Mukilteo Lighthouse Park - NO diving?

[JAdam]

I am not familiar with this Dive sight or any really class starts Monday for my open water... But I was thinking that one of the biggest things on any politicization is the local economy.... Its the Mayors responsibility to the local business and community. If we present our case as lost revenue to the local community IE: grabbing a beer or dinner before heading to where we call home it might have some impact... Every beach community needs every tourist penny they can muster.
Sorry running out the door didn't have time to proof read

[Pez7378]

How about an alternative to the "Dive In" for those who are determined to show the city how many we are and how passionate we are about this, and other sites.

Imagine a whole bunch of Scuba Divers standing at the waters edge. Beach goers walk by as you gear up, and often enjoy watching the diver enter the water and submerge.

The divers are still standing by the waters edge. All geared up just looking out over the water.

Someone says, are you going in? The divers all respond, "Nope. It's against Park rules."

Maybe Sounder could get the local media involved.

Another idea is to have a whole bunch of divers there with their equipment just having a picnic. Curious people wander by and generally want to know about the scuba gear, the site, the critters etc. Yet another opportunity to inform park users that for some reason, it's now against the rules to dive there.

Serves the same purpose, and saves us all a citation.......If the police would even enforce such a rule.

[Nwbrewer]

How about an alternative to the "Dive In" for those who are determined to show the city how many we are and how passionate we are about this, and other sites.

Imagine a whole bunch of Scuba Divers standing at the waters edge. Beach goers walk by as you gear up, and often enjoy watching the diver enter the water and submerge.

The divers are still standing by the waters edge. All geared up just looking out over the water.

Someone says, are you going in? The divers all respond, "Nope. It's against Park rules."

Maybe Sounder could get the local media involved.

Another idea is to have a whole bunch of divers there with their equipment just having a picnic. Curious people wander by and generally want to know about the scuba gear, the site, the critters etc. Yet another opportunity to inform park users that for some reason, it's now against the rules to dive there.

Serves the same purpose, and saves us all a citation.......If the police would even enforce such a rule.

I've got a better alternative. How about a whole bunch of divers show up at the next city council meeting to plead our case. Pack the room. Perhaps a show of numbers at a city council meeting would show them just how much we care.

Jake

[Pez7378]

I've got a better alternative. How about a whole bunch of divers show up at the next city council meeting to plead our case. Pack the room. Perhaps a show of numbers at a city council meeting would show them just how much we care.

Jake

I've already written the city counsel and invited myself.

[Sounder]

If we need to play hardball, we can... But for now let's play it "cool and cooperative."

Let's plan something effective for the Council meeting and see how it turns out. With the right speakers, the right numbers, and a unified message of cooperation in an non-threatening manner, we can beat this.

I'd be glad to help coordinate things for the meeting... Let's keep the media in our back pocket, at least for now. It IS an option, but let's not go all-in on the first hand.

[CaptnJack]

I agree that starting with some nicely worded letters informing them of their "unintentional" mistake are in order. And attending the City Council meeting(s).

There is an RCW that prohibits restricting access to water via public lands. Its how the T-dock was required to stay open as "beach" - the City wanted to abandon that right-of-way and sell it. I am not sure the RCW's applicability but I will look it up and post it here shortly.

The dive-in concept is months down the road if they stonewall. Please respect the process, pissing off the City Council will just create more adversaries.

[nwscubamom]

Hmmm...I've got an idea that *might* lend some weight, not sure.

I pulled up the REEF data from that site. There have been 19 surveys regularly conducted there from 1999 to as recently as Feb 8, 2009. REEF is an organization of volunteer scuba divers attempting to help monitor the marine life in the area, and as such are also helping the Puget sound Partnership in cleaning up Puget Sound by 2020.

This has now blocked access to our volunteer divers who are helping with this ongoing project.

Maybe it would help if I included the data accumulated from those 19 surveys?

Does anyone have any photos from the site that show how special (I hate to use that trite word, but you know what I mean) the area is and how we need to continue monitoring it and be allowed access to not only monitor, but enjoy the area? Photos often really soften people up, and can speak volumes.

