On digressions, jokes, and beer ...

[Grateful Diver]

I'd like to get a sense of whether or not anybody else feels as I do about the amount of digression on NWDC.

While I appreciate the comaraderie, it's getting harder and harder to post anything serious here, or get any topic to remain on topic. Seems like virtually every thread quickly gets buried in inside jokes, discussions about beer, or just nonsense ... to the point where it's difficult to maintain a conversation about the topic the thread was intended for.

Since this usually involves the most active posters here I gotta ask ... is this what y'all really want?

Social interaction is all well and good ... in fact, I like it as much as anybody. But it's annoying as all hell to post something looking for specific information, only to have the thread turned upside down to the point where the original intent gets lost.

This has happened on the last several threads I've posted here.

Does anyone else find this really annoying?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[enchantmentdivi]

I'm not sure I'm to the point where I am annoyed by it, but I have noticed exactly what you are talking about.

The end result of it for me is that I stop reading most threads...probably prematurely....because the banter starts, the next 10-12 posts on the thread are off topic or inside jokes that make me feel completely out of the loop, etc. Intermixed in all of that are real responses to the topic at hand, but I miss most of those because I have moved on. It also makes researching a thread for specific information really difficult when one has to sift through all of it.

[Scubak]

Bob Wrote; "Social interaction is all well and good ... in fact, I like it as much as anybody. But it's annoying as all hell to post something looking for specific information, only to have the thread turned upside down to the point where the original intent gets lost."

EnchantmentDivi wrote: "The end result of it for me is that I stop reading most threads...probably prematurely....because the banter starts, the next 10-12 posts on the thread are off topic or inside jokes that make me feel completely out of the loop, etc. Intermixed in all of that are real responses to the topic at hand, but I miss most of those because I have moved on. It also makes researching a thread for specific information really difficult when one has to sift through all of it.


I have to agree with both of you on this topic...
Gets a bit annoying when the thread becomes the latest topic for inside jokes, beer and whatnot!
I just stop reading the thread. There are only a couple of headings that I look at anymore on this board.
Kirsten

[spatman]

hi bob

i sincerely apologize if my contribution to the hijacks is annoying to some folks and derails conversations. personally, i skim over anything i don't want to read to get to the items that interest me, but i can certainly understand that others get frustrated by it and move on to other areas.

the camaraderie on this site is one of the things that make this forum special to me and other folks. it even spills out into real life as well, which transforms the internet friendships made into real ones. it's also nice that a little levity is returning to NWDC after a period of some polarization and even animosity.

however, i will be more respectful of the original poster's intent and not contribute to anyone's loss of interest in a subject or even this forum. this is a great site with great people, and i certainly don't want to lose anybody here.

thanks for voicing your concerns, and i hope we can keep the beer jokes down to a minimum.

[Fishstiq]

As the victim of many of the hijacks in question, I couldn't agree with you more!

In addition, does it seem like there's a little A.D.D. involved? It seems like there are 3-4 serious answers at first, but if a topic goes much further than that, it becomes pretty chaotic. Just a thought...

[Norris]

Yes and I have been in MANY forums groups and still do belong to many. I've moderated a few as well and that is usually the most difficult part is keeping things on track within specifically defined areas.
I assume that is why you opened an everything else area so people can freestyle, and just have fun. I think its a great group and I find myself laughing out loud pretty often. However; when I am actually researching something on here, it takes a lot of work to filter through the fun.
Me being a jokster myself am generally looking for an opening to make someone smile and unfortunately the "everything else" area doesn't get as may posts as the other areas, and this is why people that have the same disease as I, most likely have to hijack other posts to fulfill their need to make someone laugh.
So when this gets out of hand, its just my opinion, that you remind everyone the "guidelines" of the board and from what I have seen there are so many decent people on here that Im certain everyone will heed the suggestion. Maybe even ask of people dont mind that you trim some of the really good discussions out there?

2 cents

[Nwbrewer]

The quirky nature of this board is why I hang out here. The fact that the moderators here use such a light hand keep it entertaining. I read back over some of the "de-railed" threads, and I think part of the reason they go a little off track is that most of us have read these questions countless times over here, on the nwdiver board, SB, RW, TDS, where ever. It gets redundant.

