Tanks-steel vs. stainless?

Need advice on recreational gear configurations? Look no further than this equipment forum.
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Tanks-steel vs. stainless?

Post by scottsax »

I need tanks to complete my basic gear configuration. I've dove (dived? doven?) on AL80s, and steel tanks in a variety of sizes. Since I'm a relative newb, I think the higher capacity of steel tanks plus the negative buoyancy at the end of the dive suit me better.

So the question is-galvanized or stainless? What's better and why? Cost doesn't matter so much to me as getting the right gear. I bow to your expertise....

Cheers,

Scott
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
Dmitchell
Perma Narc'd
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:53 pm

Post by Dmitchell »

Scott,

There's no such thing as Stainless Scuba tanks. Pretty much at the present the Steel tank of choice is Hot-dipped Galvanized. Though I have several Fabers which are painted and they are doing fine as well.

Dave
Dave Mitchell
_______________________________
It's OK to hijack my threads!
Great Sites - Flickr and NSOP
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

So what you're saying is this guy

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/spo/421543478.html

doesn't know what he's talking about? I'm OK with that, but I could've sworn I saw that verbiage used somewhere else, too. I used to sell stainless cookware and appliances, and a stainless scuba tank seemed like it would be crazy expensive.... #-o

Thanks for the answer, i'll go back to work now.....
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
Dmitchell
Perma Narc'd
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:53 pm

Post by Dmitchell »

That's exactly what I'm saying!

Dave
Dave Mitchell
_______________________________
It's OK to hijack my threads!
Great Sites - Flickr and NSOP
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

I hate it when that happens....
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
dsteding
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1857
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:50 pm

Post by dsteding »

scottsax wrote:So what you're saying is this guy

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/spo/421543478.html

doesn't know what he's talking about? I'm OK with that, but I could've sworn I saw that verbiage used somewhere else, too. I used to sell stainless cookware and appliances, and a stainless scuba tank seemed like it would be crazy expensive.... #-o

Thanks for the answer, i'll go back to work now.....
That guy is full of crap.

First, I am unaware of a 75 cf steel tank of any type. And, no, stainless isn't used.

I bet this is an old 72 of some sort. If it is, at $160 it is way too expensive.
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

dsteding wrote:
That guy is full of crap.

First, I am unaware of a 75 cf steel tank of any type. And, no, stainless isn't used.

I bet this is an old 72 of some sort. If it is, at $160 it is way too expensive.
OK, so that's brings up a good question-how much should I expect to pay for used tanks with a current VIP & hydro?
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
User avatar
Pez7378
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3256
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:09 am

Re: Tanks-steel vs. stainless?

Post by Pez7378 »

scottsax wrote:Cost doesn't matter so much to me as getting the right gear. I bow to your expertise..........OK, so that's brings up a good question-how much should I expect to pay..............

Cheers,

Scott
Well, I have a PST HP100 Just vip'd current hydro never been under water, and its full of air. if it's the right gear :book: , and cost doesn't matter,:smt119 make me an offer.
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Re: Tanks-steel vs. stainless?

Post by scottsax »

Pez7378 wrote:
Well, I have a PST HP100 Just vip'd current hydro never been under water, and its full of air. if it's the right gear :book: , and cost doesn't matter,:smt119 make me an offer.
That's my point, though.... I'd hate to either insult someone with an offer too low or get taken advantage of by offering too much....

:prayer: Need more knowledge first....
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
dsteding
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1857
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:50 pm

Post by dsteding »

scottsax wrote:
OK, so that's brings up a good question-how much should I expect to pay for used tanks with a current VIP & hydro?
My usual rule of thumb is that scuba gear should be priced at half of full retail used. If in great condition a bit more, if not in great condition, a bit less. Steel cylinders hold their value a bit more.

Galvanized, high pressure tanks are $330-$390 new, and carry a premium used because they are the nicest of steel tanks. So, I'd say $250 or thereabouts for such tanks make sense, if 1-2 years old, O2 clean, and with current VIP. Maybe more like $200-$225 if they are almost out of their first hydro, less if out of hydro or beat up.

LP tanks retail around $275 or so. Used I think they are worth $150 to $175 or so.