Unfortunately, I've never dove there, so no photos from my stockpile :(

I Googleygoogled the site today and came up with this - and I assume the entry/exit area is over by the boat ramp?


- Janna

[gcbryan]

The most common entry is out from the restrooms which I believe is the building toward the bottom of the picture from the boat ramp.

[Nwbrewer]

Entry is at the X, the Clay walls are more or less where I put the line. I have a bunch of pics form here, I'm sure others have better ones. Fishstiq has some too.

[nwscubamom]

Just got a hold of Mike Racine on the phone, and he'll try to check in here tomorrow, but he and I (for what it's worth) both agree that if Doug Marcoux is willing, that he be the point person, the organizer, for this effort. So, Doug - would you be willing to head this up? Having a unified ORGANIZED effort will put us head and shoulders above where we'd be if we tackle this in a ramshackle way.

Doug? Whaddya say?

And is everyone else cool with that?

- Janna

[Pez7378]

Will he be speaking for the WSA? Are you SURE you want to do that?

[nwscubamom]

Hehe, no, I think Mike Racine will show up at the meeting and speak for WSA. If I work things right, I might be able to travel up there for it as well, and maybe represent REEF for the meeting. We'll see (and I'm not really sure if the REEF stuff will even bear any weight, really)

- Janna

[Nwbrewer]

So what is it you hope to accomplish by doing this? It's not going to make any progress towards getting the site re-opened. More than likely one of two things will happen. You'll either go down there, have a nice dive and leave. Or at some point you'll be cited by someone hoping to make an example of you. I fail to see what either outcome accomplishes.

I'll admit I've dove this site since August. I didn't see it posted, and my talks prior to August with parks and recreation gave me no reason to believe that it would be closed, in fact just the opposite. No one bothered us, once MPD rolled through and waved. My guess would be you'll just go out and have a dive. If all you want to do is dive the site, please stop posting about it and making a big deal over it. Just go down and dive. But please don't make things worse for those of us trying to work inside the process to get the site re-opened.

Jake

[airsix]

Please let the cooler heads prevail here. Listen to what Jake/Doug/Janna/Richard/ and others are saying regarding a diplomatic approach. You know there's an old saying: YOU CAN'T FIGHT CITY HALL. There's a reason that's an old saying. I've been around municipal government enough to know that you DO NOT get what you want by DEMANDING it. Whether respect is deserved or not, you show it anyway. You ask nicely, you offer compromise, etc. etc. If you act huffy and defiant you will become a target and lose more than you've already lost. Whether you like it or not you are in the game and the only way to win the game is by the rules.

-Ben

[Sounder]

Why am I not surprised?

You two may selfishly ruin it for everyone. To do this, for this reason, is a slap in the face to the diving community and is about as disrespectful as it gets with complete disregard to those who are trying to handle this through proper channels.

Just got a hold of Mike Racine on the phone, and he'll try to check in here tomorrow, but he and I (for what it's worth) both agree that if Doug Marcoux is willing, that he be the point person, the organizer, for this effort. So, Doug - would you be willing to head this up? Having a unified ORGANIZED effort will put us head and shoulders above where we'd be if we tackle this in a ramshackle way.

Doug? Whaddya say?

And is everyone else cool with that?

- Janna

Yes, last night I heard from Mike and Janna, and so long as everyone is ok with it, I'd be glad to coordinate things to help us get and stay organized.

If this is going to work, it's going to be a team effort. This includes the polite letters of question and concern, the correct people speaking at the Council meeting, and help from friends of the people who are openly willing to screw the whole thing up to ensure they don't.

If at all possible, would those of you who have sent, or are sending, letters please send me a copy of them? I'd like to have them all in one place for reference. Additionally, if you're able and willing to come to the Council meeting in support, please let me know that as well along with your contact information. I will start talking with folks who would be good speaking representatives for us to determine their availability and willingness to take the podium at the meeting as well.

Please send stuff to me via PM or via the email function here on the site.

The meeting has not been placed on their calendar for March yet, but it appears they meet on the first Monday of each month, which is March 2nd. I will post more details as they come available and if anyone hears of something different, please let us all know.