What makes this board unique and fun is the fact that MANY of the divers here actually know each other, and dive together. This isn't just a board, it's the board for a dive club. As I understand it, the original intent of this board was not to be some sort of knowledge repository, or a place to learn everything there is to learn about SCUBA.

I'd be in favor of the occasional friendly reminder to keep things on track if they go to far, but the occasional digression is what keeps me actually reading this board, as opposed to the others. Just my 2psi.

Jake

[Joshua Smith]

As a moderator on this board, I usually turn a blind eye to hijacks. Partly because I'm directly responsible for a certain percentage of them, and partly because they can be a lot of fun. I will say this, however: If someone feels a particular thread is going off the rails, TO THE GENERAL DETRIMENT OF THE COMMUNITY, please PM me, John, Val, or Tom. Calvin, too, if you want, but he's not around here as much as the rest of us- I will take a close look at the problem, and see what I can do about it. I'll be the first one to admit I don't actually read every thread on this, or any other, site.

This applies to threads I'm actively participating in- even hijacks. I'll be happy to consider self-moderation, if it's warranted.

[WylerBear]

I also stop reading when the hijack comments get boring which for me only takes a couple. I'm finding that I'm reading fewer and fewer threads because of it. Not that I don't still enjoy this board but my time is fairly valuable and trying to way thru a bunch of inside jokes isn't how I choose to spend my time.

[Joshua Smith]

I also stop reading when the hijack comments get boring which for me only takes a couple. I'm finding that I'm reading fewer and fewer threads because of it. Not that I don't still enjoy this board but my time is fairly valuable and trying to way thru a bunch of inside jokes isn't how I choose to spend my time.

I do understand this point of view. But I also understand where the threadjackin' pirates are coming from.

Like I said- if it's very much detracting from the community, PM me. If it's just a little irritating, I'm inclined to let it slide. Can we work to find some middle ground, here?

[Grateful Diver]

The quirky nature of this board is why I hang out here. The fact that the moderators here use such a light hand keep it entertaining. I read back over some of the "de-railed" threads, and I think part of the reason they go a little off track is that most of us have read these questions countless times over here, on the nwdiver board, SB, RW, TDS, where ever. It gets redundant.

Hmmm ... the last coupla times it happened to me were when I was (a) trying to set up a gas management seminar and (b) trying to get information about a DR can light.

Somehow I don't think those are exactly what you'd call repetitive topics. Furthermore, the digression made it virtually impossible to get the information the thread was intended to get.

For all intents and purposes, this board is becoming useless for anything EXCEPT banter. And again, I can appreciate the social nature of the board, but it's gotten to the point where it's nothing BUT social.

Just wanted to see if that's what y'all really intended. Apparently it is ... so I'll just have to take my more purposeful posts elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Joshua Smith]

The quirky nature of this board is why I hang out here. The fact that the moderators here use such a light hand keep it entertaining. I read back over some of the "de-railed" threads, and I think part of the reason they go a little off track is that most of us have read these questions countless times over here, on the nwdiver board, SB, RW, TDS, where ever. It gets redundant.

Hmmm ... the last coupla times it happened to me were when I was (a) trying to set up a gas management seminar and (b) trying to get information about a DR can light.

Somehow I don't think those are exactly what you'd call repetitive topics. Furthermore, the digression made it virtually impossible to get the information the thread was intended to get.

For all intents and purposes, this board is becoming useless for anything EXCEPT banter. And again, I can appreciate the social nature of the board, but it's gotten to the point where it's nothing BUT social.

Just wanted to see if that's what y'all really intended. Apparently it is ... so I'll just have to take my more purposeful posts elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob- did you see, or take the time to read, the two posts I wrote previously in this thread? I have no indication that you did. I'm the one who cleaned up your "Gas management Seminar" thread within *minutes* of your request, remember?

I would have been happy to do the same thing with your Dive Rite can light thread, if you had even asked me to. On review, that thread hardly seems mangled beyond recognition, however.

[Sounder]

I definitely hold responsibility for my fair share of hijacks too. Sometimes they're just plain funny, and other times they become "over the top/too much." I'll temper my contributions to them and apologize to those I've annoyed.

[Joshua Smith]

For all intents and purposes, this board is becoming useless for anything EXCEPT banter. And again, I can appreciate the social nature of the board, but it's gotten to the point where it's nothing BUT social.

