lamont wrote:When it comes to can lights, 10W HIDs aren't really enough around here to cut through the murk. On the other hand a 35W isn't really that much brighter than a 21W/24W. Unless you pick up one of the big ones for a deal or have a pile of cash burning a hole in your pocket, the 21W/24W lights are probably still the sweet spot.
Joshua Smith wrote:I don't agree about the 10w. I still take my 10w salvo out from time to time, and I'm still impressed by how great it is. I only bought my 21w because I couldn't stand being upstaged by Calvin. I agree that beyond 21w, it's just overkill. I don't see a huge difference between 21 and 35 or even 50w. I DO see a difference between 10 and 21, but it's not really much. 2 years ago, my buddy's 21w failed right before we were about to splash on the Governor, and I handed him my 10w- we did the dive, and it was just fine- no complaints from either one of us. it held its own at 240' in 10-15' viz.
I'd be happy with a 10W as a backup to my 21W in the event that it was out of service. And although most of us could get by with a 10W, I have to agree with Lamont on this one. The 21W is the "Stuffizzle!"
Pez7378 wrote:[
I'd be happy with a 10W as a backup to my 21W in the event that it was out of service. And although most of us could get by with a 10W, I have to agree with Lamont on this one. The 21W is the "Stuffizzle!"
I'm on my backup 21W since my primary 21W is going into the shop...
...or maybe its my primary 21W going into the shop and I'm on my backup now, I'm not sure...
And granted, if you find a deal on a used 10W then you can get something way better than a pistol grip for way less than a 21W can light. But once you're okay with dropping $900 on a new 10W HID or equivalent LED, I'd go all the way and buy a $1300-$1600 21W. I'd either save my money and buy something much cheaper, or spend enough to buy something completely future-proof.
I bought a dive rite 10W HID used, later flooded it and sent it to dive rite for repair. They offered to upgrade it to their HID1000 for just under 200. After the upgrade the light is really nice, before, the beam was not focusable, did not have a great hot spot, but I really liked it a lot anyway. Used it was 300.00, and I have seen better deals. If you go that route you can upgrade when you get the cord replaced, which is recommended maintenance, and dive rite does it for you for 40 dollars or so..
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu
In my opinion expense is very relative. Yip a canister light cost way more upfront, but when you figure out the cost of the light over it's lifespan they can be way less expensive than the alternatives.
My D8R cost me $180 back in the day, I used for about 100 dives so with batt's I figure this light cost me about $7 per dive. It does still work, I just got tired of lugging the huge thing around, it's a camping light now and has served me well for many, many years - on land where I'm not committed to toting it for an hour or more.
My Light Cannon Rechargable = $300, after about 250 dives I got tired of holding it too and sold it for $100. I figure it cost a bit more than a buck a dive. AFAIK this light is still going strong and probably has 1-200 more dives on it.
My Night Rider Blackwater 35w (i think it was 35) = $500, Lasted maybe 25 dives (BIG POS IMO) and it pains me too much to do the math. suffice it to say: it was the most expensive POS light I've ever made the mistake of buying and now sits in pieces in one of my ‘dumbass purchases’ boxes.
My 10w HID $990. The 10w HID had a little over 1400 personal dives on it and 5-600 dives from people I loaned it too when I sold if for $400. I figure this light cost me, with the 1 bulb I replaced under .50 cents per dive. This light will serve the person who bought it well for a very long time to come I'm sure.
My 18w HID $1300.... we'll see, it has a few hundred dives on it now and so far so good.
I dig my 18w for any kind of diving, as I dug my 10w (I'll be getting a new Halcyon LED very soon) the reason I got the 18w was for dive's that fall into the far ends of my diving spectrum. I love the 18w for shallow dives on good viz day's because it has enough juice (like that technical term) to cut a good visible beam for signaling even in very clear bright water. My 10w couldn't get hot enough to be seen on a sunny day in good viz. I like the 18w too for those dark dives (Lake Wa. and the Tenino Quarry Pool come to mind). I wouldn't hesitate to use my 10w in those dark places either however it does not have the punch that the 18w has so I prefer it. For most of my dives though a 10w works very, very well.
Some things I've learned along the way.