[DiverDown]

Me too, maby if the media can see how stupid the ban is. That might put more pressure on them then Doug representing all of us..

[Nwbrewer]

DiverDown I don't believe there is any intention of having Doug represent all of us. By all means represent yourself. I intend to. I have written the city, and I intend to go to the next city council meeting to make my voice heard. The intention was that having one person as the point of contact, and presenting a coordinated and united front working within the system, we (the SCUBA community as a whole) have much better odds of getting shore diving re-opened than a few divers showing up for an act of civil disobedience that will most likely not result in a positive outcome. (or any outcome for that matter) I'd love to see 50-100 divers at the city council meeting, but I'd bet we're lucky to see 5-6.


There may be a time for a "Dive-in" but it seems counterproductive to me to conduct such an operation before all avenues withing the system have been exhausted. As I said, if you love this site so much that you're willing to dive it in violation of the rules, go ahead, but please don't post about it on a public forum.

Jake

[Sounder]

Me too, maby if the media can see how stupid the ban is. That might put more pressure on them then Doug representing all of us..

You don't get it. We CAN'T pressure them... we have nothing to pressure them with. Nobody cares about scuba divers, but scuba divers. Nobody can make a case that taking diving away will hurt the businesses on the beach. Do you think Ivars gives a crap if there is diving or not? Do you think the Diamondknot is going to be forced to close without us? They won't even notice. All you'll do in your effort to "put pressure on them" is to pissed them off and permanently shut and lock the door that we might be able to get re-opened through other tactics.

The City doesn't give a crap about you, or me, or any other scuba diver... and they don't have to. There is one scuba diver who they MIGHT (but I doubt it) care about, and Ben at DiveXtras because he's a Mukilteo business owner. The best and perhaps only viable strategy is to approach them as concerned and saddened divers who are looking to work out some kind of solution that fits everyone's needs.

To be clear, I'm not representing "us." I'm just coordinating things so we don't come off looking like a cluster-f. If I have my way, I won't even speak at the meeting. I'd MUCH prefer to have Mike Racine, John Rawlings, Richard Jack, Peter Rothschild, and other folks like them do the speaking. They a) know a whole lot more than I do, and b) carry more weight than I do. I'm merely ensuring we're all on the same page because we get one chance at this and we can't afford to be disorganized.

[DiverDown]

There may be a time for a "Dive-in" but it seems counterproductive to me to conduct such an operation before all avenues withing the system have been exhausted. As I said, if you love this site so much that you're willing to dive it in violation of the rules, go ahead, but please don't post about it on a public forum.

Jake

Then how else are we supposed to do it then? The northwest diving community is alot bigger than this board, WSA, ect. Counter productive, IMO is up to interpertation. History has proven protests work, though not always to a favorable outcome. Putting the pressure on the local government is the only way to make change. All will never agree on how its done, but its not like the national guard is going to show up and tear gas people. Its a stupid ban that has ZERO merit. Lets show people that vote for there representatives how we feel.

As far as being selfish I call bull! Some will support one way some will support others. If we all just followed like sheep we would all be more of a socialist society. Whos feelings are going to be hurt anyway? the ten people or so that voiced there opinion on this board? Im sorry but that dosent represent the diving community. And neither do I or the few that might want to show up to protest the ban.

[Nwbrewer]

There may be a time for a "Dive-in" but it seems counterproductive to me to conduct such an operation before all avenues withing the system have been exhausted. As I said, if you love this site so much that you're willing to dive it in violation of the rules, go ahead, but please don't post about it on a public forum.

Jake

Then how else are we supposed to do it then? The northwest diving community is alot bigger than this board, WSA, ect. Counter productive, IMO is up to interpertation. History has proven protests work, though not always to a favorable outcome. Putting the pressure on the local government is the only way to make change. All will never agree on how its done, but its not like the national guard is going to show up and tear gas people. Its a stupid ban that has ZERO merit. Lets show people that vote for there representatives how we feel.

