Ships to Reefs......Pay attention!
Ships to Reefs......Pay attention!
Four Washington State Ferry Boats shutting down operations? Apparently according to one of the spokespeople "These 80 year old boats are 80 years old and they're old." I say......
SINK 'EM!!
Here's the story: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200711 ... /711210061
SINK 'EM!!
Here's the story: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200711 ... /711210061
Re: Ships to Reefs......Pay attention!
Hmmm, you sound like a volunteer to me.......Why don't you join WSA and propose this to the membership?Pez7378 wrote:Four Washington State Ferry Boats shutting down operations? Apparently according to one of the spokespeople "These 80 year old boats are 80 years old and they're old." I say......
SINK 'EM!!
Here's the story: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200711 ... /711210061
http://www.wascubaalliance.org/
BACK AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER - LET'S GO DIVING!
Re: Ships to Reefs......Pay attention!
Okay. I joined. Now what? Do I get a T-shirt? Hehehe. I actually tried to join up a few months ago when they were collecting sigs for the License plates. I guess I didn't get it right because I didn't hear anything from the organization.JDR wrote:Hmmm, you sound like a volunteer to me.......Why don't you join WSA and propose this to the membership?Pez7378 wrote:Four Washington State Ferry Boats shutting down operations? Apparently according to one of the spokespeople "These 80 year old boats are 80 years old and they're old." I say......
SINK 'EM!!
Here's the story: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200711 ... /711210061
http://www.wascubaalliance.org/
Re: Ships to Reefs......Pay attention!
Didn't WSA try to sink something before?JDR wrote:Hmmm, you sound like a volunteer to me.......Why don't you join WSA and propose this to the membership?Pez7378 wrote:Four Washington State Ferry Boats shutting down operations? Apparently according to one of the spokespeople "These 80 year old boats are 80 years old and they're old." I say......
SINK 'EM!!
Here's the story: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200711 ... /711210061
http://www.wascubaalliance.org/
GUE Seattle - The official GUE Affiliate in the Northwest!
Sorry for the cynicism, but... I think Washington State environmental politics makes sinking a ferry or any other artificial reef such a royal pain in the patoot that folks just give up. Too much red tape.
Here's hoping that changes! Can you imagine a ferry sunk at a popular SHORE dive site or area (Ruston Way? Redondo? Three Tree? Some place Seattle or North?)? (I realize that finding a site with adequate parking could be an issue... but Ruston Way or Redondo could fit that bill, Three Tree would not. I was just thinking in terms of underwater topography. I'm sure those of you that dive Seattle and North could think of other areas.)
Do you think people would come from out of the area to dive it? Yes! And they would spend their money to do so. Folks drive to the sound for our diving from Oregon all the time now as it is, and some well publicized cool sunken ships would only increase that. We know how the sunken reefs are an attraction in the Vancouver area as well.
Wouldn't a FERRY be a no-brainer here?! What a great iconic symbol of the Puget Sound area.
Anyway, enough of my ramblings, and a special thanks to the folks at WSA who I know are working, willing to work within the system, and have a long term vision for this kind of thing.
Here's hoping that changes! Can you imagine a ferry sunk at a popular SHORE dive site or area (Ruston Way? Redondo? Three Tree? Some place Seattle or North?)? (I realize that finding a site with adequate parking could be an issue... but Ruston Way or Redondo could fit that bill, Three Tree would not. I was just thinking in terms of underwater topography. I'm sure those of you that dive Seattle and North could think of other areas.)
Do you think people would come from out of the area to dive it? Yes! And they would spend their money to do so. Folks drive to the sound for our diving from Oregon all the time now as it is, and some well publicized cool sunken ships would only increase that. We know how the sunken reefs are an attraction in the Vancouver area as well.
Wouldn't a FERRY be a no-brainer here?! What a great iconic symbol of the Puget Sound area.
Anyway, enough of my ramblings, and a special thanks to the folks at WSA who I know are working, willing to work within the system, and have a long term vision for this kind of thing.
