Tacoma Equipment Dive on Saturday

[Sounder]

I agree with Bob - that is pretty insulting for someone (I'll go out on a limb here) at least the MAJORITY of people on this board (including the moderators) believe is doing good things for people. I also believe the MAJORITY of people here, regardless of "philosophical affiliation," believe gas management as it is publicly and freely taught by Bob, Brian, and Scott is a means of increasing one's safety.

I also think the person who pulled the warhammer maneuver in the pool last time, who argued incessantly about an approach which the MAJORITY of people seemed not to agree with, has a lot of people unwilling to enter into another retarded argument in hopes the previous warhammer may have finally flushed out allowing better vis to return.

Pretty sad if you ask me.

[Diver_C]

[Note: I choose to say "nevermind" to my prior comments posted here.]

Soooo... how bout them Dawgs??? Showed those Cornhuskers a thing or two! Woo-hoo!!
And when are we going to have one of those dive n' pizza nights?? Sounder???

[Dashrynn]

LOUD NOISES!, I DONT KNOW WHAT WE ARE YELLING ABOUT!

People are getting yelled at for suggesting that maybe doing deep dives on small tanks ain't a smart move, Curtis. Apparently, we're not supposed to talk about gas management on this board anymore.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Its a movie reference from "anchorman", we have so many of these discussions i could probably tell you whats gonna happen next...just gets old.

It's like religion, same thing over and over. But i do agree about some sort of gas management....knowledge is power...whether you use it or not is up to you.

Oh and i could do a "bounce" (drop straight to 100 and come back up normal accent) dive on an 80cf cylinder to 100ft with at least 35cf (1300 psi) easily left in my tank when surfaced. Not impossible for us girly breathers.

[spatman]

For the most part, the red flag issue, gas management, seemed to be discussed in a civilized manner, until your post Matt, then, well, I don't know... Meh, I understand what you were thinking, but the hammer-tone seemed harsh. That's all.

you guys are missing the point within my sarcasm, it seems. to be clear:

there is nothing wrong with discussing gas management.

the horse that has been beaten to death is the back and forth about whose methodology is best. "scuba police", "your gonna die" etc is what prompted my post. that type of discussion we, and the new readers, can do without.

so please, discuss away. be civil and respect each other's views, if it is at all possible. otherwise we're going down the same rabbit hole, over and over.

[cardiver]

Oh, nooooooo!

[spatman]

Oh, nooooooo!

HA!

[Sounder]

So does referring to "your going to die" or the "scuba police" count as inflammatory? Anyone who has been around for a while knows this is a comment directed at one particular "philosophical affiliation," and the comments were unprovoked and unnecessary. If the reverse were true, and someone of this "philosophical affiliation" were to hypothetically have called the poster, for example, "a stroke," it would most certainly have been deemed as much. Moreover, those who commented in the thread prior to the inflammatory comments are outwardly NOT affiliated with the "philosophical affiliation" the comments were a direct attack on. It seems the poster of the comments was just trying to cause a moderator PITA with random acts of general douchebaggery. Unfortunately, meanwhile nobody is willing to pass along what many consider important safety information because they just don't want to deal with another stupid argument.

In other news... Matt said "hole."

[Diver_C]

In other news... Matt said "hole."

Heh-heh-heh he did say "hole"


P.S. I'm so glad I missed that previous discussion.

[BASSMAN]

Okay, okay, maybe using the words "Getting stupid on an aluminum 80" was a bad choice of words. But I was just thinking out loud, I hope I didn't offend anyone. If i did, you can do this to me.
But please don't do this
Okay, so I think I may have just use all of the Smilies at least one time! But I'm not 100 % sure.

[Grateful Diver]

So does referring to "your going to die" or the "scuba police" count as inflammatory? Anyone who has been around for a while knows this is a comment directed at one particular "philosophical affiliation," and the comments were unprovoked and unnecessary.

The saddest part is that except for yourself, none of the people involved up to that point even subscribe to the dreaded "philosophical affiliation" ... if you know these divers, they're about as varied a group as you can find on this board.

I really don't understand people who have to jump into these conversations, make inflammatory comments, and then moan about "rabbit holes" that they helped to create. Why don't we just make a big list of things that we shouldn't talk about, so everybody knows what topics to stay away from?

About the only thing I feel safe cramming down people's throats anymore is pictures ... and I'm just waiting for somebody to jump on my ass about those ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[ljjames]

I don't think it was the people who give the gas management seminars that were being referred to. Bob et al have never (in my opinion) tried to force their seminars on anyone.

I think the comment was directed at the rest of us who jump up and comment on gas planning when someone mentions doing a dive that is not something we'd do, and start proselytizing vehemently about the gas management seminars.

I get hammered on when i mention doing an easy dive on doubles "this is what is wrong with blah blah blah, encouraging people to dive doubles where a single tank would be fine, and blah blah blah, we just dove that dive on a single last week!" ... or driving the proverbial ferrari to the corner store (AKA 'breather at the junkyard or somethin').

