompous and arrogant (although very capable and skilled) diver at the time that used to do cutting edge dives and exploration in the Cave systems in Florida and helped define the hogarthian / team diving / minimalist, etc. style of diving and coined the term "

You forgot "helpful, instructive, patient, and he never charged a dime for sharing how to make your diving safer and more fun.

Jerry

Yes - And you know because you dove with GI3 and he mentored you through training?? right???

seriously, im not trying to bash the guy, we all have good and bad traits.. he was an awesome diver and great mentor and is an all round good guy, but there is little debate about his arrogance (not always a bad thing either) and colorful in his ways when talking about and to non-dir divers..

[pensacoladiver]

this:

doc.jpg

then how do you explain your arrest over the weekend at Edmonds underwater Park ??

mike.jpg

I swear...Chad said he was at least 18....

I can't even remember what 18 felt like.

[LCF]

My understanding from people who knew and dove with George (and who have gone fishing with him now) is that in person, he is a much milder and much nicer man. He had a Jekyll and Hyde issue with the internet.

[selkie]

My understanding from people who knew and dove with George (and who have gone fishing with him now) is that in person, he is a much milder and much nicer man. He had a Jekyll and Hyde issue with the internet.

Good thing we don't have anyone "Jekyll and Hyde" like that around here.

[spatman]

My understanding from people who knew and dove with George (and who have gone fishing with him now) is that in person, he is a much milder and much nicer man. He had a Jekyll and Hyde issue with the internet.

Good thing we don't have anyone "Jekyll and Hyde" like that around here.

We sure used to.

[Grateful Diver]

... I've mellowed in my old age ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[spatman]

... I've mellowed in my old age ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Stroke.

[Joshua Smith]

The term started back in the days of when the "Doing It Right" (DIR) principles were founded by the ever colorful George Irvine..



He was a very pompous and arrogant (although very capable and skilled) diver at the time that used to do cutting edge dives and exploration in the Cave systems in Florida and helped define the hogarthian / team diving / minimalist, etc. style of diving and coined the term "

You forgot "helpful, instructive, patient, and he never charged a dime for sharing how to make your diving safer and more fun.

Jerry

Yes - And you know because you dove with GI3 and he mentored you through training?? right???

seriously, im not trying to bash the guy, we all have good and bad traits.. he was an awesome diver and great mentor and is an all round good guy, but there is little debate about his arrogance (not always a bad thing either) and colorful in his ways when talking about and to non-dir divers..

http://diver.net/bbs/messages2/14871.shtml

[Jeremy]

The term started back in the days of when the "Doing It Right" (DIR) principles were founded by the ever colorful George Irvine..



He was a very pompous and arrogant (although very capable and skilled) diver at the time that used to do cutting edge dives and exploration in the Cave systems in Florida and helped define the hogarthian / team diving / minimalist, etc. style of diving and coined the term "

You forgot "helpful, instructive, patient, and he never charged a dime for sharing how to make your diving safer and more fun.

Jerry

Yes - And you know because you dove with GI3 and he mentored you through training?? right???

seriously, im not trying to bash the guy, we all have good and bad traits.. he was an awesome diver and great mentor and is an all round good guy, but there is little debate about his arrogance (not always a bad thing either) and colorful in his ways when talking about and to non-dir divers..

http://diver.net/bbs/messages2/14871.shtml

Ok!! Now that is some fun reading. I think the case for colorful has been made!

Liked the last blurb....

That's a fair question to ask. And I had the chance to talk with Scott Landon and Jarrod Jablonski of the WKKP team and inquire about their perspective. Both men professed their deep disapproval of Irvine's behavior and hoped that the WKKP team as a whole would not be judged by Irvine's example. Jarrod told me, "You have to understand that George is beyond our control, he has the permits to Wakulla and essentially controls access. We have all tried to talk with him about shutting up and not making such a fool of himself and it just falls on deaf ears. Please don't leave any impression that the rest of us condone George's stuff. He's something of a necessary evil in order for us to dive."

[spatman]

That may be true from JJ's perspective, but many, many divers since GI3's heyday have been parroting and perpetuating his brand of elitist BS, unfortunately, and it still continues, although in a slightly diluted manner.

[kdupreez]

That may be true from JJ's perspective, but many, many divers since GI3's heyday have been parroting and perpetuating his brand of elitist BS, unfortunately, and it still continues, although in a slightly diluted manner.

Yup - thats been a serious pet peeve of mine..They are all Strokes in the true sense of the word.. at least thats my opininon

you'll usually spot them as sub 100 dive guppie divers that regurgitate the Irvine gospel in order to get some self sense of worth..

[Grateful Diver]

I'm going to offer my own thoughts ... from a local "historical" perspective ...

My first run-in with DIR was as a very new diver in 2001, sharing a wall at Cove 3 with a couple of divers who were wearing a hunk of metal on their back. Not ever having seen this before ... and being someone who likes to engage in conversation ... I tried to strike up a conversation with these two fellows. They weren't very friendly, and said something snide about me being a "silt-kicker". I was too new at the time to even know what the term meant ... but they left both me and Cheng with the impression that they weren't very friendly people. I later learned the were associated with a shop in Kent, and dived regularly at the coves with a group of young men the rest of us eventually started referring to as "the posse" ... because of their weekly habit of hanging out at Cove 2 sneering and joking among themselves at all the OW students with their poodle jackets, split fins and snorkels. They weren't very friendly.

