WRIST SEALS??????????

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:47 pm

Okay...I need to vent a little bit. I dropped off my suit on TUESDAY to have new latex wrist seals put on. The shop just called me on SUNDAY to tell me they were "out of glue" and my suit wouldn't be done until late TUESDAY afternoon!
Am I wrong for being EXTREMELY pissed or is 7 days and 80.00 pls tax a reasonable time/price for two wrist seals being done in house?

](*,)

Pez7378 · Post by **Pez7378** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:35 pm

Not wrong for wanting to dive, not wrong for wanting to vent.

Sometimes these things happen. ](*,) How long would you wait if it went to the factory? How much more would you pay if you added S&H? Just my objective perspective. We all understand your frustration, sorry it's working out like this, but you'll be back in the water in no time! $\:D/$

Nitrogen addiction is a sickness. Don't judge us, we need help.

When I can't dive I put on my mask and fins and sit in the tub. I'd post pics but usually I dont have anything on.

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:50 pm

Why would I ship my suit out for wrist seals? Just another example of poor customer service in the diving industry. I bring my suit to a local shop to support said shop and get service like this. I can't imagine changing wrist seals takes more than a day to actually do.

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:37 pm

You could learn to do it yourself. It's pretty easy. After you've done it a couple of times it's REALLY easy. I get my seals for about $25 per pair. It takes less than an hour to do the job (right). I know that sometimes it's nice to 'drop it off and let someone else worry about it', but in the time it takes to drive somewhere to drop off the suit, and drive back to get it you could have done the job yourself in the comfort of your own home. That's my choice.

-Ben

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:44 pm

I would much rather do that. Someone should offer a class on basic equipment repair.

bnboly · Post by **bnboly** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:30 pm

Wonder how well duct tape would work........

Dmitchell · Post by **Dmitchell** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:22 pm

Don't know the shop and don't want too, but as a shop owner I'll respond.

I know we try to do our servicing in the order it comes in. So if the guy before you dropped of a bunch of stuff, then he gets his first.

The fact that they ran out of glue we'll crap happens. We've ran out of seals numerous times.

Everyone is so quick to slam the shop, but give them a break, Between trying to teach classes, sale gear, fill tanks, service gear, schedule trips, and all the other crap that's required to keep divers happy, sometimes you just forget to order glue.

Dave

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:50 pm

Followup: I misquoted the price. I checked and my last order was $32 for wrist seals. I didn't want to mislead anyone.

Regarding a HOW-TO, the book "Drysuit Diving" (paperback) has a good section on maintenance including detailed instructions for seal replacement.

-Ben

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:15 am

airsix wrote:Followup: I misquoted the price. I checked and my last order was $32 for wrist seals. I didn't want to mislead anyone.

Regarding a HOW-TO, the book "Drysuit Diving" (paperback) has a good section on maintenance including detailed instructions for seal replacement.

-Ben

I think this would be a great project for a group of dive buddies... say you and the "regulars" that you dive with get together, get edumacated, have fun and replace a set of seals together... Might work! :rr:

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:03 am

That sounds great. Who's seals are in need of replacement? ANy volunteers?

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:37 am

cardiver wrote:That sounds great. Who's seals are in need of replacement? ANy volunteers?

I've got 25 to 50 dives left on mine depending on how I treat them! $\:D/$ I'll keep you posted!

Aquanautchuck · Post by **Aquanautchuck** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:07 am

Nothing unusual on a 10-14 day turn around on seals. Sure they are easy and you can do them yourself, but if you want someone else to do them you just get in line. That includes dealing with out of glue or seals problems. You did not mention what was wrong with the seals. If they were just getting a little gummy or ragged a quick fix is to just trim off a 1/8" of so and clean them up. As for a torn seal, yes duct does work. I have used it for torn seals. I even used it on a torn neck seal once.

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:15 am

Ok....There was no one else waiting for gear. If you think that more than a week to do a 2-4 hour job is "normal" then you're obviously not involved in customer service . I could see two weeks if you sent the suit out, but not when you hand deliver it and the seals are in stock.
The wrist seals were 5 years old and needed to be replaced, not trimmed.

