diving accident at alki, woman diver rescued????

Cuppie · Post by **Cuppie** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:38 pm

So i havent heard the story yet but i had a friend call and check on me because she said there was a diving accident at seacrest (alki) tonight 7-18-06. My friend said the women diver ran out of air and they had to buddy breath to the surface and then had to give the woman CPR for 20 mins until the EMS arrived....I was just wondering if anyone knows the whole story or if one of our own was the injured/rescued diver.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:43 pm

Crap- looks like she didn't make it:

http://www.komotv.com/stories/44490.htm

Cuppie · Post by **Cuppie** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:46 pm

that is beyond frightening, i couldnt find it online but im glad you did. my heart goes out to her family, that just goes to show you how going to the office can kill you, literally. i havent seen it on the TV yet but that is where my friend saw it.

BDub · Post by **BDub** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:51 pm

Jeanna was the first diver to get out there. They were quite a ways out in front of the fishing pier. We were just getting ready to descend when her buddy yelled for help. 3 other divers and I were just behind Jeanna and we all got her in to the dock where Medics were waiting.

The victim was not part of our dive group, but as I understand it, the 2 divers started their ascent when the victim was low on air and she ran out of air before reaching the surface and fell unconscious. Her buddy dropped her weights and got her buoyant, but she wasn't breathing.

I do know they were doing a dive around the boundary line and were at about 100' when she got low on air.

Brian

Cuppie · Post by **Cuppie** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:54 pm

i am glad to hear that jeanna is okay, i had talked with her earlier and knew she was going to be out there, she was one of the first that came to mind, im glad you guys are alright.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:55 pm

It's sad. I feel bad for whoever loves her; whoever's going to miss her tomorrow. And yes, diving's dangerous- or, rather- people die while diving, and mistakes can kill you fast underwater, but- if she'd died in a car wreck on her way to go diving, would you feel different right now?

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:54 am

My condolences to this woman's loved ones.

Thank you to Lamont, Geof (Bones), Raul, Brian, and Jeanna for their efforts in trying to save this woman's life.

Sorry it didn't turn out to have a happier ending ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

John Rawlings · Post by **John Rawlings** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:47 am

Grateful Diver wrote:My condolences to this woman's loved ones.

Thank you to Lamont, Geof (Bones), Raul, Brian, and Jeanna for their efforts in trying to save this woman's life.

Sorry it didn't turn out to have a happier ending ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Agreed.....

Each of you involved in the attempted rescue has my profound respect.

Although I'm certain that right now all of you are only feeling the pain of the tragedy you were part of, you need to consider your selfless actions and reflect upon them with the pride they deserve. A fellow human being was in horrendous trouble.....you responded immediately......you took the right actions.....and you did all that you could while others merely watched (or callously snapped photos!).

I'm certain that she knows that in her last moments she was surrounded by caring angels.

- John

Scubak · Post by **Scubak** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:33 am

You said it correctly and I agree with you...

Each of you involved in the attempted rescue has my profound respect.

Although I'm certain that right now all of you are only feeling the pain of the tragedy you were part of, you need to consider your selfless actions and reflect upon them with the pride they deserve. A fellow human being was in horrendous trouble.....you responded immediately......you took the right actions.....and you did all that you could while others merely watched (or callously snapped photos!).

I'm certain that she knows that in her last moments she was surrounded by caring angels

- John

K

Zen Diver v1 · Post by **Zen Diver v1** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:04 am

Couldn't have said it better than that John.

-Valerie

Sergeant Pepper · Post by **Sergeant Pepper** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:19 am

I think that pretty much cinches up the pony bottle discussion.

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:45 am

Sounder wrote:I'm sure as more details come out, the picture will become clearer. Regardless of what happened, it is quite sad. Sounds like everyone there really came together to coordinate the rescue - nice job.

When you say she was "low on air at 100fsw," how low was she? What can newer divers learn from this? I assume many people here know her or know who she is... what was her experience level, and where did it go wrong?

