Mukilteo Lighthouse Park - NO diving?

[CaptnJack]

Last time I went there I used very little beach. I walked across it twice like any other user. I don't think this rule will stand up in court as they have no legitimate public interest in prohibiting diving but not any other form of water based recreation there, swimming. I imagine a zone around the boat ramp (e.g within 300ft) is a legitimate public interest but the entire beach does not meet that test.

I will write them a letter as well.

[Joshua Smith]

Exactly. We don't use a heck of a lot of beach, and we don't use it for very long. This ruling is ridiculous.

[Rockfish]

I don't make very many comments on this forum or others but I've been on a slow burn about this since I read it and I feel compelled to comment. I prefer to observe from the bleachers so to speak.

I've been diving the Mukilteo area for 20 years now. We used to have 3 access points for shore diving and now 2 are gone (the old oil dock access now removed for Sounder train service and now the park).

When McConnell's boat house was sold and before the hotel was built we lost access to the t-dock. I was part of a group of divers that went before the city council and asked for access to be restored to the t-dock. It took us about 3 months before we could legally dive that site. Now due to this decision we are left with one site.

After reading the note from the parks department again it just goes to show that they have no idea of who was using the old park and what space they take up. I thought that the park was supposed to be available to all not just some. We scuba divers take up very little space.

As I am writing this I was just thinking about the hundreds of grade school children that we have supported over the years by bringing up specimens for their beach field trips so that they could get a glimpse of some of the local sea life and because of this short sighted and poorly thought out decision we will no longer be able to do this. The area by the Silver Cloud inn will not support the same number of students that the park does. This is a group whose help we could enlist so if you have ever done a dive for your local school at the park please have them call or write the parks department. Maybe after they see that they are affecting children they might change their mind.

Ok back to the bleachers for me now.

Thanks,

Mike

When they outlaw scuba diving only outlaws will be able to scuba dive.

[Nwbrewer]

Very eloquent Rockfish. Please don't return to the bleachers until after you have written a similar letter to the city. Thanks.

Jake

[Joshua Smith]

Very eloquent Rockfish. Please don't return to the bleachers until after you have written a similar letter to the city. Thanks.

Jake

What Jake said. Glad you chimed in. I'm going to make this issue a personal mission- every municipality around the Sound is trying to remove the few shore diving sites we have left- we really need to organize and push back. I'm going to look into joining the the WSA, despite the fact that I'm allergic to joining groups. We divers are a strange little minority group when it comes to "organizing."

[wascuba40]

It's good to read that many object passionately to closing this dive site to shore diving. The many small holes and crevaces of the ever changing clay walls offered many critters a unique place to call home. The beach goers we encountered while diving this site were never annoyed with the parking spot or picnic table we occupied, rather they were more curious with what we saw or what it was like to SCUBA dive. And we never took up more space than any other park patron. Write your letters, inform your dive clubs, support WSA, and hopefully together we can reverse the loss of another dive site.

[Joshua Smith]

It's good to read that many object passionately to closing this dive site to shore diving. The many small holes and crevaces of the ever changing clay walls offered many critters a unique place to call home. The beach goers we encountered while diving this site were never annoyed with the parking spot or picnic table we occupied, rather they were more curious with what we saw or what it was like to SCUBA dive. And we never took up more space than any other park patron. Write your letters, inform your dive clubs, support WSA, and hopefully together we can reverse the loss of another dive site.

Can I get a "hallelujah?" Well said. I love this dive site, and I'm absolutely appalled at the sudden, random closure of it. Together, I hope we divers can reverse this appalling new "law".

[scuba-911]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. It's great to read how passionate everyone is about our sport in general as well as this particular site, and it's also good to know I didn't just totally miss it. Sounds like the new rule closing the park to shore diving is news to everyone. Lighthouse Park is "in our backyard', so to speak, and we've made many enjoyable dives there. We had a good time with our Rescue course and enjoyed the site well enough to map it for our DM project. On all occasions, any contact we had with other park patrons was nothing but positive. They were always curious as to what we were doing and what we saw and we never took up more than our fare share of park space. It's definitely a shame that the Parks department saw fit to lump our sport in with criminal behavior! I don't like to leap to the immediate conclusion that there's any evil conspiracy at work when something like this happens. I really want to believe it was just an uneducated decision made on the fly without input from anyone who might actually know what they're talking about. That being the case, I'm hopeful that with a dilligent but respectful email/letter/phone call campaign, we might be able to get this turned around. I encourage everyone to write to the city and express your feelings. Also, please let your clubs and local dive shops know. As many of you have pointed out, we sure seem to be losing shore diving sites at an alarming rate. I fully intend to write my own letter and actively see where else I can take this to get it resolved. Thanks again for your feedback and support!

