Steel 130s and weight

bnboly · Post by **bnboly** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:24 am

I just picked up a 130 and am a bit lost as to how much weight I need to shed.

Last weekend BASSMAN and I dove Sunny Side and using his steel 100 w/36lbs I sunk like a rock. I was planning on droping to 32-34 lbs for the next dive but that would have been with an Al80.

My next dive will be #3 after OW cert so boyancy and weighting are still problematic for me.

Suggestions?

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:41 am

Check out:

http://tdl.divebiz.net/pub/tanks.html

This has the buoyancy characteristics of most tanks out there.

Note that both a HP100 and a 130 are around -8 to -11 pounds negative, and a AL 80 swings from around -2 to +4. Based on that alone, if you were properly weighted with an AL 80 you can drop about 10 pounds to start and then adjust as you get a few dives in.

bnboly · Post by **bnboly** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:16 pm

Thanks for the site - looks like I might try about 28lbs on my next dive.

thelawgoddess · Post by **thelawgoddess** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:55 am

hey bnboly, don't feel bad - i have around 23 dives now and i'm still working on my buoyancy and weighting (and trim). every time i change something about my kit - going from wet to dry, changing from neoprene to non-neoprene boos, changing my hood, adding more/less lights, etc. ... i seem to have to start all over again. of course, having al80's all the time didn't help, and i am so psyched to get my "new" steel tanks so i can get a better grip on my weighting, too.

btw, you didn't mention in your post (and as i have often forgotten myself) ... but don't forget that your weighting needs to be adjusted at the end of your dive with a nearly empty tank. when i dive with my al80's i generally feel way too heavy throughout most of the dive, which often tempts me to drop weight next time ... until i'm nearing my safety stop and struggling to stay underwater. DOH!

also, i heard/read two ways to do weighting - one is to do it at the surface with 500 psi left (in a normal 3000 psi al80); one is to do it with an "empty" tank at 20 feet. (i have also been given the impression that 500 psi should pretty much be considered "empty" since most spg's are not capable of reading psi that accurately at the end.) but, i was wondering specifically what methods people on here have tried adjusting their weighting that they found to be the best for them? and what additions/subtractions to their kit have they found need/don't need 1lb+ of adjustment? (like cameras, backup lights, etc.)

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:13 pm

thelawgoddess wrote: also, i heard/read two ways to do weighting - one is to do it at the surface with 500 psi left (in a normal 3000 psi al80); one is to do it with an "empty" tank at 20 feet. (i have also been given the impression that 500 psi should pretty much be considered "empty" since most spg's are not capable of reading psi that accurately at the end.) but, i was wondering specifically what methods people on here have tried adjusting their weighting that they found to be the best for them? and what additions/subtractions to their kit have they found need/don't need 1lb+ of adjustment? (like cameras, backup lights, etc.)

I haven't heard the "empty" at 20 feet, but I am assuming that means 500 psi at 20 feet . . . I don't think I'd want to be at 20 feet with a dry tank figuring out my buoyancy, I think you are right to assume this method means 500 psi.

The method I used with Bob was to blow the tank down to 500 psi at the end of the dive, descend with him to ten feet, and lay on the bottom, if you could lift yourself off the bottom by breathing with an empty suit and BC, and then descend by exhaling, that meant you were properly weighted. When I did it, I had a few 1 pound weights in my trim pockets on my cam bands-idea being if I was overweighted, Bob could reach down and remove one or two weights. Turned out we didn't need to do that . . .

I've since added a backup light and carry a steel finger spool and a rather large SMB in my pockets and haven't changed my weighting at all. I do add/subtract 2 pounds when switching from my 98s to my 119 or 130.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:58 pm

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:04 pm

I wear about 10# in a single steel E8-130 with 200g drysuit underwear. I wear about 17# in a single steel E8-130 with fluffy 400g underwear (my current 400g is not quite as fluffy anymore...). I would be a little surprised if anyone needed more than about 25# using just about any particular configuration.

dsteding wrote: The method I used with Bob was to blow the tank down to 500 psi at the end of the dive, descend with him to ten feet, and lay on the bottom, if you could lift yourself off the bottom by breathing with an empty suit and BC, and then descend by exhaling, that meant you were properly weighted. When I did it, I had a few 1 pound weights in my trim pockets on my cam bands-idea being if I was overweighted, Bob could reach down and remove one or two weights. Turned out we didn't need to do that . . .

I've found it works to take off weight with 500 psi until you can't descend anymore than add a back in 2# increments until you can descend. Then if you're inexperienced you probably want to add 2-4# back on for comfort at the end of the dive -- drop that weight as you get more skilled at dumping gas out of your wing/drysuit at the end of a dive. As you come up from actual dives with 500-1000 psi of gas you should be checking how hard you need to work to stay down and adjust -- and to begin with go ahead and break trim and roll around a bit trying to aggressively get all the gas out of your drysuit -- you'll learn how to get *all* the gas out and still look cool doing it later...

