One thing to look at is where the dump valve on your dry suit is located. If it is toward the front of your arm or chest, you may HAVE to break trim to dump. I had a custom dry suit that came with the dump valve on the FRONT of my chest; the only way to vent the suit was not only go vertical, but lean over on my back! (Needless to say, that one went back.)
The real key to dry suit buoyancy control is anticipation. It takes TIME to move air around in the suit, and the dump valves don't exhaust terribly fast, so you have to stay ahead of the need for venting or you find yourself behind the eight ball. You have to pay attention to the terrain, so you realize you're ascending, and pay close attention to the way the suit feels on your body, to recognize when it's getting a bit loose. It's very easy to lose track of that information if you are also managing your BC and trying to keep track of your buddy or an upline or watch your compass for navigation.
It all comes with time and miles underwater :-)
Drysuit training
Re: Drysuit training
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
Re: Drysuit training
I'm With you! We should go diving together. Then we can do our stupid stuff together. (although without an experienced diver with us we would probably get into more trouble) My friend (and now forced dive buddy) has only gone on one dive with me and is already frustrated. I messed with my tank strap so He had to fix it. I lost my mask swimming back to the boat, he had to look for it. And on top of it all, my alum. 80 tank only had like 2500lbs in it so my dive was like 20min.GetWet wrote:Ugh.
I try to keep a positive attitude, I really do enjoy diving. But since I need a buddy to do everything I hate the fact that I have to suck up someone else's time while I remember that "all I have to do is turn to the right" to let some air out of my dry suit. This all sounds so easy, and I am sometimes justs flat out embarrassed by how slow I am to 'get' this. If this was any of the other hobbies I have I would simply go off in a corner and repeat ad infinitum until I got it and would not have to waste anyone else's time while I simply got it through my pea brain that duh you are not adding any air any where when you are ascending. In my case I have an empty BC, am trying to have an empty dry suit and am corking like mad, grabbing onto what ever poor thing there is on the bottom to hold me down and not really having very much fun at this point, and often just giving up.
Sigh... Thanks for the feed back. I will keep trying.
I am A SPAZ.Re: Drysuit training
Well that brought a bonified smile! Thanks. And the last comment about anticipating... rings very true. Next weekend I plan on logging mucho miles under water.... I'll let you know how it all goes, but I want to tell you all... a big heart felt thank you for talking through the mental stuff. I am now looking forward to practicing this again and coming up with the next list of "how come that happened'.... 
See ya, hope fully in the water.... Melissa
See ya, hope fully in the water.... Melissa
Re: Drysuit training
This is great advice.LCF wrote:One thing to look at is where the dump valve on your dry suit is located. If it is toward the front of your arm or chest, you may HAVE to break trim to dump. I had a custom dry suit that came with the dump valve on the FRONT of my chest; the only way to vent the suit was not only go vertical, but lean over on my back! (Needless to say, that one went back.)
The real key to dry suit buoyancy control is anticipation. It takes TIME to move air around in the suit, and the dump valves don't exhaust terribly fast, so you have to stay ahead of the need for venting or you find yourself behind the eight ball. You have to pay attention to the terrain, so you realize you're ascending, and pay close attention to the way the suit feels on your body, to recognize when it's getting a bit loose. It's very easy to lose track of that information if you are also managing your BC and trying to keep track of your buddy or an upline or watch your compass for navigation.
It all comes with time and miles underwater :-)
Melissa - send LCF (Lynne) an email/PM and ask her to go diving with you. She's a fantastic mentor, loves helping them newer divers, and she can always be talked into blowing bubbles when she's not working. She won't tell you how amazing of a diver she is, but the rest of us sure will!! LCF is a kick-ass diver who has a lot to share - if you ask her for advice/help, she'll do so in an easily understood, totally helpful and usually humorous manner. She also loves critters so she'll show you some cool stuff while you're down there too!
GUE Seattle - The official GUE Affiliate in the Northwest!
Re: Drysuit training
Ok, I don't know where we are going to be Friday, south somewhere.
Saturday at Keystone for the Critterwatchers BBQ, and Sunday at maybe Alki beach Cove 2 or Edmonds, so maybe we'll see you there.
Bob and Melissa
Saturday at Keystone for the Critterwatchers BBQ, and Sunday at maybe Alki beach Cove 2 or Edmonds, so maybe we'll see you there.
Bob and Melissa
Re: Drysuit training
Although I'm blushing at what Sounder wrote, I do want to post here and say that he's completely right about one thing. I really enjoy diving with new divers, and doing what small things I can do to help them get settled and more comfortable in the water. So MUCH kindness was shown to me when I was new -- I would not in any way be the diver I am if it weren't for the generosity of people like Bob, who put up with my descents on my back, and my utter inability to hold any kind of stop (which took a discouragingly long time to fix!) So I completely understand what it's like to be (or feel) clumsy or awkward or inept underwater. (Shoot, I STILL have days when it feels that way!)