According to one of the rescuers, when he checked her gauge it read "0".

As to what we can learn, it's always difficult to learn anything from these incidents unless the surviving dive buddy wants to discuss it ... otherwise, we're just speculating about what might have happened. And while there are lessons to be learned from speculation, we need to keep in mind that what actually happened might have been something else.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:52 am

Sergeant Pepper wrote:I think that pretty much cinches up the pony bottle discussion.

A pony bottle can be helpful ... but only if used properly. It is no substitute for training or experience. It won't keep you from panicking if you're inclined to do so. And it won't save you if you haven't practiced deploying it and adopted a routine for checking that it's deployable before every dive.

It appears that this buddy team had initiated an appropriate shared-air procedure, and that the dive buddy had adequate air to get them both to the surface ... but all bets are off when stress leads to panic. Most recreational divers would have difficulty doing a direct ascent from 100 fsw even without the stress of a shared-air situation.

Panic is a leading cause of diver death ... and no piece of gear will reduce your propensity to panic. Only practice and experience (i.e. self-confidence in your abilities) will do that.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:44 am

Sounder wrote: I've been thinking about it all morning (as I'm sure everyone else has) and all I can come up with is "Plan your Dive, and Dive your Plan."

That only works if you have the knowledge to plan in advance how much air you will need for the dive you are planning. It also helps to know how to plan adequate reserves for dealing with emergencies.

Since you are planning to take your AOW class with me, I will teach you how to do that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

JDelage · Post by **JDelage** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:01 pm

Do we know that she actually died from drowning, and not some other diving related cause? I have trouble envisionning someone with a buddy drowning in such circumstances. Plenty of other bad accidents, or both of them drowning - but only one...

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:43 pm

Pure speculation on my part but usually panic is the ultimate culprit. Once that sets in then descicions made usually arent rational..

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:54 pm

I'm unable to stop thinking about this incident as it's so close to home and so close to what I love to do.

Whatever the cause I send my condolences to those she loved and those that loved her.

Someday, perhaps, we'll know the cause and this incident will remind us to keep diligent at all times.

Calm seas and a warm breeze.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:47 pm

I'm new, but I've allready spent a ridiculous amount of time reading posts on the internet about diving accidents- current ones and ones from the archives. One conclusion I've come to is that these things breed endless speculation. While what happened here seems pretty clear cut, I don't think anyone but the victim and her buddy will ever really know what happened. Some good may come from analyzing the incident, true. But I would just like to point out that we should try to refrain from passing any judgements and being too critical, generally. And let's all take a good look at our own diving, and see if we can't help each other be safer in the water. I just started diving four months ago, and I love it far too much to ever consider quitting, allready. But incidents like this are sobering reminders of how high the stakes are.
Dive safe, everyone.

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:57 pm

JDelage wrote:Do we know that she actually died from drowning, and not some other diving related cause? I have trouble envisionning someone with a buddy drowning in such circumstances. Plenty of other bad accidents, or both of them drowning - but only one...

In this case, yes ... she died of drowning.

Stress is not our friend ... it can keep you from noticing things that you'd normally notice ... which can lead to little things going wrong that you'd normally just correct without too much thought ... which can build into bigger things ... which can lead to distraction ... which can lead to distress ... which can lead to panic.

Once you reach panic, all semblance of rational thought goes out the window as your brain's survival instinct kicks in. Unfortunately, our survival instinct isn't hard-wired for underwater survival, and the "fight or flight" response can lead to tragic results.

If you're looking for lessons, that's the one you should ponder ... most diving accidents are not the result of a single mistake, but rather a chain of events that ultimately leads to the accident. Break the chain at any point and the accident doesn't happen.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:08 am

Wow,
So many things that could of gone wrong.
It would be hard to assume just one contributing factor / Cause, in this or any other dive accident.

Bob,

Thankyou for giving this perspective, It helps me and hopfully others to deal with something like this happening in our own back yard / Community.

I find myself re-thinking, Do I realy want to help my 15 year old daughter, get OW certified?