More Pics Than You Have Time To Look AT
"Anyone who thinks this place is over moderated is bat-crazy anarchist." -Ben, Airsix
"Warning: No dive masters are going to be there, Just a bunch of old fat guys taking pictures of fish." -Bassman
"Anyone who thinks this place is over moderated is bat-crazy anarchist." -Ben, Airsix
"Warning: No dive masters are going to be there, Just a bunch of old fat guys taking pictures of fish." -Bassman
While I still believe there is NO WAY the gov. of washington state is gonna let a boat the size of a ferry get sunk in puget sound for an artificial reef is appears that the electric boats will be scraped.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... es13m.html
The other interesting thing in this article is that they are taking a good chunk of $$ from the funds for the Mukilteo ferry terminal. Bad news for folks who commute that way, but it might stretch out our days of diving the oil docks a bit longer.....
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... es13m.html
The other interesting thing in this article is that they are taking a good chunk of $$ from the funds for the Mukilteo ferry terminal. Bad news for folks who commute that way, but it might stretch out our days of diving the oil docks a bit longer.....
Why wasn't the WSA able to sink a boat the last time they tried?
GUE Seattle - The official GUE Affiliate in the Northwest!
The Governer and DNR are currently against the use of artifial reefs.
They have cited many reasons, but the ones I remember were about the creating"unnatural habitats" that would theoretically draw fish away from other parts of the sound. Also the expressed fears about pollution due to the nature of water exchange in and out of puget sound not being sufficient to dissipate any potential pollution.
I'm sure there are folks here who know more than I do.....
They have cited many reasons, but the ones I remember were about the creating"unnatural habitats" that would theoretically draw fish away from other parts of the sound. Also the expressed fears about pollution due to the nature of water exchange in and out of puget sound not being sufficient to dissipate any potential pollution.
I'm sure there are folks here who know more than I do.....
Key word is "theoretically", IOW they are making it up. It's a rediculous argument with no scientific backing. In economics, it's known as the "zero-sum" theory. What that purports is that when someone becomes successful, somebody else is poor as a result. It's total nonsense, needless to say.Nwbrewer wrote:The Governer and DNR are currently against the use of artifial reefs.
They have cited many reasons, but the ones I remember were about the creating"unnatural habitats" that would theoretically draw fish away from other parts of the sound. Also the expressed fears about pollution due to the nature of water exchange in and out of puget sound not being sufficient to dissipate any potential pollution.
I'm sure there are folks here who know more than I do.....
They might have an argument with the water exchange part, but again, show me the hard data, not idiotic theories.
Okay, I would love to have a Wa-State ferry divesite.. Lets come together and make it happen. Do we need to contact WSA? or the Governor? I am sure that some of you NWdiveclub members could show that artificial reefs are great places for life to grow and thrive. Look at those eggs from TTN...in a pvc pipe or something. Maybe we should get the ARSBC to back us up and help out. (artificial reef society of British Columbia) they have around 7 wrecks 300+ft long!
This is a thought I'd had too. The state was NOT planning to buy several new ferries right now... the Coast Guard told them the boats had to be pulled and will not promise to allow them to sail again even when repairs. The boats being all metal are worth a lot and they'll need that money.CaptnJack wrote:Forgetaboutit. The value of those ships even as scrap is too high. The State needs that money to reimburse the accounts/projects they had to rob to buy new boats for the Keystone run.
It would be uber cool to have a ferry wreck though. I thought the Kalakala (sp?) would have been perfect, but the citizens would have NEVER allowed that one to sink.
GUE Seattle - The official GUE Affiliate in the Northwest!
Yeah its not like the city of Mukilteo is real happy about having their dock project postponed to buy ferries for the Keystone run. Putting those projects off even further by actually sinking some of the money in the Sound is not gonna fly. It might be a good tourism investment, but since the State already delayed replacing the 80yo diesel electrics for decades they aren't about to miraculously discover long-term vision now LOL.
I'd like to see the data on worst-case release of pollution from a hundred large ships sunk in puget sound over their entire 'lifetime' vs. the pollution from one year of runoff into the sound.Sea of Green wrote: They might have an argument with the water exchange part, but again, show me the hard data, not idiotic theories.
Agreed. My guess is that they don't even come close. But then folks are wanting to remove creosote pilings, destroying years of existing life build up... then putting some kind of structure in thier place so that life can grow on it. I'd like to see the data on the harm pilings are doing... I support environmentalist goals, but quite frankly much of what I see is almost a religion run amock. Just my .02 PSI.lamont wrote:I'd like to see the data on worst-case release of pollution from a hundred large ships sunk in puget sound over their entire 'lifetime' vs. the pollution from one year of runoff into the sound.Sea of Green wrote: They might have an argument with the water exchange part, but again, show me the hard data, not idiotic theories.