Remember, there are lots of hidden costs in buying used steel tanks. Expect to spend $40-$60 on a hydro/vip/02 cleaning, so factor that into what you are willing to pay. I'd get any tank that was going to see high fractions of O2 cleaned before I'd use it-you just don't know the history. Be sure to have someone take a look inside, some abused steel tanks can get mighty rusty . . . which would add the need to tumble them.

For what it is worth, I've paid as little as $40 for used AL80s out of hydro, and ~$40 for 72s in hydro with DIN valves. The latter tanks took me about $40 each to get into regular service (and I'm selling them as doubles now, just not using them).
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

dsteding wrote:Remember, there are lots of hidden costs in buying used steel tanks. Expect to spend $40-$60 on a hydro/vip/02 cleaning, so factor that into what you are willing to pay. I'd get any tank that was going to see high fractions of O2 cleaned before I'd use it-you just don't know the history.
Is the O2 cleaning something that's done to prepare the tank for nitrox? Can I wait and do it after I get my nitrox cert?
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
dsteding
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1857
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:50 pm

Post by dsteding »

scottsax wrote: Is the O2 cleaning something that's done to prepare the tank for nitrox? Can I wait and do it after I get my nitrox cert?
Yes and yes.
User avatar
Burntchef
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3175
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:29 pm

Post by Burntchef »

dsteding wrote:
scottsax wrote:
OK, so that's brings up a good question-how much should I expect to pay for used tanks with a current VIP & hydro?

Galvanized, high pressure tanks are $330-$390 new, and carry a premium used because they are the nicest of steel tanks. So, I'd say $250 or thereabouts for such tanks make sense, if 1-2 years old, O2 clean, and with current VIP. Maybe more like $200-$225 if they are almost out of their first hydro, less if out of hydro or beat up.

.

i just sold a worthington hp100 in vip and hydro for 225, not nitrox clean though. i would of asked 250 if it was o2 clean. just another benchmark for you. there are 2 sets of twins here in this section for sale, you could easily split them up and sell the hardware easy to make back a nice chunk of change, then be left with 2 tanks for a killer deal.
User avatar
Aquanautchuck
Pelagic
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:33 pm

Post by Aquanautchuck »

.[/quote]


i just sold a worthington hp100 in vip and hydro for 225, not nitrox clean though. i would of asked 250 if it was o2 clean. just another benchmark for you. there are 2 sets of twins here in this section for sale, you could easily split them up and sell the hardware easy to make back a nice chunk of change, then be left with 2 tanks for a killer deal.[/quote]

If I recall he said he was a newbie and consumption is a issue usually. Steel 72's would not do him much good unless he left them doubled.

My recommendation is to buy good used or new hp 100's. New they come O2 clean and would last him a lifetime if he took care of them. Later if he wanted to he could double them.

Dang they have gone up. The last set I bought 5 1/2 years ago from UWS were $275 each new.
Charles
User avatar
cardiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:43 am

Post by cardiver »

I got my x-130's brand new for 300.00 \:D/
-Ron T.
"When I'm 80 I'll take up real diving, which is done in a pub..." Ray Ives.
253-227-0856
My Dive Pics...
https://www.facebook.com/RETOPPPHOTOGRAPHY
gomi_otaku
Aquaphile
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:12 pm

Post by gomi_otaku »

I got my 2 HP100 Norton tanks at UWS Dive Fair last year for $240 each. They had 110s this year for $275 IIRC. It's worth waiting another year to save that kind of money.
gomi_
User avatar
Burntchef
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3175
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:29 pm

Post by Burntchef »

actually i was referring to johns twins he is selling, lp 98s or the mondo 108s. either would be a great tank for him. and the price is right. the 98s are nitrox clean allready and i believe both sets are in vip and hydro. all you need to do is have a shop break them up, i wouldnt be suprised if john has the old valves for them too.
User avatar
Burntchef
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3175
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:29 pm

Post by Burntchef »

check this one out

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/spo/420167821.html

" ONE FULL SIZE AND ONE HALF SIZE " #-o [/u]
User avatar
Aquanautchuck
Pelagic
Posts: 919
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:33 pm

Post by Aquanautchuck »

They look like a al 80 and a al 50.
Charles
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

Burntchef wrote:check this one out

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/spo/420167821.html

" ONE FULL SIZE AND ONE HALF SIZE " #-o
To be fair to the craigslist guy, he did say he didn't know anything about them. I think steel 100s are the way I want to go. Worst case scenario, I end up with too many tanks, if such a thing is possible, and I have to share them with buddies. \:D/

Thanks for all the help and the patience y'all! :prayer:

Now I just need to go get in the water!
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

OK one more tank question

Post by scottsax »

Last one I swear. What's the difference between LP and HP steel tanks? Obviously the fill pressure, but what does that MEAN, exactly. A HP 100 holds 100cf at what, 3200 psi, and an LP108 holds 108cf at ~2600 psi? In practical terms, what does that mean to me?