The answer? Yes, the key is to help her learn the Safety First concept.
And also this is her desire, not just mine.

I am grateful we have so much exsperience right here within this club
to learn from. there are divers like Bob,John,Calvin,Valerie,Jeanna,K and many others who can help us with our Safety as well as our skills.
Thanks! North West Dive Club!

Zen Diver v1 · Post by **Zen Diver v1** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:04 am

Sasquatch wrote:I'm unable to stop thinking about this incident as it's so close to home and so close to what I love to do.

Yep, I hear you and feel the same. This morning before I left work someone came up and gave me a big hug, saying she'd heard about the diver death and was a) glad it wasn't me, and b) wondering if I knew the person, and was concerned about how I'd be feeling. I've been thinking about it constantly, maybe because I was just there yesterday too, I don't know.

Best we can do for ourselves is review, practice skills, pay attention, especially to those little feelings and nagging doubts, and be there for each other during these tough times.

Had a sh**ty night at work last night and I'm not sure how well I'm articulating. Does that make sense?

-Valerie

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:23 pm

Sergeant Pepper wrote:I think that pretty much cinches up the pony bottle discussion.

there was a diver who died a few years back who had a pony bottle. him and his buddy split up to surface (per their dive plan) and he ran OOA on backgas and tried to go onto his pony bottle on the ascent (per dive plan) and could not deploy the pony bottle reg and drowned.

they're not a panacea. it would be much better to focus on gas planning and air sharing. you should never get into a situation where you need a pony bottle in the first place.

rigging of a pony bottle is also a little troublesome. most of the back-mounted pony bottles i've bubble checked in the water have a stream of bubbles from the first stage o-ring. most back-mounted pony bottles don't have their valve in a spot which is accessable and don't have SPGs. also a lot of pony bottles aren't sufficient to come up from those depths -- you really need at least an Al19.

if you insist on a pony bottle, at least put a button SPG on it and mount it upside down so you can reach the valve. better yet would be an Al30 or Al40 slung like a techdiver's deco bottles.

and it goes without saying that you should practice with it frequently so that you're used to deploying it and that you ensure that it still works (i had a backup reg that got crushed under my tank once and breathed okay on the surface but breathed wetter and wetter with depth that i caught within a dive or two because we frequently drill and i use it).

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:48 pm

they're not a panacea. it would be much better to focus on gas planning and air sharing. you should never get into a situation where you need a pony bottle in the first place.

Thats why I carry a pony bottle "cause you never know". There are all kinds of gear configurations. It doesent matter who you are or what you know you can NEVER forsee everything. I am in no way saying that a pony is better than anything else thats just what I use. Mabey when I take some more technical courses I wont see the benifit of one. But until then I will keep mine. I like the redundancy..

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:17 pm

I'm going to be rigging one up soon. I plan on practicing with it a lot. My main reason for wanting one is the fact that everything boils down to one O ring at my first stage. It boils down to my first stage, period. I really like the idea of having a totally seperate air supply. I'm not ready for doubles yet, but I think I can handle a pony bottle. I want to learn gas planning better than I do now, and I want to work up to doubles, and I even want to pursue tech diving- when I'm ready. But in an emergency, my first preference will always be to self-rescue, if it's a reasonable choice- and right now, I think a pony is a good choice for a little peace of mind. (But not a panacea)

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:39 am

Nailer99 wrote:I'm going to be rigging one up soon. I plan on practicing with it a lot. My main reason for wanting one is the fact that everything boils down to one O ring at my first stage. It boils down to my first stage, period. I really like the idea of having a totally seperate air supply. I'm not ready for doubles yet, but I think I can handle a pony bottle. I want to learn gas planning better than I do now, and I want to work up to doubles, and I even want to pursue tech diving- when I'm ready. But in an emergency, my first preference will always be to self-rescue, if it's a reasonable choice- and right now, I think a pony is a good choice for a little peace of mind. (But not a panacea)

Me too!