"What is dangerous" - in scuba diving ??

[Grateful Diver]

You won't need to be a great swimmer, being "still" in the water is vastly harder than the swimming parts.

Well yeah but it has been a very long time that i actually swam in the pool so i thought lets do it.

This is a very good idea ... being comfortable in the water makes your initial class experience much more enjoyable.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[scottsax]

Complacency

+1,000,000!!

[dwashbur]

One thing kills more divers than anything else: panic. If you can keep your head, there's a way to survive.

There's a reason why diving is a buddy sport. I'd tell you to get certified, then hook up with a few experienced divers who can show you the ropes and whose presence with you under the water will give you the confidence to enjoy the experience. Everything that's been said here is excellent advice; I would just add that a good buddy will do as much to keep you safe as anything else.

[Acquatic]

One thing kills more divers than anything else: panic. If you can keep your head, there's a way to survive.

There's a reason why diving is a buddy sport. I'd tell you to get certified, then hook up with a few experienced divers who can show you the ropes and whose presence with you under the water will give you the confidence to enjoy the experience. Everything that's been said here is excellent advice; I would just add that a good buddy will do as much to keep you safe as anything else.

So then the question comes to my mind is, is it pure panic or some actions caused by panic ?

I suppose panic is a natural thing to occur e.g. while underwater and doing night diving, a fish swims by close to your mask when you are not expecting it, you will surely get a jolt don't you? To me this would be pure panic and its natrual.

[airsix]

I view recreational diving much like crossing the street. Both are very safe activities if you pay attention and follow the basic rules. Don't pay attention or don't follow the rules and yes, both can kill you. It's like what ArcticDiver wrote about our being desensitized to certain risks. Your sensitivity to diving is high because it's new. That's good survival instinct. Your sensitivity to crossing the street is low because you've done it all your life. Like crossing the street, diving has been well vetted. The major risks have been carefully observed and mitigated through rather simple-to-follow guidelines. Major accidents are rare when those guidelines are followed. There will always be risk, but you can mitigate much of it by following the rules and exercising good judgement.

Without falling back on statistical data it appears to me that the majority of diving fatalities and major injuries fall into the following categories:
1) Ran out of breathing gas
2) Non-diving related medical emergency (e.g., heart attack)
3) physical injury during entry/exit (e.g., tripped on a big rock and fell)
4) decompression sickness

#1 can be almost entirely eliminated through following some very basic guidelines and by diving with the right people. By "right people" I mean any divers who maintain buddy awareness and take seriously their role of emergency-gas provider.
#2 requires being in shape and knowing when you are not fit to dive.
#3 just happens regardless of any activity diving or otherwise. Diving adds the risk of being in/near the water at the time.
#4 is a statistically insignificant risk when basic guidelines are followed.

So in summary, my honest opinion is that when the rules are followed and you exercise good judgement, diving's biggest risk is that you'll trip getting into and out of the water. I don't mean that as a joke - We have friends here who've broken bones falling while wearing scuba gear. My point is if you follow the rules the biggest risks are not the most sensational (i.e., broken ankle is more likely than decompression sickness).

[Acquatic]

"Your sensitivity to diving is high because it's new" i totally agree on this.

A good summary airsix, as usual. Thanks.

[trevorrowe]

aah ok, have read about the term "trim". But why it is specifically important here in these waters ? is it coz the floor has much slit ?

When most divers talk about being trim they mean in a generally horizontal or prone position. This has many benefits, including but not limited to:

1) more resistance to move up and down in the water column
2) less resistance to move forwards or backwards
3) less likely to contact the bottom causing silt-outs or damage to near by sealife
4) guaranteed to make you look cool

Being trim also refers to being balanced (weight wise) so you are not constantly tipping forwards or backwards. Also, if you want to be really cool you will learn to frog-kick (koolaid) instead of scissor kick. This will also help to avoid kicking up silt, majorly.

[H20doctor]

I liked diving... Untill I met pez and fishtiq... They ruined it for me..

[mz53480]

Q: "What is dangerous" - in scuba diving ??
A: See picture below. Guaranteed...you're gonna DIE if you dive with him.

1

death.JPG (12.72 KiB) Viewed 2002 times

[spatman]

you guys are forgetting two of the most dangerous things related to PNW diving:

snorkels and splitfins.

stay away from both, and you'll be fine.

[mz53480]

you guys are forgetting two of the most dangerous things related to PNW diving:
snorkels and splitfins. stay away from both, and you'll be fine.

*Spareair* Guaranteed death traps. Might as well call them 'sparedeath' or somethin...