Seriously... hard to win here on this board So OP, please just ignore all this for the most part... singles or doubles, 80 or 100, air or mix, OC or CCR.... no matter what we bring up there is always someone who won't agree and a bunch of people who will be happy to throw in their $.25.

To the rest of us... how about a new years resolution... show a bit more tolerance and don't assume the worst.

and yes, of course gas planning is a good thing. :P

[Sounder]

So does referring to "your going to die" or the "scuba police" count as inflammatory? Anyone who has been around for a while knows this is a comment directed at one particular "philosophical affiliation," and the comments were unprovoked and unnecessary.

The saddest part is that except for yourself, none of the people involved up to that point even subscribe to the dreaded "philosophical affiliation" ... if you know these divers, they're about as varied a group as you can find on this board.

I really don't understand people who have to jump into these conversations, make inflammatory comments, and then moan about "rabbit holes" that they helped to create. Why don't we just make a big list of things that we shouldn't talk about, so everybody knows what topics to stay away from?

About the only thing I feel safe cramming down people's throats anymore is pictures ... and I'm just waiting for somebody to jump on my ass about those ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is exactly what I pointed out too, and fwiw, I hadn't responded at all before the comments were made...

Moreover, those who commented in the thread prior to the inflammatory comments are outwardly NOT affiliated with the "philosophical affiliation" the comments were a direct attack on. It seems the poster of the comments was just trying to cause a moderator PITA with random acts of general douchebaggery.

[Joshua Smith]

Argh. Bob, I'm sorry. I had no intent to insult you, but I totally get how bad my comment looked.

What I was trying to express was my frustration with the fact that I don't like people getting all bent out of shape over the op planning to do a 100' dive on an al80.

Gas management is great, and your seminars are a wonderful resource that I would recommend to any new diver.

[BASSMAN]

... how about a new years resolution... show a bit more tolerance and don't assume the worst.
and yes, of course gas planning is a good thing. :P

Well put Laura! I'll jump at that!
But at the same time we will still get the
Confused with the
:angry: :shootself:


When in reality, it's just as you say, a few, putting in their own .02



I will try to be a better, more sensitive and self governing poster in 2011. To know when I'm pushing the edge and will try to recognize, when I should not put my .02 in, if it may start a ...
:angry: or .

As a new member, I have asked about a few of the ...


When in all honesty, I was just asking for

Good thing we have the moderators.


Man, I can't wait, to get back to diving, this can drive a person

And yet I still, did not use every Smiley!

[pogiguy05]

... how about a new years resolution... show a bit more tolerance and don't assume the worst.
and yes, of course gas planning is a good thing. :P

Well put Laura! I'll jump at that!
But at the same time we will still get the
Confused with the
:angry: :shootself:


When in reality, it's just as you say, a few, putting in their own .02



I will try to be a better, more sensitive and self governing poster in 2011. To know when I'm pushing the edge and will try to recognize, when I should not put my .02 in, if it may start a ...
:angry: or .

As a new member, I have asked about a few of the ...


When in all honesty, I was just asking for

Good thing we have the moderators.


Man, I can't wait, to get back to diving, this can drive a person

And yet I still, did not use every Smiley!

Which one did you miss?

[Joshua Smith]

Great post!

I don't think it was the people who give the gas management seminars that were being referred to. Bob et al have never (in my opinion) tried to force their seminars on anyone.

I think the comment was directed at the rest of us who jump up and comment on gas planning when someone mentions doing a dive that is not something we'd do, and start proselytizing vehemently about the gas management seminars.

I get hammered on when i mention doing an easy dive on doubles "this is what is wrong with blah blah blah, encouraging people to dive doubles where a single tank would be fine, and blah blah blah, we just dove that dive on a single last week!" ... or driving the proverbial ferrari to the corner store (AKA 'breather at the junkyard or somethin').

Seriously... hard to win here on this board So OP, please just ignore all this for the most part... singles or doubles, 80 or 100, air or mix, OC or CCR.... no matter what we bring up there is always someone who won't agree and a bunch of people who will be happy to throw in their $.25.

To the rest of us... how about a new years resolution... show a bit more tolerance and don't assume the worst.

and yes, of course gas planning is a good thing. :P

[Grateful Diver]

Argh. Bob, I'm sorry. I had no intent to insult you, but I totally get how bad my comment looked.

What I was trying to express was my frustration with the fact that I don't like people getting all bent out of shape over the op planning to do a 100' dive on an al80.

Gas management is great, and your seminars are a wonderful resource that I would recommend to any new diver.

I try to approach diving with the attitude that everyone's an adult (well ... most everyone), and therefore free to make their own choices. I prefer if people make informed choices ... and I think most folks prefer people to make choices that fall within what most prudent divers would consider good practices.