More Pics Than You Have Time To Look AT
"Anyone who thinks this place is over moderated is bat-crazy anarchist." -Ben, Airsix
"Warning: No dive masters are going to be there, Just a bunch of old fat guys taking pictures of fish." -Bassman
"Anyone who thinks this place is over moderated is bat-crazy anarchist." -Ben, Airsix
"Warning: No dive masters are going to be there, Just a bunch of old fat guys taking pictures of fish." -Bassman
Typical PNW over-environmentalist attitude. People see a problem and overreact to it so that no one calls them insensitive to the plight of the environment... gimme a break. Next thing you know PETA will be donning drysuits and bc's to monitor the stressfull effects of divers on the fish or something. ](*,) How about looking at the big picture effect other artificial reefs have had on large scale u/w environments? Or maybe making up some of that revenue defecit by sinking a boat in a very public way and drawing a crowd, then dipping in to the profits from tourism, etc...?
Oh wait, nevermind. They'd just misspend the money anyway.....
Oh wait, nevermind. They'd just misspend the money anyway.....
Not just front page famous, but above the fold famous...
Waiting for your AIDS test results is no time to be thinking positive.
Waiting for your AIDS test results is no time to be thinking positive.
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Here's an update on the notion of placing vessels as dive attractions in WA waters.
Obviously, there is considerable support within the dive community. There is equally considerable concern on the part of various state agencies regarding whether that concept makes sense.
In the 2007 legislative session (the one that produced the 07-09 budget), WSA promoted a feasibility study to examine the issues surrounding the concept. These issues focus primarily on the physical, biological, and economic impacts that would be produced by such an undertaking. To make a long story short, what resulted was $50K to produce a scoping document that outlined what such a feasibility study would look at. We will be active again in the 2009 legislative session (which will produce the 09-11 budget) to promote funding of the full feasibility study. The scoping study indicated a fully-burdened cost of between $1.2M and $2.4M to examine these issues. Without any editorial comment on that cost, I believe the feasibility study could be conducted for less.
If anyone is interested, you can download a copy of the scoping document at http://www.wascuba.org/ships2reefs.htm
The (not surprising) abrupt retirement of the Steel Electric class ferries presents an opportunity to perhaps move a little more quickly on the feasibility study. There are only two choices for final disposition - placing as dive attractions or scrapping. We'll be working to convince the state to look objectively at whether it makes sense to place them as dive attractions.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Obviously, there is considerable support within the dive community. There is equally considerable concern on the part of various state agencies regarding whether that concept makes sense.
In the 2007 legislative session (the one that produced the 07-09 budget), WSA promoted a feasibility study to examine the issues surrounding the concept. These issues focus primarily on the physical, biological, and economic impacts that would be produced by such an undertaking. To make a long story short, what resulted was $50K to produce a scoping document that outlined what such a feasibility study would look at. We will be active again in the 2009 legislative session (which will produce the 09-11 budget) to promote funding of the full feasibility study. The scoping study indicated a fully-burdened cost of between $1.2M and $2.4M to examine these issues. Without any editorial comment on that cost, I believe the feasibility study could be conducted for less.
If anyone is interested, you can download a copy of the scoping document at http://www.wascuba.org/ships2reefs.htm
The (not surprising) abrupt retirement of the Steel Electric class ferries presents an opportunity to perhaps move a little more quickly on the feasibility study. There are only two choices for final disposition - placing as dive attractions or scrapping. We'll be working to convince the state to look objectively at whether it makes sense to place them as dive attractions.
Hope this helps.
Mike
We have no shortage of vessels around suitable for sinking without the kaput ferries. I am continually surprised by Washington's capacity to "study" rather than make decisions LOL. I'm not really into wrecks and fake ones even less so, but I'm pretty sure 1.2 to 2.4 million is quite a bit more than a thorough cleaning of virtually any ship would cost.
Value per diver of the Oriskany...
http://yosemite.epa.gov/EE/epa/eed.nsf/ ... enDocument
is pretty danged high. I wonder how much it cost to clean her and when the 'investment' will break even.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/EE/epa/eed.nsf/ ... enDocument
is pretty danged high. I wonder how much it cost to clean her and when the 'investment' will break even.