Dmitchell · Post by **Dmitchell** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:47 am

If they were out of glue, they were out of glue that can't always be helped.

I have a 1 week minimum on all repairs, Especially on seals, Given the several hours it takes, and the work to set it up, it's not cost effective to go through all that for 1 suit. We usually do them once a week in batches of 2-3 at a time.

Figure this your $80.00 goes about 1/2 for parts and the rest labor. When was the last time you had your car or your dishwasher or anything else repaired for $10-15 an hour.

BTW, DUI gets 5 working days for seals if you send it to the factory. Want it faster it's $50 more.

If you want to do your own here's a materials list for wrists-

Seal Cement
Aquaseal
Cotol
sandpaper
metal paint brushes
paper cups
electrical tape or masking tape
something to expand and hold the wrists of the suit open so you can put the seal on.
heat gun
Seals
Scissors

Dave

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:32 am

Thanks for the list. It looks like a 50.00 or so investment is all it takes to get started. When I get my new suit from Divetank I'll start practicing on the old one.

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:14 pm

cardiver wrote:If you think that more than a week to do a 2-4 hour job is "normal" then you're obviously not involved in customer service.

A business can't afford to have idle resources. If it's work like cutting hair or cleaning teeth they don't have to have many customers in the queue because there is a steady flow coming in the door. So the wait is short. There isn't a steady flow of drysuit seal repair work though. A shop can't employ 3 full-time suit gluers to insure customers have a short wait. Half the time the 3 guys would have their hands in their pockets waiting for more work to come in and the shop would go out of business or increase prices.

High Volume = high-speed supply chain (groceries, gasoline, newspapers)
Low Volume = wait in line (drysuit seals, helicopters, custom wigs, etc.)

-Ben

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:47 pm

airsix wrote: High Volume = high-speed supply chain (groceries, gasoline, newspapers)
Low Volume = wait in line (drysuit seals, helicopters, custom wigs, etc.)

-Ben

Damnit. I KNEW there was more to the story than they're telling me.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:53 pm

Sounder wrote:
airsix wrote: Low Volume = wait in line (drysuit seals, helicopters, custom wigs, etc.)

-Ben
Damnit. I KNEW there was more to the story than they're telling me.

EVERY time I try to get my helicopter lined up so that I can jump with my gear and wig into the sound it always is SUCH a hassle! :rr: Now I know why!

scottsax · Post by **scottsax** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:54 pm

airsix wrote: High Volume = high-speed supply chain (groceries, gasoline, newspapers)
Low Volume = wait in line (drysuit seals, helicopters, custom wigs, etc.)

-Ben

Of course, all businesses should move toward becoming lean enterprises...

Sorry, I'm at work and this is almost all we talk about....

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:18 pm

Tom Nic wrote:

Sounder wrote:
airsix wrote:

Low Volume = wait in line (drysuit seals, helicopters, custom wigs, etc.)

-Ben
Damnit. I KNEW there was more to the story than they're telling me.

EVERY time I try to get my helicopter lined up so that I can jump with my gear and wig into the sound it always is SUCH a hassle! :rr: Now I know why!

You think that's bad.. Let me tell you about the time that my wig got caught in the helicopter blades when I was jumping in.. Set me back months to get all that sorted out..

Pez7378 · Post by **Pez7378** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:31 pm

GillyWeed wrote:Tom Nic wrote:
Sounder wrote:
airsix wrote:

Low Volume = wait in line (drysuit seals, helicopters, custom wigs, etc.)

-Ben
Damnit. I KNEW there was more to the story than they're telling me.

EVERY time I try to get my helicopter lined up so that I can jump with my gear and wig into the sound it always is SUCH a hassle! :rr: Now I know why!
You think that's bad.. Let me tell you about the time that my wig got caught in the helicopter blades when I was jumping in.. Set me back months to get all that sorted out..