Although my schedule this year so far has not really allowed me to hook up with any of the new divers (I've been working almost every weekend I'm in town), the fall should be different. (It WILL be different, or I'm finding another job!) Please, anybody, feel free to PM me about going diving.
Although my schedule this year so far has not really allowed me to hook up with any of the new divers (I've been working almost every weekend I'm in town), the fall should be different. (It WILL be different, or I'm finding another job!) Please, anybody, feel free to PM me about going diving.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
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Sockmonkey
- I've Got Gills
- Posts: 1467
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:43 am
Re: Drysuit training
All,
I may be coming a little late into the thread but figured I'd comment anyways.
When I purchased my drysuit last April my former LDS (in Boston) threw in a PADI drysuit class. While I don't tend to use my suit for buoyancy, I'm sure glad I learned how to do so. It made me less fearful of managing the air moving around my suit. Of course the PADI course doesn't mention anything about being in trim or posture at all... only that you need to be able to hover for a few mins... but precious little on how to do so. The course material manages to use scare tactics about the hazards of drysuits (too much air... or leaking) and a couple ways to get yourself out of an emergency.
The most valuable thing I "learned" was how to right yourself if you end up corking feet first. I nearly threw my back out twisting around violently in the pool but at the very least I know its possible.
So I didn't walk away with a pile of skills but I did manage to gain a bunch of confidence so I can focus on my buoyancy and trim. After about three or four dives in my new suit I didn't think once about the fact I was in a drysuit.
If I were to create my own dry suit curriculum I would probably ensure that everyone get themselves sorted out past 15 feet. I spent some time trying to deal with my suit in shallower water only to find that I became comfortable past the magic 15. Once I was able to get myself horizontal and comfy at 15-20 feet I then worked on being able to manage myself shallower.
The last thing about the PADI class which I didn't realize (because I didn't read the material very well before the dive... nor did we practice in the pool) was that they require you to take your BC off at the surface in a drysuit. Ugh. I spent a whole bunch of time loosening the harness on my backplate before we got wet... which made our little checkout dive less than fun since my tank wandered all over the place behind me. I wonder if I would have used my old BC if I had known... probably not.
-Eric
I may be coming a little late into the thread but figured I'd comment anyways.
When I purchased my drysuit last April my former LDS (in Boston) threw in a PADI drysuit class. While I don't tend to use my suit for buoyancy, I'm sure glad I learned how to do so. It made me less fearful of managing the air moving around my suit. Of course the PADI course doesn't mention anything about being in trim or posture at all... only that you need to be able to hover for a few mins... but precious little on how to do so. The course material manages to use scare tactics about the hazards of drysuits (too much air... or leaking) and a couple ways to get yourself out of an emergency.
The most valuable thing I "learned" was how to right yourself if you end up corking feet first. I nearly threw my back out twisting around violently in the pool but at the very least I know its possible.
So I didn't walk away with a pile of skills but I did manage to gain a bunch of confidence so I can focus on my buoyancy and trim. After about three or four dives in my new suit I didn't think once about the fact I was in a drysuit.
If I were to create my own dry suit curriculum I would probably ensure that everyone get themselves sorted out past 15 feet. I spent some time trying to deal with my suit in shallower water only to find that I became comfortable past the magic 15. Once I was able to get myself horizontal and comfy at 15-20 feet I then worked on being able to manage myself shallower.
The last thing about the PADI class which I didn't realize (because I didn't read the material very well before the dive... nor did we practice in the pool) was that they require you to take your BC off at the surface in a drysuit. Ugh. I spent a whole bunch of time loosening the harness on my backplate before we got wet... which made our little checkout dive less than fun since my tank wandered all over the place behind me. I wonder if I would have used my old BC if I had known... probably not.
-Eric
Re: Drysuit training
Although my schedule this year so far has not really allowed me to hook up with any of the new divers (I've been working almost every weekend I'm in town), the fall should be different. (It WILL be different, or I'm finding another job!) Please, anybody, feel free to PM me about going diving.
This fall I'll take you up on this offer! I'ld like to spend a week-end at Alki just working on this stuff, so when summer stuff mellows, lets do it.
Melissa (aka GETWET)
This fall I'll take you up on this offer! I'ld like to spend a week-end at Alki just working on this stuff, so when summer stuff mellows, lets do it.
Melissa (aka GETWET)
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
Re: Drysuit training
I had a great dive last week-end. Got some pointers from the DUI rep at the Underwater Dive Fair, and was able to implement them. Actually was able to ascend to 5' no corking! Had a terrific dive on Sunday at Keystone Jetty doing the critter watch. That was a ton of fun! First time I've ever come out of the water laughing 
. Gotta love having a good buddy....