Just wanted to see if that's what y'all really intended. Apparently it is ... so I'll just have to take my more purposeful posts elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm having a hard time swallowing this, Bob. Why are you doing it here, instead of talking to your friends, who actually run this "useless" site?

[Grateful Diver]

Yes, you're right, Josh ... please excuse my grumpiness. I've been cooped up in the house for two days with a bad cold. My last post wasn't reasonable. What can I say ... I get a little crazy when I ain't diving.

I think I'll try just putting a request at the top of a thread when I want it to not digress ... asking that it not. Most folks here are respectful enough to understand, I think.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[dsteding]

I love the digressions here, it took me a while to stop taking myself so seriously here, but now that I have, I find things funny. To me it makes more sense to just go with the flow, otherwise, I guess it is like stepping into a room at a party where there is some, err, wacky stuff being done. If you dig that stuff, wade into it, otherwise, just move along . . .

[Joshua Smith]

Yes, you're right, Josh ... please excuse my grumpiness. I've been cooped up in the house for two days with a bad cold. My last post wasn't reasonable. What can I say ... I get a little crazy when I ain't diving.

I think I'll try just putting a request at the top of a thread when I want it to not digress ... asking that it not. Most folks here are respectful enough to understand, I think.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks, Bob. We try to "non-moderate" around here, but if it's causing a more experienced diver such as yourself heartburn, I'll come in with a big mod-stick and clear the jokers out for you. You have my cell number, call me if you need something. Or PM.

This applies to anyone-really. We had a member trying to sell some pretty cool home-made lights a while ago, and his thread got trampled. Can the Pirates please use just a little bit of discretion when boarding threads? Here's a hint: Sometimes it's OK, but other times, it's not. Only you can make the call.

[Scubak]

Bob Wrote then modified, "For all intents and purposes, this board is becoming useless for anything EXCEPT banter. And again, I can appreciate the social nature of the board, but it's gotten to the point where it's nothing BUT social.

Just wanted to see if that's what y'all really intended. Apparently it is ... so I'll just have to take my more purposeful posts elsewhere."

I know Bob said that he is suffering from a cold and what not and re-tracted his post but he is right!

I don't post much anymore, no pics, no questions, no dive reports or vis reports, no help to newbies on gear or dive sites or what ever cuz what ever some one has to say gets lost in all the rubbish that comes from the banter, stupid jokes and c#@p!
I only read a couple of forums. Sorry, but that is my opinion.
I think this board could be a very good, informative board. I am not asking for more moderation, just a bit of personal mature restraint. It's just that the class clowns are taking over and the ones that want to learn/ need to learn...well, they cannot because of the background noise.
Just my opinion...
Please keep posting the vis thread cuz that's the only one, it seems, that ain't been hijacked and is the most useful on here anymore!
Kirsten

[Tom Nic]

As a moderator I've never thought that it was part of my job description to prevent hi-jackings. It is a huge part of my job description to try and help folks be civil and flash a badge when they are not civil. Things have been rather quiet around here lately in that regard - noticed and appreciated BTW, and for the most part you know who you are. I'll take a good thread hi-jacking over an agency or diving philosophy urinating contest anyday.

Sometimes the hi-jackings have simply helped lighten things up somewhat, and I will admit to belly laughs and almost spewing my beverage on a key-board at some of the antics. From that standpoint I think they have even been somewhat helpful. Some of the pirates on this board are amazingly creative, and from that angle you have my respect! :hello2:

At the same time, If I was trying to sell something or get some specific widget or piece of information I can really see how that would be frustrating, however. As Josh said, if your boat is being boarded, a PM or two will generally solve the problem pretty quick. It's quick and easy to "dump" inane posts that were just simply verbal silliness without infringing on people's free speech!

If we become too straightlaced or encyclopedic as a board I think we miss something pretty special, however. As has been said, we are a place for divers to meet and organize, not just a place to buy & sell things or get information. The later can happen with the banter of a social community as well, IMO. And has been said before, if something gets out of hand a quick PM will take care of it pretty quickly.

