Again, thanks all for the informative comments. This has given me quite a bit to think about before making any big decisions.
@ljjames, I appreciate the soapbox message. I am definitely trying to find the best setup for me, not a magic panacea that solves all problems, nor a way to become SuperUberMcDiver (tm). And I appreciate the additional feedback regarding wing sizing and the like.
When I get a schedule break, I will send come PMs out to try and arrange a dive to try out some gear, for those who have generously offered. This community is really fantastic, especially confronted with a question that has proven very derisive elsewhere on the internet!
1) shoulder straps don't need to be stupid tight, you don't get the stability of kit from the shoulder straps
2) you don't need quick release to get in and out of kit
3) moar d-rings are not better
4) the more you dive, the less the kit will matter. Backplate and wing is not the holy grail of diving, it's just a very nice tool. I dive with folks in nighthawk BC's that have as good if not better trim and control in water than most BP/W divers. BP/W can give you a 'leg up' but it is not the end all be all.
5) it won't make people like you more or less, or be more or less inclined to dive with you. If it feels like that is the case, then get out and dive with more people. The diver makes the diver, not the gear.
</end soapbox>
[/quote]
100% agree.
When was the last time you did something for the first time?
- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it
30# should be enough for an experienced diver. I liked my 40# (although Halcyon and probably not really 40# like rjack said) when I was first learning. It let me do silly things like switch from a buoyant Al80 to some old PST LP104 that was about 15# more negative without switching my weighting and not drowning myself. I still dive my 40#. YMMV.
Interesting find! I sent an email to the seller asking a few questions. Do you think this would be a workable setup for a newb?
Looks like the plate is AL rather than SS, which could be changed out.
The wing claims use for single or doubles, which makes me kinda wary, though the price is right! Would a different wing intended just for singles be better?
You can use an aluminum backplate, but you lose the advantage of having the plate form a chunk of your ballast.
I am really negative about wings that are designed for single or double tanks. To work with doubles at all, a wing has to have a very wide center panel. When you use such a wing with a single tank, the side pontoons of the wing are a long way from the tank, which allows them to balloon upward, or "taco" around the tank. Air trapped in the top of the pontoon is hard to get to a dump to get rid of, especially since, with a single tank and a dry suit, you won't have a lot of air in the wing to begin with.
I've dived with a couple of folks using Zeagle setups with such wings, and I've watched this problem actually happen, so it isn't theoretical. It is, however, not bothersome to people who do their ascents in a vertical position.
I personally wouldn't buy that setup because you can buy an aluminum plate and harness for that brand new, and the wing isn't a good one.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
Thanks for the quick reply. That is the same thought that I had, so it is nice to see that I am on the right line of thinking. Better to just buy once and buy right than get something suboptimal and have to replace every part of it.
I was thinking of picking up a weight belt now so I don't have to deal with the floppy weight pockets on my current BCD (whether I end up going BP/W or not). I already have a set of soft weights, so I was thinking of getting something like this:
It seems like there are actually surprisingly few options for a weight belt that will accommodate soft weights. Do you all think this would be a good option to make use of the lead I already have?
ljjames wrote:
5) it won't make people like you more or less, or be more or less inclined to dive with you. If it feels like that is the case, then get out and dive with more people. The diver makes the diver, not the gear.
:
I second this. ONLY reasons I switched from my old BCD is for using a scooter and reduced weight. My trim was pretty much spot on, so trim was a moot point for switching. I did meet some people who turned their nose up at me for diving a "doggy vest". They are no longer in my life thankfully.
CaptnJack wrote:
If you blow out a neck seal in the water you will very quickly want enough lift to hold you up without much suit buoyancy. 30lbs can be enough if you are lightly weighted or have enough detachable lead. My halcyon wings are supposedly 40lbs but I think that's a bit of a lie. They don't seem that big and actually seem smaller than my (admittedly) small 38lb doubles wing (AL80s in mexico wing).
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Side note, I'm willing to completely flood my suit and test a 30lb BPW in the name of science. ONLY during the summer though.
I was thinking of picking up a weight belt now so I don't have to deal with the floppy weight pockets on my current BCD (whether I end up going BP/W or not). I already have a set of soft weights, so I was thinking of getting something like this:
It seems like there are actually surprisingly few options for a weight belt that will accommodate soft weights. Do you all think this would be a good option to make use of the lead I already have?
That weight belt will work, I have one and it's fine. Get the one with 6 pockets (3 per side). The only problems I've had with mine are that it's tough to cram a 5lb weight into the pocket and some 2lb weights can sneak through the gap in the bottom.
PS - If your patient and can wait a few months to get your wing set-up Dive Right in Scuba runs a 30% off special on Hog gear every Black Friday and sometimes for other occasions. One of my regular buddies picked up a complete BP&W set-up from them last year for $350.