Underwater skills are important, but there really outta be a book out there with THIS kind of info in it. Maybe there is, but I thought the PADI books were a little light on this kind of technical information.

Thanks again,

Scott
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
User avatar
mancub
Dive-aholic
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:01 am

Post by mancub »

Scott
I am sort of a newb as well...but the main reasons I'd choose between LP and HP steel tanks are the weight and size (affecting trim), and the fact that my first stage has a yoke valve. I'll most likely get a DIN valve setup eventually, and dive high pressure tanks, but maybe not for a while, when I want to make the upgrade to duals if it is the right choice.
Also, depending on where you get air fills, you can get LP tanks filled closer to where they should be. A compressor in a smaller shop might not be able to fill to the higher pressure, a hot fill maybe.
If you have DIN or go that way, you can easily convert to yoke, so I am told.(traveling, al80s with yoke you'll most likely run into)
I wouldn't want to go the other way, if that is even possible. Seems to me that because a DIN valve screws in, it could be "safer" and less prone to o-ring failure or something. I am no expert though.
SO, we all want more air, and bottom time. A high pressure tank might accomodate that goal, while not being quite as cumbersome as an LP. Hopefully one of the veterans on here will either expand on what I said, or correct it...
Cheers
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

mancub wrote:the main reasons I'd choose between LP and HP steel tanks are the weight and size (affecting trim), and the fact that my first stage has a yoke valve. I'll most likely get a DIN valve setup eventually, and dive high pressure tanks, but maybe not for a while, when I want to make the upgrade to duals if it is the right choice.
So what you're saying is that HP tanks typically have DIN valves? A screw-in yoke adapter is pretty easy to come by.
mancub wrote:A compressor in a smaller shop might not be able to fill to the higher pressure, a hot fill maybe.
I don't know what a hot fill is, but shouldn't any LDS be able to fill a HP tank?
mancub wrote:we all want more air, and bottom time. A high pressure tank might accomodate that goal, while not being quite as cumbersome as an LP.
My air consumption goes down with each dive. I play sax, so breath control is a skill I already have. Of course, I could quit smoking, too.... ](*,)
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
Dmitchell
Perma Narc'd
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:53 pm

Post by Dmitchell »

Anything above 14.7psi is High Pressure!

LP fill pressures are 2250, 2400 or 2640 depending on the tank. So a LP 108 would be stamped 2400+ which means 108cf at 2640 the pl+ means you can over fill 10% (confused yet)

HP would be 3442 or 3500 depending on the tank. an HP 100 would be full 100cf at 3500 or 3442 depending on the tank.

Anything less than 3500 can be yoke or DIN. The 3500 tanks should have a 7/8" neck vs the 3/4" the rest have and are required to be DIN.

Most people are going to recommend DIN all the way around.

HP tanks are harder to fill than LP you have to be more on the ball about filling slow or topping off because they heat up when being filled. After filling they cool and the pressure drops. So it's more common to get a short fill on a HP tank.

DM
Dave Mitchell
_______________________________
It's OK to hijack my threads!
Great Sites - Flickr and NSOP
User avatar
scottsax
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:14 am

Post by scottsax »

:pale:

I understand that cubic feet is the VOLUME of air the tank holds. Psi is the delivery pressure of that volume of air? The density of that volume of air? The fill pressure (and if so, what does that mean?) All things being equal, is bottom time a combination of cf & psi?

](*,)

I was told there would be no math....
I'm going to look like a moose on rollerskates. -airsix
... my Mom caught me fenestrating once. -lavachickie
And I get so tired of fainting and peeing all over myself when the hammer falls on an empty chamber! -Nailer

Want to know where I'm performing? Check out my Facebook fan page!
Post Reply