That reminds me of a time when I put a toy helicopter rotor in my sisters long hair. It was battery operated and spun her hair all up in the rotor. Boy was my Mom Pissed! My sister wasn't too happy with her new haircut either. BUT......the customer service was great, she got a haircut right away, and I didnt have to wait six weeks for my beating.

Zen Diver · Post by **Zen Diver** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:20 pm

cardiver wrote:I would much rather do that. Someone should offer a class on basic equipment repair.

At the DUI DOG Days each year they usually offer a Field Repair Seminar where they teach how to replace wrist and neck seals. It's too late for this year, but next year when they come you could catch it.

-Valerie

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:34 pm

Zen Diver 2 wrote:
cardiver wrote:I would much rather do that. Someone should offer a class on basic equipment repair.
At the DUI DOG Days each year they usually offer a Field Repair Seminar where they teach how to replace wrist and neck seals. It's too late for this year, but next year when they come you could catch it.

-Valerie

Good Call!

Cold_H2O · Post by **Cold_H2O** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:07 pm

Now that I have gone to latex seals this is something I need to learn.

Dove 10 years with neoprene seals.

Anything sooner than next years Dog Days???

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:58 pm

Okay, if you are adventurous, here is my 30-second HOW-TO. This is my method, and your mileage may vary...

1. Find out from your suit vendor which adhesive and solvent to use with your particular suit. Different suit materials require different glue/solvent.

2. Find a bottle, can, or other cylindrical object that is a snug fit when inserted into the sleeve/cuff of the suit. Use a large elastic or tape wrap around the sleeve above the cuff to hold it in place. You don't want it to slide around.

3. Use a hair dryer to apply heat to the glued area of the wrist seal. The glue will weaken (if it's the right type of glue!) and you can progressively peel away the latex seal.

4. Use the manufacturer-recommended solvent to clean the old glue from the sleeve cuff. Lightly rough-up the area to be glued using abrasive cloth or paper (unless the manufacturer recommends against this step). Clean again with solvent. Always clean after roughing-up. My suit is a Viking, so I am gluing rubber to rubber. A fabric suit might not need roughing up. Again, check with the suit manufacturer.

5. Turn the new seal inside-out, rough-up the area to receive glue, and clean thoroughly with solvent (I use toluene. It's awful nasty stuff. Do this outside and wear nitrile or other chemical-resistant gloves.) This is one of the most important steps because the latex seal still has mold-release residue on it and if you don't chemically remove it the glue won't stick.

6. NO GLUE YET! Install the new seal in place by stretching over the bottle or other round object supporting the sleeve/cuff. Adjust the seal so that it overlaps the cuff by the correct amount - in other-words get the seal right where you want it to be after it's glued in place.

7. Using masking tape or pvc electrical tape, apply several tight wraps around the latex seal just forward of the end of the suit cuff. You don't want the tape over the top of the sleeve cuff, you want the tape butted up against the end of the sleeve.

7. If you did it right you can now take the edge of the latex seal and fold it back on top of its self exposing the area of the sleeve to be glued. Apply the glue as per the manufacturer's recommendation. This usually means applying 2 to 3 coats to both the cuff and the seal, allowing each coat to dry before applying the next. When the final coat is dry (usually about 10-15 minutes) carefully roll the folded-over seal edge back onto the sleeve cuff. You will be using a contact adhesive, so the glue on the two parts should be dry before being pressed together.

8. Use a small (e.g., 2 inch) wallpaper roller to apply pressure to the glued area. DO NOT push the roller around the circumference of the cuff. This will stretch the latex seal and actually pull apart the glued joint. Instead roll back and forth lengthwise across the glued joint.

9. After you have applied plenty of pressure to the glued joint let it sit for a few hours. The glued joint is already strong, but it won't be it's max strength for 8-24 hours (my glue says 24).

10. Remove the tape from the seal and sleeve. Now remove the bottle/can that has been supporting the sleeve/cuff/seal.

11. Apply talc to any exposed glue on the sleeve/seal to neutralize.

Done and Done.

-Ben