How do you pee?

[CaptnJack]

on this board where hijacking is heavily frowned upon

Are we on the same board??

[CaptnJack]

Okay, so maybe people don't read TDS, but this has been discussed here before:
http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... =pee+valve

telling people to "just do a search" has been covered before too, steding.

i think you should reread this thread.

Exactly. When the OP knows better than to do their research here, they are for monkeying with. When the OP doesn't know better we can try to make a good faith effort to answer before derailing.

[Nwbrewer]

This particular OP knows how to use the NHZ option if they are really concerned with the hijacking.

[dsteding]

Okay, so maybe people don't read TDS, but this has been discussed here before:
http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... =pee+valve

telling people to "just do a search" has been covered before too, steding.

i think you should reread this thread.

Okay, way different. Sounder is a very experienced cyber-diver, he knows the ins and outs, heck, he probably participated in the last thread. I'll always be respectful of new divers asking questions that have been asked before--agreed that should be tolerated.

I was just trying to have a little fun, in the NWDC tradition of hijacking. I'll go be serious now.

[Sounder]

Well, as the OP I can answer the question at hand - yes, I was actually interested in a discussion. I figured there would be some humor as this can be an entertaining subject, but I actually was looking for information. My first words were an attempt to say "please don't hijack this thread, but a little humor is always appreciated and I know this can be a funny subject."

See, I've never used a p-valve before - I've never even put on a cath to try it like Scottsax has. I got some information from friends and then wanted to hear others' experiences. So in essence, this was a thread from a newb. A newb at least in this regard.

In talking about this with a couple other people, I found that there are more people than just me who are curious about this subject but who don't feel comfortable asking. So I posted this in the recreational gear forum, included the females as one of the interested people I've been talking to is female and is interested in actual experiences, included other subjects that have been asked of me including things like UTIs, and put it here on our little board as neither of these folks cares to sift through the bullshit on TDS nor to they understand the technical talk as they're not technical divers.

So yes, this actually was an attempt at a real thread, but it appears I can't do that anymore without instantly being messed with despite my direct request for that not to happen. This absolutely was not an attempt at a ""hey look at me, I'm gonna pee in my pants" thread, nor do I think it's appropriate to consider someone "for monkeying with" if they've been around a while but begin a thread about a subject they're interested in discussing. I did my research, but I didn't get but 3 opinions and I didn't hear real experiences from anyone beyond "I use this one, and I have a huge dick." I was hoping for more, and I assumed we'd all have a few good laughs while we were at it.

I don't mind hijacking, but taking any and every opportunity to be an asshole to someone gets really old, and I get tired of answering PMs from friends asking me why it's happening.

[Joshua Smith]

Doug: I'm sorry I took part in the hijack. Do you want me to clean it up?

Everybody: this thread is starting to turn mean and ugly. Play nice, or go play somewhere else.

[LCF]

Well, from a medical standpoint: Although condom catheters do not have as high an incidence of urinary tract infections as indwelling urethral catheters do, they do raise the risk, and I know of at least two men who have been hospitalized for IV antibiotics with seriously resistant UTIs as a result of p-valve use. The key is hygiene -- all of the hardware has to be rinsed copiously with fresh water after diving, so that no urine remains in the tubing. It is probably a good idea to do the final rinse with something antiseptic, although I suspect the flushing with water is the largest part of the reduction in bacterial number.

From my personal experience with the She-P: Surprisingly, maybe, the thing works. The Urobond adhesive that Laura is selling now is WAY superior to the Hollister spray, although it is a little more difficult to work with. For me, the Hollister spray will NOT last an entire diving day. In my experience, if the thing is going to leak, it will do it in the back. Wearing a pad or Depends to catch leaks will make your life more pleasant. The increase in ease of emptying one's bladder is well worth the expense and the minor fuss, especially for days spent on small boats. Most people are polite enough not to comment when you are standing with your back to them and peeing (not all).