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:14 pm

Lamont - I'll be running a steep BP with 8# of plate weights and a single HP130. Are you saying I will not need more than 15# in my weight belt (wearing a drysuit with a somewhat fluffy undergarmet)? I'm going to be buying weights soon for both Mrs. Sounder and myself. I (obviously) will need more weight as I displace a wee-bit more water.

Erica is running the same BP and 8# plate weights with a single HP100.

If I were to get a grand total of 50# for the two of us in soft weights, I assume we'd have plenty of weight for both of us (with some left over keeping in mind we're both new divers)?

What "denominations" would you recommend I get that weight in?

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:02 pm

I use the empty the suit, dump the tank(s) to 4-500 psi, descend (barely) then add 2 lbs approach. Yes, I can get down with less - shrink wrapped.

But when I am finishing up a long dive anywhere, puttering around in <20 ft, I want gas in my suit! I've typically been in the water about 45 to 70 minutes and the last thing I want is to be purging every last drop of nice warm argon so I can stay down.

With a single LP95, a 200 gm undergarment, and SS plate, I use 22 lbs in my very crinkly Northern Diver suit. I find I need more weight with this particular shell since its made from basically cordura and its hard to vent all the excess from the creases. In my diving concepts shell I could use 2 or 3 lbs less.

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:38 pm

Sounder wrote:Lamont - I'll be running a steep BP with 8# of plate weights and a single HP130. Are you saying I will not need more than 15# in my weight belt (wearing a drysuit with a somewhat fluffy undergarmet)? I'm going to be buying weights soon for both Mrs. Sounder and myself. I (obviously) will need more weight as I displace a wee-bit more water.

well its always difficult to guess diver-to-diver depending on body characteristics, wetsuit/drysuit characteristics and how much fluff is on the BCD. since you've got a BP/W with a steel backplate we're pretty similar there. you might that the 8# of weights in addition to the steel backplate makes you head-down a little bit (but if you get used to it, trim in doubles will be that much easier).

I would say that just about anyone should be good with 15# + 8# + steel BP + steel tanks. that's about 6-8# more weight than I use -- but I am naturally a bit of a sinker and can barely float on a full inhale in the pool... uncrushed neoprene drysuits and thick wetsuits might need more weight, particularly on larger folks, dunno...

If I were to get a grand total of 50# for the two of us in soft weights, I assume we'd have plenty of weight for both of us (with some left over keeping in mind we're both new divers)?

I would think so.

What "denominations" would you recommend I get that weight in?

i don't know about soft weights. i got 2x2#, 2x3#, 2x4# and i think 4x5# for myself which lets me do just about any config i need (never found the 1#ers terribly useful, but i don't mind having a couple pounds of list either way...)

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:52 am

Thanks. That's a lot of help.

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:15 am

Sounder-

We have very similar singles rigs, I also have the 8 pound plates on a DSS rig. FWIW, in my cordura Northern Divers suit, I use 8 pounds on a belt, and then 3-5 pounds in those XS scuba pockets on my cam bands.

I do have some of the 1 pound soft weights lying around, I actually liked them when getting my trim just right, it allowed me to move small amount of weight up and down on the cam bands, or between my belt and the bands. But, if you get them, 4 pounds is probably enough.

If anything, I find that the 2, 3, and 4 pound weights are the most useful, you can pair them to get almost any weight you want. I rarely use my 5 pound weights.

Bottom line, 50 pounds should be plenty for you and Mrs. Sounder, with the plates and the weight plates that is almost 80 pounds of ballast between the two of you . . .

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:42 am

Thanks for the suggestion - fortunately GD is going to help us ensure we've got the right amount of weight in the right places. When diving my plate with plate weights I haven't found myself being too "head down" but comfortably horizontal... that was with LOTS of weight in a borrowed belt. I think that's interesting you put even MORE weight on your cam straps above the plate weights.

We're going to be running the DUI weight & trim deals (if they ever arrive - DUI had the back ordered while they were waiting for a part to arrive ](*,) ) They should be on the way now though and I'm looking forward to their arrival. With a can light and argon bottle (purchases in the near future) I imagine I'll be plenty heavy using the advice of folk's here and not counting on them as part of my weighting at first.

Thanks.

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:01 am

Sounder wrote: I think that's interesting you put even MORE weight on your cam straps above the plate weights.

Yeah, I've never experienced the head down situation, unless I put myself in that position by dropping my head . . . even with the doubles the other day, it wasn't an issue (and I expected it to be). I like having a fair amount of weight on my back, but if I go too far, I'll compensate by actually diving feet down (think of lurching up because of the weight on your back). One of the things I did when I finally got my trim right in a single rig was put weight back on my belt, which got me more in a feet-up, correct trim position.

With GD helping you out on all this, you are in good hands.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:18 am

Indeed - and with so much experience to pull from I'm in good hands here as well. I feel quite fortunate to have such a wealth of knowledge I can trust here... just a question away. I feel sorry for newbs who don't have the same resource.

bnboly · Post by **bnboly** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:00 pm

Sounds like starting with 38lbs might be a good starting point. I have enough 2s and 3' that adjusting shouldn't be a problem. Now just need to get out there and do it!