[Tom Nic]

I don't post much anymore, no pics, no questions, no dive reports or vis reports, no help to newbies on gear or dive sites or what ever cuz what ever some one has to say gets lost in all the rubbish that comes from the banter, stupid jokes and c#@p!
Kirsten

That makes me kind of sad, and while I certainly respect your feelings and your right to spend your internet time how you choose, it sort of bums me out. We are "poorer" as a result. I've heard of plenty of folks leaving a board because of bs and rants and arguing over dive philosphy, agencies, etc. This is the first time I've ever heard of people leaving a board because of "the banter, stupid jokes and c#@p". But my guess is that this thread probably will have a dampening effect on the clowning and hijacks that you've mentioned - mostly because I don't think the folks doing the hi-jackings have any desire to affect people that way.

[Joshua Smith]

I'm pretty discouraged to hear all the negative stuff about this board, here. I feel, at least a little bit, personally responible for that. I dislike the boards that are full of know-it-alls, where every new topic is met by a "use the search button, you idiot" response. And I dislike the dry-as-toast attitude I find on some sites. But, it's eye-opening to see the number of people who are turned off by the banter around here. But I can see how it would be irritating, I suppose. I try to catch all the sincere posts by newer divers, and make sure they're getting the best advice we can provide, as a community.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm kind of depressed that there are a significant number of people that want to get rid of the off-topic posts. Is it possible for us, as a community, to self-regulate? Is there any way to keep everyone happy with this site? Sadly, I fear there may not be. Nuking every off-topic post, splitting every thread that contains multiple concepts into two, three, or twenty five, different threads- is beyond anything I will be a part of.

Any ideas out there? Should I start some kind of poll, asking "the community" how to deal with this? What do we do if nobody agrees with the poll?

[Joshua Smith]

As a moderator I've never thought that it was part of my job description to prevent hi-jackings. It is a huge part of my job description to try and help folks be civil and flash a badge when they are not civil. Things have been rather quiet around here lately in that regard - noticed and appreciated BTW, and for the most part you know who you are. I'll take a good thread hi-jacking over an agency or diving philosophy urinating contest anyday.

Sometimes the hi-jackings have simply helped lighten things up somewhat, and I will admit to belly laughs and almost spewing my beverage on a key-board at some of the antics. From that standpoint I think they have even been somewhat helpful. Some of the pirates on this board are amazingly creative, and from that angle you have my respect! :hello2:

At the same time, If I was trying to sell something or get some specific widget or piece of information I can really see how that would be frustrating, however. As Josh said, if your boat is being boarded, a PM or two will generally solve the problem pretty quick. It's quick and easy to "dump" inane posts that were just simply verbal silliness without infringing on people's free speech!

If we become too straightlaced or encyclopedic as a board I think we miss something pretty special, however. As has been said, we are a place for divers to meet and organize, not just a place to buy & sell things or get information. The later can happen with the banter of a social community as well, IMO. And has been said before, if something gets out of hand a quick PM will take care of it pretty quickly.

I should have talked to Tom before my last post- he's better at this kind of thing than me.

[dwashbur]

Most of the time I don't mind the digressions. Being a lifelong ADD'er, my mind tends to be one big digression anyway. And I've found that when the topic relates to my favorite subject (okay, my second favorite subject ), critter identification, things generally stay on track.

Incidentally, speaking of digressions, we made it home okay and are slowly recovering from the 12-hour drive. 30 years ago those kinds of trips didn't bother me; I wonder what changed................

[Tom Nic]

That makes me kind of sad, ....it sort of bums me out.

I'm pretty discouraged to hear all the negative stuff about this board, here.
I don't know what the answer is, but I'm kind of depressed....
Is there any way to keep everyone happy with this site? Sadly, I fear there may not be.

OK, that's it.

All of us highly paid and highly compensated Moderators need some group therapy or a hug or something.

I'm done, viz is awesome around the Sound, time to go diving! :rr:

[Penopolypants]

I <3 hijacks.

The lack of a stifling atmosphere is one of the things I enjoy most about this board. These are stressful times….I love it that I can go somewhere that I can find useful information while giggling. Was the purpose of this board ever "information only"? I don't think so, and I certainly hope it isn't headed that way!

If you are looking for information without the consequences of human social interaction (humor, distractions, opposing points of view, pissing matches), then perhaps other sources would be more appropriate than a public forum on the internet. A forum that happens to be dedicated to a very social sport, and all of the baggage that goes with that.