That leaves a hell of a lot of latitude for diving style choices and personal preferences. I think it's natural for people to think that because they wouldn't do something, others shouldn't either ... and that's where we start down the rabbit hole. There's a difference between jumping into something feet first without thinking about the consequences vs making the same decision after having considered the pros and cons and deciding that it falls within your acceptable risk limit.

But I also think that most people are well-intentioned when they caution others about what not to do. As an example, at our dive club's Christmas party a couple weeks back, I was floored by how many people expressed concern to me about my 170+ foot solo dive up in Nootka Sound. I could've chosen to take it badly, and tell them that I know what I'm doing and that they shouldn't try to tell me how to dive. But yanno what? Those people care about me ... they had good intentions ... they don't want to see me end up hurt or dead. So I chose to take it that way.

I think the same goes for the people who expressed concern in this case. I don't think they were trying to be "scuba police" at all ... I think they were trying to be helpful.

Bottom line is that the amount of "friendliness" we see in these discussions really boils down to the intent we perceive on the part of the participants. I'd like to see us get back to a place we used to be at ... where we all considered each other friends, and gave each other the benefit of the doubt.

That seems to have gotten lost somewhere along the way ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Pez7378]

I read the OP's post, and it was very easy to reserve comment. As someone has mentioned, an "Equipment" dive could very well be a relatively short dive in which case 77.4 cubes might be plenty of gas. Someone else can do the math.

At any rate, the rules are merely guidelines. Most of you have bent or even shattered many of the SCUBA rules that you so adamantly subscribe to or teach, whether planned or not.

That being said, I'd now like to comment on the comments but the only thing to really say is that I think Laura is right, Josh was misunderstood, and Bob said it best,

I'd like to see us get back to a place we used to be at ... where we all considered each other friends, and gave each other the benefit of the doubt.

That seems to have gotten lost somewhere along the way ...

I remember when Opinions were lessons, not law.

[Dashrynn]

Bob I meant no harm in my simple post, I just dislike all the arguments we have here when a simple modest post would do. But hey I guess that wouldn't be fun huh?

I definitely agree on diver education, and if a "jedi" believes in something other than the "force" then perhaps....well you think for yourself.

[lamont]

"dont dive deeper than the cubic feet of your tank" is just a rule of thumb. it also has nothing to do with any "political affiliation" and i think i learned that one first from bob, not from any course.

i've been on dives where that rule was broken (fairly recently) but was mitigated by the short time spent at depth and the copious amounts of gas attached to other divers who knew how to donate.

a dive where everyone has Al80s, down to 100 feet, running out the rock bottom on those tanks down to 1300 psi with a bunch of of relatively inexperienced divers (<= 100 dives) and using EAN32 and good SAC rates to extend the dive time to 25+ minutes at depth while under a soft overhead like the Cove 2 ferry lane is probably not a good idea though.

without knowing where the OPs dive falls within those two extremes... *shrug*.

[Dashrynn]

"dont dive deeper than the cubic feet of your tank" is just a rule of thumb. it also has nothing to do with any "political affiliation" and i think i learned that one first from bob, not from any course.

i've been on dives where that rule was broken (fairly recently) but was mitigated by the short time spent at depth and the copious amounts of gas attached to other divers who knew how to donate.

a dive where everyone has Al80s, down to 100 feet, running out the rock bottom on those tanks down to 1300 psi with a bunch of of relatively inexperienced divers (<= 100 dives) and using EAN32 and good SAC rates to extend the dive time to 25+ minutes at depth while under a soft overhead like the Cove 2 ferry lane is probably not a good idea though.

without knowing where the OPs dive falls within those two extremes... *shrug*.

exactly...diving is science but even then, there is so many factors that mix into the equation (than just the math). So being open and understanding rather than set in one way makes for a better tomorrow for all not just divers.

The one i thoroughly enjoy is language, translations lost to a deaf or ignorant ear or in my case when portraying the topic fully and effectively. Not enough detail that is left to assumptions can be used here. This topic hits home base for me, i believe people need to be more understanding and less barbaric one set minded monkey's.

[Kirby]

There is nothing wrong with diving an 80 with 32 percent, makes an awesome sling bottle, although I would sling another 40 also just in case.

Kirby

[nwbobber]

Nothing wrong with Bob's (or Bdub's) gas management course either. Been to one. No sore throat. The more information you have the more likely you will notice a shift in "the force".

[Mongo]

.

[Tom Nic]

I was floored by how many people expressed concern to me about my 170+ foot solo dive up in Nootka Sound. I could've chosen to take it badly, and tell them that I know what I'm doing and that they shouldn't try to tell me how to dive. But yanno what? Those people care about me ... they had good intentions ... they don't want to see me end up hurt or dead. So I chose to take it that way.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ooo, Ooo, I just can't let this go by without saying how wonderfully awesome this statement is!

Appreciate this tons!