Andy

[Diver_C]

Ridiculous.

Our park rules were updated this past year and it is now stated that there is no shore diving from Lighthouse Park beach area. This is due to safety concerns regarding the boat launch area right there and all the equipment on the beach with the amount of users on the beach and at high tide, there is very little beach. Lighthouse Park just completed the first of 4 Phases of renovations. This first Phase created new picnic shelters, a playground for kids, restrooms, volleyball court, walkways,… which has generated even higher uses of the beach area. We are also now renting out the picnic shelters for large picnics and weddings which has increased the park use. Diving is allowed in the area at the Mukilteo Community Beach next to the Silver Cloud (796 Front Street).

Thank you
Jennifer Berner
Recreation Manager
City of Mukilteo

[Joshua Smith]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. It's great to read how passionate everyone is about our sport in general as well as this particular site, and it's also good to know I didn't just totally miss it. Sounds like the new rule closing the park to shore diving is news to everyone. Lighthouse Park is "in our backyard', so to speak, and we've made many enjoyable dives there. We had a good time with our Rescue course and enjoyed the site well enough to map it for our DM project. On all occasions, any contact we had with other park patrons was nothing but positive. They were always curious as to what we were doing and what we saw and we never took up more than our fare share of park space. It's definitely a shame that the Parks department saw fit to lump our sport in with criminal behavior! I don't like to leap to the immediate conclusion that there's any evil conspiracy at work when something like this happens. I really want to believe it was just an uneducated decision made on the fly without input from anyone who might actually know what they're talking about. That being the case, I'm hopeful that with a dilligent but respectful email/letter/phone call campaign, we might be able to get this turned around. I encourage everyone to write to the city and express your feelings. Also, please let your clubs and local dive shops know. As many of you have pointed out, we sure seem to be losing shore diving sites at an alarming rate. I fully intend to write my own letter and actively see where else I can take this to get it resolved. Thanks again for your feedback and support!


Absolutely, and I agree 100%. Thanks for participating here, and let's all let the city know what a stupid, ill informed decision they have made! (In a polite, respectfull, professional manner, of course!)

Andy

[CaptnJack]

I am willing to start with letters and hopefully the Parks Dept in cooperation with that Mayor will get this issue before the City Council for a rewrite expeditiously. If not, I am more than willing to have a "dive-in" with the intent of getting cited so that we can take this arbitrary exclusion to court.

Oh and by the way, they don't even own the water...

[Joshua Smith]

I am willing to start with letters and hopefully the Parks Dept in cooperation with that Mayor will get this issue before the City Council for a rewrite expeditiously. If not, I am more than willing to have a "dive-in" with the intent of getting cited so that we can take this arbitrary exclusion to court.

Oh and by the way, they don't even own the water...

Same here. And, fwiw, I'm sure I can dig up enough OC gear to dive with you, as an act of solidarity! (We need a "Wink" smiley, don't we?)

Seriously, if it comes to that, a "Dive in" would be pretty cool- I'd be there for it.

[bigsky]

i am in
the first annual mukilteo dive in
saturday, march 7th

the tides are good from 7:00 am till noon

[H20doctor]

Well the state park side is used for Deep diving, and my long lost dive friend chris connelly went to 380 feet there for his test. So the tech peeps should also want to keep this site open .

[rjw]

the first annual mukilteo dive in
saturday, march 7th


I'm in.

[Grateful Diver]

I am willing to start with letters and hopefully the Parks Dept in cooperation with that Mayor will get this issue before the City Council for a rewrite expeditiously. If not, I am more than willing to have a "dive-in" with the intent of getting cited so that we can take this arbitrary exclusion to court.

Oh and by the way, they don't even own the water...

As I was reading this thread my thoughts were ... "I wonder what would happen if two or three hundred divers were to just show up and go diving" ...

Sometimes these things just require you to make your presence felt ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Nwbrewer]

i am in
the first annual mukilteo dive in
saturday, march 7th

the tides are good from 7:00 am till noon

Folks, please don't do this quite yet. This is the sort of activity that will cause the city to dig in their heels. Let's see how they react to a week or so of letter writing, and if that goes nowhere, we can get all who would like to participate in a dive in to show up to a Mukilteo city council meeting. If that fails a dive-in may be a good idea, but we are probably better off to obey the "rule" while trying to get it changed.

Jake

[gcbryan]

i am in
the first annual mukilteo dive in
saturday, march 7th

the tides are good from 7:00 am till noon

Folks, please don't do this quite yet. This is the sort of activity that will cause the city to dig in their heels. Let's see how they react to a week or so of letter writing, and if that goes nowhere, we can get all who would like to participate in a dive in to show up to a Mukilteo city council meeting. If that fails a dive-in may be a good idea, but we are probably better off to obey the "rule" while trying to get it changed.