Adhesive removal from the device is a challenge, and Laura recommends the Remove pads. Using them immediately after taking the device off helps a lot -- the adhesive seems to harden with time exposed to air. But no matter what, it takes several pads and a bunch of scrubbing to get it all off.

Some shaving is necessary, but not a full Brazilian. It is not necessary to shave daily, which helps with reducing skin irritation from the adhesive or one's efforts to remove it from the skin (and no, I didn't find that baby oil helped at all).

Laura's a fount of information about the device and its use, and the only thing I want to add is that it really does work as billed.

[Sounder]

Doug: I'm sorry I took part in the hijack. Do you want me to clean it up?

Everybody: this thread is starting to turn mean and ugly. Play nice, or go play somewhere else.

I think the thread is fine the way it is.

I'd still love to get some real answers and I know there are at least 4 (more reserved and newer, both male and female) NWDCers who are also looking hoping to get some questions answered.

[scottsax]

OK, so since we're getting back on topic here, I've never used the Halcyon p-valve in my suit. I want to, I'm just...struggling with the idea of it, and I'm a little chicken. I don't have a quick disconnect-is it necessary? Is there a possibility of backflow (I can't even begin to imagine how cold 46 degree water is on your... ) ? Do I need to "charge" the system first?

Is there a manual I can download somewhere?

Am I just overthinking this?

[dsteding]

I'd still love to get some real answers and I know there are at least 4 (more reserved and newer, both male and female) NWDCers who are also looking hoping to get some questions answered.

Okay, in the interest of informing others:

1) Buy a balanced valve

2) Slightly bigger is better than slightly smaller cath I like widebands, they don't come off until you beg them to

3) cleaning: irrigation syringe/ketchup bottle with alcohol or some other disinfectant--some people use vinegar, but I swear that corrodes the check valves which leads to leaky p-valves

4) Hose routing matters. No kinks.

5) charge before hand on the surface

6) bolt not necessary, but handy when you need it

6) Quick disconnect? Never used one.

7) Peeing while standing behind your buddies in the parking lot is not good--treat peeing as you otherwise would, i.e, find a quiet place.

8) Peeing in your boat is okay if you own it, otherwise it isn't. Okay, it really never is okay, but sometimes it happens (I rinse my boat).

Lighthouse for the Blind, cheapest caths out there.

[dsteding]

Am I just overthinking this?

No, but Sounder is . . .

[Sounder]

OK, so since we're getting back on topic here, I've never used the Halcyon p-valve in my suit. I want to, I'm just...struggling with the idea of it, and I'm a little chicken. I don't have a quick disconnect-is it necessary? Is there a possibility of backflow (I can't even begin to imagine how cold 46 degree water is on your... ) ? Do I need to "charge" the system first?

Is there a manual I can download somewhere?

Am I just overthinking this?

I've been told that "priming the pump" is helpful. Bob Bailey always primes it... and makes sure I know he's doing it.

I'm going to have a Halcyon balanced valve on my new suit and a regular generic one with the pee-through bolt on the old one. Another suggestion I got from RJack is to get a nylon bolt from Tacoma Screw and drill your own hole in it - evidently it doesn't come out as easily as the metal ones do.

[dsteding]

I've been told that "priming the pump" is helpful. Bob Bailey always primes it... and makes sure I know he's doing it.

Definitely prime. And, if you don't, and, say, you have your bolt/valve closed, and, say, you go on an hour long dive and decide to pee with 10 minutes left at 30 fsw, uh, hold it. Just sayin'.

[lizard0924]

Thanks for starting this thread. I haven't tried a She-P or anything, but my diving has been (so far) limited to shorter shore dives and I haven't really seen a need to explore the whole p-valve option. That being said, I really appreciate LCF's input and review of her experience with one. I expect that someday I will understand what all the fuss is about and start seriously thinking about such things! It's good to have the info readily available here.

[Burntchef]

ultraflex and popons are my fave. easy on easy off.

[Mattleycrue76]

I wonder if a UTI caused by a drysuit pee valve would be covered by DAN insurance?