[airsix]

Having good trim also keeps you warmer when you are wearing a drysuit because the pressure around you is more equal across your entire body. Being vertical in the water means high pressure on your legs and lower pressure at your shoulders. This reduces the insulating air-pocket around your feet, legs, the important areas near the top of your legs... Being prone in the water also reduces decompression risk and reduces the "work of breathing" by matching pressure on your regulator with the pressure on your lungs (by keeping them at the same depth). Your regulator tries to provide breathing gas at a pressure equal to the water around you. If your lungs are 12 inches deeper in the water than your regulator (i.e., you are upright) then they will be under more pressure and it will be more work to draw gas from the regulator. With proper trim you'll also be a more efficient swimmer making your breathing gas last longer.

All that said, I'd put trim way down on your list of concerns at this point. Walk before you run. Remember what I said about taking OW class: Learn, have fun, don't expect to be awesome yet. That will come later and shouldn't interfere with having fun now.

[Acquatic]

you guys are forgetting two of the most dangerous things related to PNW diving:

snorkels and splitfins.

stay away from both, and you'll be fine.

Why snorkels ? don't you need those ?

[oldsalt]

you guys are forgetting two of the most dangerous things related to PNW diving:

snorkels and splitfins.

stay away from both, and you'll be fine.

Spatman: In over 50 years of diving I have heard all of the absolutes. I have used both snorkels and splifins (borrowed) and have no problems with either. I feel I have more maneuverability with normal blade fins so I use them. One of the best divers I have dived with lies with his face down breathing through his snorkel to initiate the cold water breathing syndrome before descending which decreases his rate of air consumption. Although an older diver (70), he typically gets 80-90 minutes on his steel 80 in a normal 70-80 ft dive. I have been on dive charters which require snorkels and have been on charters which prohibit them. I have seen no research showing any hazard either way. Of course, if you wrap a hose around your neck you cannot wear a snorkel. Some of the statements I've heard from instructors through the years:
"BC's? You mean a CS vest. If you can't swim you shouldn't be diving."
"Power inflator? Stay away from those things."
"Dive computer? Electronics don't belong in the water."
"Octopus? It's just another thing to fail and a snagging hazard. Learn to buddy breathe."
"Nitrox? Trimix? Voodoo gasses. Stick with air. We know what it will do."
"A dry suit is a hazard if it rips and starts leaking. Stick to a wet suit which will still provide insulation even when torn."
See you in the water. - Curt

[Acquatic]

Having good trim also keeps you warmer when you are wearing a drysuit because the pressure around you is more equal across your entire body. Being vertical in the water means high pressure on your legs and lower pressure at your shoulders. This reduces the insulating air-pocket around your feet, legs, the important areas near the top of your legs... Being prone in the water also reduces decompression risk and reduces the "work of breathing" by matching pressure on your regulator with the pressure on your lungs (by keeping them at the same depth). Your regulator tries to provide breathing gas at a pressure equal to the water around you. If your lungs are 12 inches deeper in the water than your regulator (i.e., you are upright) then they will be under more pressure and it will be more work to draw gas from the regulator. With proper trim you'll also be a more efficient swimmer making your breathing gas last longer.

All that said, I'd put trim way down on your list of concerns at this point. Walk before you run. Remember what I said about taking OW class: Learn, have fun, don't expect to be awesome yet. That will come later and shouldn't interfere with having fun now.

ahh ok, that makes sense.

[Grateful Diver]

Great summary, Ben ... as usual.

So in summary, my honest opinion is that when the rules are followed and you exercise good judgement, diving's biggest risk is that you'll trip getting into and out of the water. I don't mean that as a joke - We have friends here who've broken bones falling while wearing scuba gear. My point is if you follow the rules the biggest risks are not the most sensational (i.e., broken ankle is more likely than decompression sickness).

I've found this to be true ... the only time I've ever had a student injury in a class was when Chris Finley's step-mom slipped on the rocks during a low-tide exit and landed face-first. Lynne had a remarkably similar injury about a year later ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Grateful Diver]

Q: "What is dangerous" - in scuba diving ??
A: See picture below. Guaranteed...you're gonna DIE if you dive with him.

death.JPG

... but you'll probably die laughing ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[H20doctor]

Q: "What is dangerous" - in scuba diving ??
A: See picture below. Guaranteed...you're gonna DIE if you dive with him.

death.JPG

I would never !!!! Dive with that guy.. He eats raw scallops.. And uses a snorkel..um you need written permission to use my copyrighted dive pics

[trevorrowe]

Why snorkels ? don't you need those ?

Snorkels aren't really that useful, they are just something to get in the way. That said, some training agencies require them for pool and open water sessions. Once I finished open water I put my snorkel away and have not used them since.