. Gotta love having a good buddy....-
Sea of Green
Re: Drysuit training
I was not offered a dry suit orientation with my first dry suit. I think they had them available for a price, but I had already been diving for about 3 years and approx 150-200 dives. My biggest concern was what to wear underneath. I had an O'Neil neoprene, and the idiot at the shop said I only needed shorts and t-shirt and the neoprene would keep me warm. Well, maybe in Florida in 80F water, but I wore a dive skin and nearly froze to death. I spent about 5 or 6 miserable dives figuring out the right type of undergarments to wear. I settled on REI expedition weight long johns. That worked until I upgraded to a shell suit.
As far as the dry suit itself, it took some getting used to. First thing I noticed was the drag, not nearly as streamlined as a wet suit. Second thing was managing the air and learning not to put too much air into the suit.
As far as the dry suit itself, it took some getting used to. First thing I noticed was the drag, not nearly as streamlined as a wet suit. Second thing was managing the air and learning not to put too much air into the suit.
Last edited by Sea of Green on Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sea of Green
Re: Drysuit training
GetWet wrote:Ugh.
I try to keep a positive attitude, I really do enjoy diving. But since I need a buddy to do everything I hate the fact that I have to suck up someone else's time while I remember that "all I have to do is turn to the right" to let some air out of my dry suit. This all sounds so easy, and I am sometimes justs flat out embarrassed by how slow I am to 'get' this. If this was any of the other hobbies I have I would simply go off in a corner and repeat ad infinitum until I got it and would not have to waste anyone else's time while I simply got it through my pea brain that duh you are not adding any air any where when you are ascending. In my case I have an empty BC, am trying to have an empty dry suit and am corking like mad, grabbing onto what ever poor thing there is on the bottom to hold me down and not really having very much fun at this point, and often just giving up.
Sigh... Thanks for the feed back. I will keep trying.
Our time is being wasted when we dive? Huh? Boils down to a few simple things. Leave you exhaust valve all the way open, only put enough air in the suit to keep if from squeezing, use your BC for buoyancy. As you ascend, when you start to feel a little too buoyant, simple roll to the right to exhaust enough air from your suit. I don't know if you do a lot of shore diving, but it's a little easier to master these skills if you have just a slow crawl towards the surface, rather than a straight-up ascent.
Other questions that come to mind - What type of drysuit are you using? What type of undergaments are you using with your drysuit? What type of tank are you using, e.g. Al or steel? (Al tanks are much more buoyant than steel when empty). Do you have trouble descending? (If so, you may be underweighted).
Re: Drysuit training
All good stuff! Thanks! I have to tell you, I met with the DUI rep recently, John someone from San Diego, and he gave me some good pointers that I was able to successfully implement. But I'll respond to your questions, because they are all spot on.
Leave you exhaust valve all the way open,
Yeah, this one took me a couple of dives to remember to keep doing. I do it now, and my buddy (hubby) then asks if I did it!
only put enough air in the suit to keep if from squeezing,
I start with air in my suit. Then when I want to decend, I vent till I start. I usually don't have to add much air to my suit until I'm at 20' or so.
use your BC for buoyancy.
I didn't get any open water training with my suit, so I've been sort of figuring this out on my own. I have found that there are lots of different oppinions. And I have found that I prefer to only have air in my suit. I typically only put air in my BC when I'm on the surface swimming. I've just figured that I need to focus on learning one way at a time, and at some point I will work out the details of the other way and decide which I like better.
As you ascend, when you start to feel a little too buoyant, simple roll to the right to exhaust enough air from your suit.
This was the brilliant advice of the DUI sales guy. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I know it seems simple, but I just wasn't getting it.
I don't know if you do a lot of shore diving, but it's a little easier to master these skills if you have just a slow crawl towards the surface, rather than a straight-up ascent.
Shore diving is primarily all I do. I did some boat diving in Mexico when I first started, but I was in a wet suit, and it was pretty easy. You are right, a slow crawl is is easiest. I've tried a variety of ascents, and some are better than others, and the one at Keystone was so awesome I came out of the water just laughing!
How fun is that?
What type of drysuit are you using? I never remember the name of the suit, It's a DUI suit, with the zipper across the back.
What type of undergaments are you using with your drysuit? A Weezle for cold water
What type of tank are you using, e.g. Al or steel? (Al tanks are much more buoyant than steel when empty). Steel 100's
Do you have trouble descending? (If so, you may be underweighted). No, I tried decreasing my weight a little but then when my tank was down to 600 psi I was too buoyant, so I bumped back up. I like my weight. I probably will be able to decrease weight sometime when I get comfortable and breath more easily, but for now, I'm good.
So.... I'm feeling like now I have a fair number of skills at my disposal, I really want hours in the water. Simple dives nothing too technical while I improve and get comfortable. Oh yeah, and did I mention have fun?