[Sounder]

I wonder if a UTI caused by a drysuit pee valve would be covered by DAN insurance?

You know, I totally bet it would. It'll cover you for non-diving related things when you're more than 50 miles from your home zip code, I bet it'd cover a UTI. UTIs can be nasty and definitely need to be treated.

[CaptnJack]

I wonder if a UTI caused by a drysuit pee valve would be covered by DAN insurance?

Oh man, you don't wanna bother with DAN (they are secondary anyway).

I have never primed my system, its an original Halcyon - not the newer round style, always seems to work fine.

For both boys and girls do not cut the hose too short. You want to route things "up". Trust me on this one, "down" is a recipe for kinking - not the hose itself the cath to hose joint.

Quick disconnects are totally unnecessary for boys - solution looking for a problem. For girls, since you are reusing the device I think a permanent connection to the disconnect is a good idea. Boys can disconnect the cath material once or twice no big deal, after that it gets a bit stretched out and won't necessarily go onto the hose barb all that securely.

[CaptnJack]

I expect that someday I will understand what all the fuss is about and start seriously thinking about such things! It's good to have the info readily available here.

Bookmark this page, in addition to being the NA distributor, Laura has everything you need to know:
http://web.mac.com/ljjames/homepage/She-P.html

[Sounder]

What about removal? The wipes? Wait until you get home and do it with soap and water in the shower? Yank it off like a man and don't cry because crying is for babies and girls?

[Dmitchell]

Quick disconnects are totally unnecessary for boys - solution looking for a problem. .

Totally disagree! They make things really easy and less fighting to get all hooked up. Get in the suit and click you are hooked up.

Also, I route the hose up the leg and have a hole cut in the Weezle to pass it through no up and over. The Pee valve hose is about 8" long. Some people like it this way others want it up to the belly and back down.

[dsteding]

What about removal? The wipes? Wait until you get home and do it with soap and water in the shower? Yank it off like a man and don't cry because crying is for babies and girls?

I refuse to share my secrets on this one, some things are best "learn by experience" . . .

Okay,

Okay, I won't be grumpy.

Let's think this through:

1) You've put something on your unit that has adhesive on it.

2) You've got some experience with adhesives and skin from, say, bandaids on things like knees as a kiddo.

3) A couple things you probably learned from that:

--Hair and adhesive does not go together

--If you can remove slowly, and peel it back, that actually works better than ripping something off.

4) Apply your experience to the novel scenario of having an adhesive-backed thing on your unit. You are faced with some options:

--Obsess about it, never buy a pee-valve, eventually wet yourself.

--Make conditions as best as they are, and "cross that bridge when you get to it."

--Rip it off and hope it doesn't hurt too bad.

Me? Being the thinking diver I am . . . I made things the best I could in terms of conditions (trimming is good) and then, when confronted with the novel situation of peeling something off where it honestly should never have been stuck, coped, with pain as a good feedback mechanism.

My piece of advice:

If it hurts like a sonofabitch, stop doing it and figure something else out.

[Gooch]

Hold it...I noticed, however, that doing that changes my behaviour though for both warm and cold diving. I tend to watch more of what I drink before the dives in the cold so I don't drink that thirstytwo ouncer 1 hour before hitting the water. In the warm water, I find I have a hard time going at all since I have conditioned myself not to go in my suit at all. Though, I noticed the warm water thing changes pretty quickly once you are diving a bit there

[Kalatin]

Here is my worry with a She-P - I can't pee in a wetsuit. Seriously. I've tried and I just get major stage fright. I have some weird mental block when it comes to peeing in my clothes, even when it results in a mad dash to the bathroom immediately upon exiting the water. Has anyone else overcome stage fright to move onto well-hydrated diving joy? Anyone install a P-valve and find that they have a weird mental block against using it?