Last edited by BillZ on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I used that weight belt for a number of years. I stopped when I lost a 5 lb soft weight out of one of the pockets, and did my safety stop hanging onto a kelp stipe. But if you have a bunch of soft weights, it's a good way to make use of them. I also use weight pockets on my cambands, which is an option if you don't want to buy weight plates or a weighted STA.
Oh, and btw, there is no need for anybody to do the flooded dry suit test. I have already done it. I had a flood out at the boundary of Edmonds, and swam the 30 minutes in to shore, including the last ten on the surface. The suit was so full of water that I could barely walk to get out. The wing was adequate to keep my face above water to breathe. It would have been a little nervous-making if the sea had been rough. I was definitely riding low. I did not, however, ditch my weights, which would have had me riding 20 lbs higher.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
LCF wrote: Oh, and btw, there is no need for anybody to do the flooded dry suit test. I have already done it. .
BUT! In the name of SCIENCE! I kind of want to completely flood my suit on hot days anyways. While diving with the Cove 2 GUE guys, my suit filled to my shins and that was surprisingly okay. Well, except for the water swishing and hitting my woohoo.
I have also enjoyed the novel experience of a completely flooded drysuit, it was ~20 years ago with the hard neck ring on a Typhoon drysuit (so a shell suit with no inherent buoyancy). The pipe clamp on the neck seal attachment point slipped and therefor there was basically nothing holding the neck seal onto the suit. It was not summer. It was a stormy day with winds blowing inshore at the junkyard so significant wind waves/chop. I had a 30ish pound wing and was also able to make it back to shore just fine. Getting out of the water was a bitch.
----
"I survived the Brittandrea Dorikulla, where's my T-shirt!"
Melody had a latex neck seal separate from the material of her old OS suit back in around 1998. This was at Salt Creek, it was pretty bad not just temp wise (46 max and it was August), but exiting there with gallons of water in the suit was scary. And she'd ditched her belt too.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Interesting find! I sent an email to the seller asking a few questions. Do you think this would be a workable setup for a newb?
Looks like the plate is AL rather than SS, which could be changed out.
The wing claims use for single or doubles, which makes me kinda wary, though the price is right! Would a different wing intended just for singles be better?
That was essentially my first BP/W rig, although I paid considerably more for it than $100. The AL backplate is OK, and although it's better to have a steel plate for local diving (takes some weight off your belt), you can always keep the AL plate for traveling ... saves some lbs on your luggage weight.
The wing is serviceable for single-tank diving, but you'll eventually try a wing that's dedicated for singles and realize how much harder you're working with that "hybrid" wing ... and want to replace it. That's what happened to me anyway. There's a considerable difference in the design of single and double tank wings ... and any wing that's designed to be used for both is not optimal for either. It's like using a bread truck for commuting to work every day ... it gets the job done, but not in the most efficient manner.
About the only advantage I can see to that setup is that it gets you in the water for a small amount of money. But as with most things, you'll get what you paid for ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix
I was thinking of picking up a weight belt now so I don't have to deal with the floppy weight pockets on my current BCD (whether I end up going BP/W or not). I already have a set of soft weights, so I was thinking of getting something like this:
It seems like there are actually surprisingly few options for a weight belt that will accommodate soft weights. Do you all think this would be a good option to make use of the lead I already have?
I've been using that exact belt for years ... wore one out, bought a second one, and have about worn that one out. Mine are the one that has three pockets per side, not two as shown in the picture. I dive it with a BP/W, and with a total of 20 lbs in the belt, and find it to be exceptionally comfortable and useful. Being an instructor I especially like that it's relatively easy, if I have a student who suddenly needs a couple more lbs of lead, for me to take a weight out of one of my front pouches and donate it to the student.
Keep in mind that not everyone has the body shape for a weightbelt ... hips are required. Some people prefer the weight harness that comes with shoulder straps. These are more expensive, however.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix
BillZ wrote:
That weight belt will work, I have one and it's fine. Get the one with 6 pockets (3 per side). The only problems I've had with mine are that it's tough to cram a 5lb weight into the pocket and some 2lb weights can sneak through the gap in the bottom.
Yup ... two very good points ... both true. I use 3lb and 4lb weights in my belt for exactly those reasons ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix
Grateful Diver wrote:Keep in mind that not everyone has the body shape for a weightbelt ... hips are required. Some people prefer the weight harness that comes with shoulder straps. These are more expensive, however.
Many people love the weight harnesses. But they can be quite a challenge to manage on a small boat where you need to remove lead to get back in. In a weight integrated BC or with a normal BC + belt you can take off the lead and hand it up while still in the BC. The weight and trim harness has the ditching function but then you have to rethread that whole assembly. Or take off the BC and without any other floatation slip out of the harness. Taking off your floatation while still wearing all your lead ends up being really sketchy.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
I am definitely trying to find the best setup for me, not a magic panacea that solves all problems, nor a way to become SuperUberMcDiver (tm). And I appreciate the additional feedback regarding wing sizing and the like.