Leave you exhaust valve all the way open,
Yeah, this one took me a couple of dives to remember to keep doing. I do it now, and my buddy (hubby) then asks if I did it!
only put enough air in the suit to keep if from squeezing,
I start with air in my suit. Then when I want to decend, I vent till I start. I usually don't have to add much air to my suit until I'm at 20' or so.
use your BC for buoyancy.
I didn't get any open water training with my suit, so I've been sort of figuring this out on my own. I have found that there are lots of different oppinions. And I have found that I prefer to only have air in my suit. I typically only put air in my BC when I'm on the surface swimming. I've just figured that I need to focus on learning one way at a time, and at some point I will work out the details of the other way and decide which I like better.
As you ascend, when you start to feel a little too buoyant, simple roll to the right to exhaust enough air from your suit.
This was the brilliant advice of the DUI sales guy. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I know it seems simple, but I just wasn't getting it.
I don't know if you do a lot of shore diving, but it's a little easier to master these skills if you have just a slow crawl towards the surface, rather than a straight-up ascent.
Shore diving is primarily all I do. I did some boat diving in Mexico when I first started, but I was in a wet suit, and it was pretty easy. You are right, a slow crawl is is easiest. I've tried a variety of ascents, and some are better than others, and the one at Keystone was so awesome I came out of the water just laughing!
How fun is that?What type of drysuit are you using? I never remember the name of the suit, It's a DUI suit, with the zipper across the back.
What type of undergaments are you using with your drysuit? A Weezle for cold water
What type of tank are you using, e.g. Al or steel? (Al tanks are much more buoyant than steel when empty). Steel 100's
Do you have trouble descending? (If so, you may be underweighted). No, I tried decreasing my weight a little but then when my tank was down to 600 psi I was too buoyant, so I bumped back up. I like my weight. I probably will be able to decrease weight sometime when I get comfortable and breath more easily, but for now, I'm good.
So.... I'm feeling like now I have a fair number of skills at my disposal, I really want hours in the water. Simple dives nothing too technical while I improve and get comfortable. Oh yeah, and did I mention have fun?
Re: Drysuit training
Ok, Here's where I'm at thanks to Gratefuldivers suggestion. Be proactive on my ascent. So on my last 2 dives this week-end I moved my air from my DS to my BC before I got above 35 ft. The point he made to me is that my BC is much more able to dump air quickly than my DS, and responds faster. Yeah, I've learned that the hard way! I was able on 2 dives Sat and Sun to dive in 10 ft of water at 8 ft with no problem! Awesome!
I realize that as I've been trying to exclusively manage air in my DS I have not been getting used to having air in my BC, so that is taking a little getting used to, but I am now, not corking! and I am feeling MUCH more in control.
NOW I have to work on trim.
Should I be decending ~15ft, then getting trim? Thendecending to where I want to be? I need to quit dropping to the bottom. I also tend to swim in a negative position, so that needs some work. If only there were a mirror I could swim by somewhere!
Thanks again for the encouragement and tips...
I realize that as I've been trying to exclusively manage air in my DS I have not been getting used to having air in my BC, so that is taking a little getting used to, but I am now, not corking! and I am feeling MUCH more in control.
NOW I have to work on trim.
Should I be decending ~15ft, then getting trim? Thendecending to where I want to be? I need to quit dropping to the bottom. I also tend to swim in a negative position, so that needs some work. If only there were a mirror I could swim by somewhere!
Thanks again for the encouragement and tips...
Re: Drysuit training
shooting a video and reviewing it later is a big help. do you have an underwater point and shoot that takes video? if not, there are plenty of folks on this forum you could probably hook up with that could help, including me.GetWet wrote: If only there were a mirror I could swim by somewhere!
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Penopolypants
- NWDC Moderator
- Posts: 3906
- Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:37 pm
Re: Drysuit training
Excellent news, Melissa! I"m glad to hear that the pointers worked.
As far as that "mirror" is concerned, video is the best option. If you can, dive with someone willing to take video of you. What you feel in the water may not be what you're actually doing - for instance, a lot of people feel like they are nose diving when they are actually finally diving in a horizontal position.
Sometimes it can be hard to watch (I was diving like that?!?!
), but video is invaluable in that regard. My point and shoot takes decent video, so if we can ever dive together I'll be happy to take some.
As far as that "mirror" is concerned, video is the best option. If you can, dive with someone willing to take video of you. What you feel in the water may not be what you're actually doing - for instance, a lot of people feel like they are nose diving when they are actually finally diving in a horizontal position.
Sometimes it can be hard to watch (I was diving like that?!?!
), but video is invaluable in that regard. My point and shoot takes decent video, so if we can ever dive together I'll be happy to take some.Come to the nerd side, we have pi!