Jake

My thoughts exactly. I am stunned by how quickly this dive was taken away from us however. I've never been a big fan of the T-dock but I've always really liked this site.

[dieseldude]

I may be asking for a fine but I have to admit to diving here last weekend-state patrol rolled through & did not bother me-I was was on surface interval so there was no question about what I was doing there. I had several curious people come and talk to me. I was also here 3 weeks ago. 2 dives that day & there was a small group of people diving that offloaded right next to the boat launch-they only did 1 dive-Apparently I missed the sign prohibiting diving-I'm curious to what extent they enforce this rule. I only did 1 dive here last weekend & then rolled over to T-dock for dive 2(I got bored)
I was actually looking forward to diving the lighthouse itself-guess now I won't. If they insist on banning us from the beach it would sure be nice if theyd provide at least a similiar restroom fascility & more adequate parking(one of the motivators for not doing T-Dock)I have been met with rude reception when using the Ferry restroom. How much is the fine for violating this & will it result in an arrest??
MJ

[Peter Guy]

Thanks for bringing this up -- and I think many (most/all?) have missed some other important parts of this. From the City Council Minutes when this was adopted:

Councilmember Tinsley suggested that the information about scuba diving at the Mukilteo Community Beach (Rule #27) listed under Community Center Park be moved to another place because there is no water at the Community Center. Ms. Berner noted that there is now a permit process for scuba diving at the Community Beach Park and that staff would work on signage to notify users of the permit requirement.
Motion: To approve Resolution 2008-25, adopting revised Park Rules with the revisions discussed.
Motion By: Tinsley
Seconded By: Grafer
Action: PASS 6-0
Vote: Ayes: Emery, Grafer, Gregerson, Stoltz, Tmsley, Vandemielen

The City Council was quite aware that it was prohibiting Scuba diving at the Park but the minutes don't give any of the reasons why this was done.

In addition to the prohibition of Scuba diving at the Park, did you all notice that one must have a "Special Event Permit" if you are doing any "commercial" training (or an "organization" doing training) at the Community Beach Park? Interesting that they didn't provide that option for Mukilteo. Also interesting that snorkeling (swimming) is not prohibited, just Scuba diving. (Hmmm, what would happen if one "swam" out and THEN put on the tanks, or even then put the reg in one's mouth while IN THE WATER -- OR if one used a scooter (i.e. a "boat") to go out and THEN dive?)

BTW, I agree that attempting to work with the City to ease up the restrictions is the way to go rather than a "Dive In." We need to find out what were the REAL objections/problems so that reasonable solutions can be had. In addition, I think we (the Diving Community) need to find out why commercial or organization "training dives" are prohibited without a Special Event Permit. What is the purpose? What problem were they attempting to solve?

Peter Rothschild

PS Anyone here actually know any of the City Council or are friends with people who do know them? "Quiet Diplomacy" in these situations has a tendency to work best I think.

[John Rawlings]

I may be asking for a fine but I have to admit to diving here last weekend-state patrol rolled through & did not bother me-I was was on surface interval so there was no question about what I was doing there. I had several curious people come and talk to me. I was also here 3 weeks ago. 2 dives that day & there was a small group of people diving that offloaded right next to the boat launch-they only did 1 dive-Apparently I missed the sign prohibiting diving-I'm curious to what extent they enforce this rule. I only did 1 dive here last weekend & then rolled over to T-dock for dive 2(I got bored)
I was actually looking forward to diving the lighthouse itself-guess now I won't. If they insist on banning us from the beach it would sure be nice if theyd provide at least a similiar restroom fascility & more adequate parking(one of the motivators for not doing T-Dock)I have been met with rude reception when using the Ferry restroom. How much is the fine for violating this & will it result in an arrest??
MJ

Yes....I know of many divers that have dived at the park over the past few months after the renovation was completed. That's one of the reasons that this came as such a shock. I have yet to meet a diver that knew about this closure. this simply isn't making any sense to me. If anything, I would have predicted an attempt to close the Silver Cloud dive site, since I know that the hotel does not like having crowds of noisy divers in "their" parking lot area, especially classes.

As I said above, I mailed a letter to the Mayor of Mukilteo yesterday. If and when I get a response I will post it in it's entirety here.

I have a good friend that attends Church with the Mayor. He is going to query him about this if he sees him on Sunday.

- John

[fmerkel]

I'd have to support Jake on this.

Having worked with the City and Parks Dept. over the Water Taxi issue I can assure you that they have might on their side, and feel like they have the 'right'. They also have to consider overall public safety for the largest # of people for a public use facility. Right now it seems like they see the mixed use of a boat ramp and Scuba as a potential danger, same as the Taxi issue. A small scale protest will not change their minds. These are process and procedure based folks-their jobs depend on it, and their mentality is geared towards it.