As far as being selfish I call bull! Some will support one way some will support others. If we all just followed like sheep we would all be more of a socialist society. Whos feelings are going to be hurt anyway? the ten people or so that voiced there opinion on this board? Im sorry but that dosent represent the diving community. And neither do I or the few that might want to show up to protest the ban.

Yep. Talk to everyone you know. Talk to folks at the local dive shops, post on some of the other local boards. Get as many people as possible to write letters expressing their concern and opinions on the matter. Show up to the city council meeting and express your concerns. That's the proper way to get things changed, at least, that's the proper 1st steps.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread proposing that we "follow like sheep". Everyone seems to have proposed that we work to get the rule changed. I will be throwing my effort behind the method I think has the greatest chance of success, and that is working to make sure the people who have made the decision hear my voice.

As for who's feelings will be hurt? How about the many divers NOT on this board who dive this site and would like to continue to do so? How about the many divers who will get certified and won't have access to such a unique site?

Just out of curiosity, what's your plan? You going to call the local media? Tv, newspapers, etc? You going to have signs to hold up, protesting the rule change? Do you have enough information at this point to even discuss the issue coherently with a reporter? Or are you just going to show up and do a dive that more likely than not, no one will notice or care about?

[Joshua Smith]

How does this sound? Nobody can force anybody not to dive a site by writing stuff on the internet. All that's happening here is just people baiting eachother, with utterly predictable and irritating results.

Here's the new rule, and if you don't like it, write your congressman:

DO NOT ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DIVE SOMEWHERE ILLEGALLY IN THIS THREAD, OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THIS SITE.

You wanna dive it, be my guest.
JUST. DON'T. WRITE. ABOUT. IT. HERE.

[mattwave]

I like diving at Muk and I like Mac N Jacks at the knot, :occasion5:
I will be at the silver cloud in an hour and the knot after that if anyone wants to still dive the silver cloud while we can.

[DiverDown]

How does this sound? Nobody can force anybody not to dive a site by writing stuff on the internet. All that's happening here is just people baiting eachother, with utterly predictable and irritating results.

Here's the new rule, and if you don't like it, write your congressman:

DO NOT ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DIVE SOMEWHERE ILLEGALLY IN THIS THREAD, OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THIS SITE.

You wanna dive it, be my guest.
JUST. DON'T. WRITE. ABOUT. IT. HERE.

Sorry Josh, your right! I will still have beers or dive with anyone. The internet is the worst place to argue. Sometimes feelings or values dont always coencide...

[Joshua Smith]

To further emphasize this, with the notification of time and place, I will encourage MPD to not only cite the divers, but however possible within the law to confiscate all dive gear, vehicles, and whatever else they can creatively think of. This recommendation and request will be a demonstration of how the divers with whom the City is working with are not condoning the rogue acts of a few, but rather, are willing to help make examples of them. Further, I will direct them to the posts here as demonstration that the divers ARE aware of the law so they cannot "plead ignorance" upon contact with law enforcement.

Give me a break. This isn't helping to improve things, either. Everyone needs to step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. I'm gonna lock this thread down for a while- it'll be unlocked later this evening. Everyone go outside and walk around the block or something.

[Joshua Smith]

Okay. Look, everyone- this is an important topic. Unlike some people, I do understand that nothing written on the internet can stop people from going right ahead and diving wherever they please. (as a matter of fact, I heard from a friend that there were more than a few people diving there today).

BUT- since it is apparently illegal to dive there now, and because were hoping to get that law reversed, and because anyone at all can get on the internet and see what we're writing here:

Please don't write about your intentions to dive illegally at Mukilteo state park, or anywhere else, for that matter. If you want to do it, I certainly can't stop you, and neither can anyone except for the cops.

If this matter proceeds to a point where a large group of divers have concluded that an organized act of civil disobedience in the form of a dive in needs to happen, we WILL permit open discussion of that here, but in the meantime, I don't want to see any "screw that, I'm diving there at 6, come join me!" posts, because they are counterproductive. Almost as counterproductive as threatening the divers who are planning such dives.

Let's start fresh, and please, please don't cause me any more grief, here?