Snorkels are good for, well, snorkeling. I don't know about everyone else, but I spend the majority of my time under the water and the snorkel wont do me any good and would only get in the way.

As for split fins, yeah, personal preference. Split fins are nice when you use a scissor kick, but not for much else. Many divers in the PNW prefer a good paddle fin if they frog kick.

[spatman]

I see my tongue-in-cheek response was taken literally. I was making a joke referencing topics that used to cause a great deal of animated discussion.

There is nothing wrong with either, and no one will get hurt using them.

[Grateful Diver]

For the definitive word on scuba cliches, please refer to http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3443054-post47.html

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Nwbrewer]

I've found this to be true ... the only time I've ever had a student injury in a class was when Chris Finley's step-mom slipped on the rocks during a low-tide exit and landed face-first. Lynne had a remarkably similar injury about a year later ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Not to mention Mattleycrue's injured leg on cove 2 goose poo hill. I believe Mr. Stiq had a similar incident with less severe consequences.

[ktb]

For the definitive word on scuba cliches, please refer to http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3443054-post47.html

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That was awesome!

Thanks for the link, Bob. I've avoided SB because one dive board is all I can handle.

[Pez7378]

I liked diving... Untill I met pez and fishtiq... They ruined it for me..

It's YOUR fault I use a long hose!!

[dwashbur]

One thing kills more divers than anything else: panic. If you can keep your head, there's a way to survive.

There's a reason why diving is a buddy sport. I'd tell you to get certified, then hook up with a few experienced divers who can show you the ropes and whose presence with you under the water will give you the confidence to enjoy the experience. Everything that's been said here is excellent advice; I would just add that a good buddy will do as much to keep you safe as anything else.

So then the question comes to my mind is, is it pure panic or some actions caused by panic ?

I suppose panic is a natural thing to occur e.g. while underwater and doing night diving, a fish swims by close to your mask when you are not expecting it, you will surely get a jolt don't you? To me this would be pure panic and its natrual.

What kills is panic in the sense of not thinking things through. If you've gotten to the end of "Last Dive" you'll understand what I mean when I say panic is what killed Chrissy. The most basic principle when things go sideways is "stop, think, act." My DM instructor revised that to "stop, breathe, think, breathe, act." If you're panicked you'll do dumb things. That's what happened to Chrissy; if you haven't gotten to the end of the book yet I won't spoil it for you beyond that.

I'm not talking about the jump-scare stuff like coming face to face with a lingcod whose head is as big as yours (this happened to my daughter at Point Lobos in California). I'm talking about "Oh, crap, my reg is free-flowing" or "yikes! I'm down to 200 pounds and I'm still at 50 feet," or "my buddy just signaled s/he is out of air." That is, not the "sheesh, that fish is big!" or "that octopus just grabbed my camera" (happened to my wife at Redondo!), but the "this is a life-threatening situation" kind of panic. That's when it's most important to keep your head, and it's why so much of the basic training gets pounded into your head again and again and again. Because if you pause and think, you'll find a suitable way out. My favorite example:

I got certified with my wife and daughter. It was our third open water dive, at Blue Lake down in Utah (we lived in Boise at the time). We were doing air sharing exercises at about 25 feet. My secondary air source was an Air II, if you know what that is. Basically I was supposed to give my regulator to my wife and breathe off the Air II on my BCD hose. I knew the drill; she gave the signal, I gave her my reg while putting the secondary mouthpiece in my mouth. I took a breath. Nothing. Huh? I tried again. Nothing. Well, maybe it needs clearing, so I blew out on it. Still nothing, and now I've got no air in my lungs. Thankfully, the "don't panic, think" had been hammered into my head. I found my wife's reg, which she had taken out to receive mine, gave it back to her and took mine back. I looked quizzically at the instructor and he wagged his snorkel at me. DUH! I had grabbed my snorkel instead of the Air II. Since my snorkel wasn't 25 feet long, I couldn't get any air through it. I felt like an idiot, but I can say that not letting myself panic, even though I was 25 feet underwater with no air at hand. That's the sort of situation I'm talking about.

By the way, I still use a snorkel and enjoy it. I like to survey the water during surface swims; you never know what kinds of jellyfish, worms and other critters you can spot while going to or from a descent buoy or whatever. Others swim on their backs, so there's no reason to have a snorkel. My advice there is, try it. If you don't find it useful once you've finished your open water course, don't wear one. If you do find it useful, use it.

And I love my split fins. There again, I suggest you do what we did: try both kinds and go with what you like best. And avoid getting embroiled in the silly controversies over them!

Bob, that post is a definite classic. Thanks!