To see it any other way they have to be 'courted' a bit, and the danger has to be proven other wise. A few divers showing up for a protest dive in is not going to be seen in a positive light. The outlaw/protest diver is just going to be seen as a nut case. You will make their case for them.

You really have to clearly indicate your concerns using the acceptable pathways (writing, show up at town meetings, call the appropriate people). If that doesn't work then you can maybe consider stepping up the pressure a bit but you better be damn sure you have a good turnout-something REALLY hard (I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD)to do with the dive community. And you need to TELL them you are doing a protest dive, when, where, why, and be fully ready to be ticketed/arrested. Otherwise it's a wasted effort.

If you are having a good time expressing your anger in this forum but have not done the necessary homework to create a dialogue of legitimate concerns as a citizen with the appropriate concerned authorities then you may be doing more harm than good. I wish it was otherwise but that's the way it seems to be.

Fritz

[nwscubamom]

In addition, I think we (the Diving Community) need to find out why commercial or organization "training dives" are prohibited without a Special Event Permit. What is the purpose? What problem were they attempting to solve?

I'm another one for NOT HOLDING A DIVE IN!

Although it might seem like a good solution, it could jeopardize the relationship and reputation that WSA has (and is continuously trying to build) with city and state officials and agencies in regards to showing that divers are, as a whole, a pretty good upstanding bunch of citizens who care about the marine environment (and the law).

Let's try going about this in a different manner, as has already been suggested - that of trying to discuss reasonably. I've been trying to get a hold of Mike Racine to see if he has any contacts in Mukilteo or has any ideas how to approach this. A huge thanks to all of you so far who've been writing letters to state your opinions about this.

As far as the 'special permit' goes, that also holds true of State Parks. If you bring a class to a state park, you must hold a permit to teach your class there. I think it's because it's a commercial enterprise.

- Janna

[Sounder]

Next Council meeting appears to be Monday March 2nd as the one for this Monday was canceled due to the holiday. I am planning to attend.

There is some strategy to this folks... pushing back the wrong way will cause them to dig in their heels.

First, we can't have people calling and writing the Mayor and Council if they're going to be aggressive or insulting as this will get us nowhere. If you're going to write a letter, please be polite and phrase it with a tone of "let's make this work, together, for everyone" instead of "you're bastards and I'm diving anyway!!"

Do not do a "dive-in," at least, yet. IF that were to be organized, it would need to be planned to be effective. A few rogue divers aren't going to accomplish anything but piss the Council off.

Richard and Peter are on the right track. The questions that need to be raised are determining exactly what the new law is attempting to accomplish, and what the difference in public interest is between diving and swimming, snorkeling, fishing, etc. Moreover, John's point of likening scuba diving to drugs, assault on wildlife, public consumption of alcohol, etc. is a concern to raise as well.

Be aware, however, that scuba diving is not a protected class. The public interest "reason" doesn't have to be very strong. In contrast, if they wanted to prohibit wheelchairs from being on the beach, they would have to have a HUGE reason as disability is a protected class.

Here is my suggestion for a plan...

Our UNIFIED tone and message needs to be one of "cooperation." In other words, "how can WE work TOGETHER to ensure that any issues are addressed so that scuba diving can continue to occur." We're here to work WITH them, not against them. We need to learn what the reason they have is, and be respectful when they give it to us... even if it's something we consider ridiculous.

First, start with polite letters asking for information and expressing our sadness that this diving location was taken away from us. REMEMBER... DO NOT get aggressive or sarcastic. If you're an asshole in the least bit, you'll slam-shut doors that we need to keep open. ONE PERSON can ruin this for everyone... please don't be "that guy."

Next, I would suggest we show up to the Council meeting on the 2nd with a plan. We have certain people who are willing to talk, who can do so eloquently and politely, and we support with our numbers and applause. Peter, John, and Richard are examples of people I would suggest we have speak, if they are willing. I'm willing to speak as well. It might be advantageous to have someone like Ben from DiveXtras speak as well being a Mukilteo business owner.

Following these steps, we regroup and create the next plan while maintaining the spirit of cooperation with the City.

I am going to contact Councilman Tinsley to gather information surrounding why the decision was made and attempt to open some lines of communication with our community.

Remember folks, we CAN do this... but if someone botches it with a sarcastic or angry letter, or a phone call that doesn't go well, it could be over in a flash. Please phrase and write carefully and if you'd like someone to look over your letter before you send it, I'd highly recommend sending it to someone for review to ensure it's got the right tone.

[nwscubamom]