[ljjames]

Thanks Richard

Now, Lynne, with regards to several wipes, I use one to 'soften the adhesive up' (put it on and let it sit for 30 second to a min, use that same one to gently kind of 'knead' or 'massage' the adhesive. After about a minute or so of this, the adhesive just starts to kind of disappear, I finish off that wipe, and use a second one for getting essentially the residue off. I will have a new video soon, showing the three types of adhesives, application, and removal (of the adhesives from the device, boys!)

The new "blue" She-P is en route from the Netherlands. Some of you who were at the shows have seen it, the silicone is softer and its.. blue It's a "limited edition", only about 150 or so will be produced so 'when they are gone, they're gone!'

Sander, of Heleen and Sander (Parents of the She-P) uses condom caths without any adhesive. Yes, this is a for real, I dove with him and although I didn't proctor application (that was Heleen's job) was basically shocked into silence/disbelief/amazement, since i'd never heard of that being done He didn't even smell like piss after the dive, either...

On to the painful removal thing.... adhesives are weakest at 'peeling' strength, so just like with the she-p, if you work a corner or edge up and then peel _gently_ it should hurt less. ALSO, if you can work a corner up, you can use one of our REMOVE wipes and kind of work the adhesive remover along the adhesive area to help it release a bit as you are peeling. This is part of why I searched out something that doesn't hurt when you put it on delicate skin

In my tests, water alone won't completely make your pee valve clean. I HIGHLY recommend squirting a bunch of alcohol or other real cleaner down it (I do after every dive) at least periodically. I did some studies (part of the fun of working in healthcare) to see if things grow out of a pee tube, and holy crap do they ever... if you have a quick disconnect, and you don't rinse with bug killer, I dare you to look down into that thing... EEEEWWWWWW! (its in your hose too, you just can't see it) I have actually gone to also squirting some disinfectant down it BEFORE I dive, and make sure to blow it out (alcohol the other direction not comfey). I have not had a UTI, and i don't want one.

I use a Halcyon streamlined p-valve... I don't worry about priming it before the dive, but i do pre-test my she-p. Priming was necessary for the unbalanced, but with the newer balanced designs, it's more of a pre-dive pee test to make sure everything is flowing and going the right direction as opposed to filling the tube to prevent hose squishing closed due compression issues.

Sounder, I have a couple size medium (the most common size) condom caths laying around (they ship with all the halcyon p-valves) and would be happy to throw one your direction to ...test. I'm also pricing a few types out and would be happy to assist with some group orders (for you boys) from time to time, as i get my supplies directly from a urologic supply distributor so may be able to get y'all some good pricing. No, I'm not ordering 5 boxes of XXXXL. I will be happy to relabel the M's with XXXXL though but they'll be 25% more expensive to pay for my time

I love being able to pee. I knew I needed it for longer dives, after about 100 min i'd get out of the water really having to pee and i've ALWAYS hated depends, but it turns out I use it on almost every dive.... I actually feel warmer than if I were wearing depends or just "holding it" (having to pee makes me cold... dunno why, but it seems to). In addition, there is a ton of medical data from studies showing there are physiologic effects of a full bladder aside from just pain/doing funny dances/crossing legs/etc... (heart rate, blood pressure, etc...) that I'm sure Lynne can help us with (not to mention the damage to the bladder itself from long term repetitive distention)

I also love not feeling dehydrated after a dive and guzzling that whole bottle of gatoraid cause i'm so darned thirsty....

Peeing whilst diving does not come naturally. But with a bit of practice (at first I just used it at the end of the dive when standing up, so i didn't have to slog up the beach with aching bladder and race to strip out of gear) it becomes much easier. Also many of us have found 'squeezing' something with our hand helps release the sphincter (or you stop fixating on it) or something. So much so that we were actually tempted to ship every she-p with a stress ball to squeeze while learning to use it After while, once your body/brain realizes that you are peeing into a device and not in your clothes, it gets easier and easier to the point that you have to remember DO NOT PEE if you didn't put on your continence aid.

Happy peeing!

Ladies (and men), you can also ask stuff via email if that makes ya more comfortable