Later that year the city's decision to put in a water taxi threatened to close Cove 2. Thanks mostly to the efforts of the Marker Buoys Dive Club, petitions were circulating to gather signatures to bring to City Council showing support for finding a way to maintain a diving presence at Cove 2. The solution they came up with was to define a taxi lane, and to install a "boundary rope" along the bottom that indicated the "no diving" zone ... we lost part of the cove, but were able to still dive there. A bunch of divers participated in the effort ... noticeably absent from that effort were "the posse" ... who showed up every week-end, but held themselves separate from the rest of us who were working to preserve the right to dive there. Shortly after the boundary rope went in it became apparent that many divers were using it as a guideline, rather than a fence, and there were some conflicts with fishermen because some divers were getting lost on the wrong side and ending up under the fishing pier. The decision was made to put in additional ropes to popular destinations ... the I-beams and Honey Bear ... to draw people away from the boundary rope. While we were doing that work "the posse" sneered and offered the sage advice "why don't you teach your divers how to navigate?"

At that same time, however another similarly clad, similarly trained group appeared ... David and Lauryn Evans, Kricket and Gordy, Terkel, David Kertzman ... these folks were friendly, and constantly offering to not just help out around the cove, but go diving with us "regular" folks ... and those of us who had developed this rather negative view of the "DIR" people started getting to see a different side.

But then there was the time when Andrew G was out teaching a Fundies class and they wandered into the Forbidden Zone ... shooting bags and surfacing right in front of an oncoming water taxi. Some of us watched in amusement as the captain of the taxi ripped them a new set of assholes right in front of a gathering crowd ... and being someone who never knew when to keep his mouth shut I offered to Andrew upon their return to the beach "Why don't you teach your divers how to navigate?" I think, to this day, he dislikes me because of it.

Over the years, lots has changed. Andrew sold his share of the shop to his partner, Mark. The shop moved from Kent to Issaquah ... and eventually I went to work there as an instructor. The posse faded into oblivion ... I don't think any of them even dive anymore. David and Lauryn split up, and David moved to Texas. Gordy and Kricket split up. Terkel moved to California. And David K stopped diving. Life happens. The faces and personalities of the DIR crowd changed, mellowed, became more inclusive and friendly. I left the shop ... it moved from Issaquah to West Seattle ... and now I'm back there again. Many of the folks who regularly identify themselves as DIR divers are former students of mine. Many of them are reading this post, I'm sure.

Times have changed ... way, way, way for the better, to my concern. When I traveled to Florida for my cave training, I was struck by the enormity of the rift between DIR and non-DIR divers down there. That's the context for the quotes we see from Irvine ... shop politics mixed with some rather enormous egos. We don't have that here. The wannabes and "strokes" ... those who got into DIR not because of its benefits, but because of its reputation as an elite group ... have reached their pinnacle and moved on to other activities. What we have left are people who just want to be good divers, who are friendly and responsible parts of a larger dive community, and who are genuinely helpful to others ... in other words, more what you'd expect from folks living our laid-back Pacific Northwest lifestyle. Rather than sitting around sneering at people who are trying to learn, they're pitching in and helping ... sometimes leading the charge to help divers improve and to preserve what we have for diving access.

The strokes have moved on ... instead of "us" and "them" what we have now is "us" and "us" ... and we're all better off for it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[H20doctor]

Mz is a stroke

[Jeremy]

Great post Bob

[kdupreez]

Ditto that!! Great post Bob!

[seainggreen]

Awesome post Bob. And thanks for the shout-out. I've spent considerable time and effort over the past decade (plus) trying to work on a more positive face for team diving and I've made many wonderful friends from that outreach, including you. One lesson I have learned along the way is that there are a lot of awesome divers out there. I really strive to see beyond agency lines and build bridges and friendships across a lot of different groups, and I have found that leads to a lot less politics and a lot more fun.

But just one little detail... I am still diving like a crazy woman! I've just had the good fortune to be more global in those efforts as of late.

That being said, starting mid-June, I'm back to regular Seattle diving and look forward to reuniting with new and old friends for some fun. So.... who wants to go diving this summer?

Laurynn

[Joshua Smith]

Awesome post Bob. And thanks for the shout-out. I've spent considerable time and effort over the past decade (plus) trying to work on a more positive face for team diving and I've made many wonderful friends from that outreach, including you. One lesson I have learned along the way is that there are a lot of awesome divers out there. I really strive to see beyond agency lines and build bridges and friendships across a lot of different groups, and I have found that leads to a lot less politics and a lot more fun.

But just one little detail... I am still diving like a crazy woman! I've just had the good fortune to be more global in those efforts as of late.

That being said, starting mid-June, I'm back to regular Seattle diving and look forward to reuniting with new and old friends for some fun. So.... who wants to go diving this summer?

Laurynn

Wish there were more like you and Bob. Welcome back.