For the average recreational diver almost kind of light will do. Hand held incandescent, HID, LED. Can Light or whatever fits the budget. I've also learned that lights are expensive. They're either expensive on the front side or they're expensive on the back side. The cool thing.... you get to choose. Those that put the expense upfront tend to be the most useful and problem free. LED's while new to the market, are very promising and even right now they're DAMN good lights.
My advice it to gather your $$ and get the best light you can afford, do rechargeable as it'll save you ton's. Can lights are IMHO the best bang for the buck, don't worry about buying 'too much light', as I don't think that's possible if you're willing to learn how to handle it properly. A fickin mini Q40 is too much light if it's shining in yours or your buddies eye's. Those that squawk about 'too much light' are almost always victims of buddies shining a light in their eyes.
One final observation. People that I know that have bought used lights tend to have the most problems with them. I've seen people get great deals on used lights. $300 bucks for a used 10w could be a good deal. Unfortunately if you have a problem with a used light... it's your problem. If you have a problem with a new light from a reputable company it's not or shouldn’t be “your problem”. I’ve watched many people save a fair amount upfront on used can lights only to spend most of that which was saved in an attempt to make the light dependable. Add to that the grief of missing dives (or parts of dives), the hassle factor and IMO they become the most expensive lights. If you have a friend that has a can light for sale it may be a good option, at least you have some knowledge of the lights history and how it’s been working. I’ve seen far too many people get burned on buying used from strangers, to have much faith in used gear.
But… YMMV a great deal.
Ripper of drysuits, mocker of divers...there are no atheist divers in a mistimed Deception Pass dive. Jeremy
I have to say that I have bought a number of used canister lights, and as long as they're Salvo or Light Monkey, life is good. Customer service from that company is extraordinary, and repairs are not expensive. But there are definitely canister lights that are unsalvageable, and I wouldn't touch anything with a Welch Allyn bulb in it with a ten foot pole . . .
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
i have 3 HID's with W/A bulbs and have not had the bulbs in any of them die in the 4 or5 years i've had them (I got them used, a couple years old already) W/A bulbs have had the most beautiful light of all the HID's in my opinion up until the release of the new 21w (pretty, clean, blue light that cuts through murk like a laser). I know people will say that "all brightstar bulbs are made equal" but at DEMA it was explained to me that it is not the case, that you can get different bulbs with different temperatures. THIS makes a difference. Anyhow, I am not super gentle with my gear, but i don't pound in nails with those light heads. I have both brightstar and welch-allen (and even an LED) if interested parties want to see the difference.
Back to the original poster though, I am not sure they were ready for an in-service on canister lights. Unless they are ready for the BP/W to go with it There are a lot of really nice lights coming out now... I was playing with the new Hollis backup light yesterday at UW Sports and its a nice little light... although its burn time is a bit shorter than i'd like due to the battery choice, its hella bright. Also out there as people have mentioned are the LED upgrades for the other 'backup' styles lights and the Halcyon XP and HP Scouts (one is long burn time, one is extra bright - i like the extra nobbley grenade grips of them, easier to hold on to) and also the Light Monkey backup lights.
i think the message here is that people are encouraging you to look at lights that will be easily incorporated into your kit as you get more experience. you sound pretty enthusiastic (which we LOVE!) so thats part of why you are getting the onslaught of info
----
"I survived the Brittandrea Dorikulla, where's my T-shirt!"
LCF wrote:But there are definitely canister lights that are unsalvageable, and I wouldn't touch anything with a Welch Allyn bulb in it with a ten foot pole . . .
My Halcyon 18w Welch Allyn is the best light I've ever owned. Yes the bulb is expensive, I'm still kicking myself for the first one that died. But the bulb-reflector matches perfectly and the color is more consistent than the Brightstar IMHO. I like that the ballast is on the head with an E/O so I can swap canisters as I wish too. It wasn't very expensive 2nd hand and has been a great light.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
I'd have to say that IMO getting a good HID bulb is really a matter of 'the luck of the draw' for the most part. The most problem free bulbs I've had have been the Welch-Allyn I've owned. I have one that's over 10yrs old and several that are more than 5 with only 1 that failed within a year. I've had to replace 3 Brightstar bulbs in less than 3 years yet I have one that's about 8 that works perfect. I've always liked the output of either bulb and one of the failed Brightstars had the nicest spectrum that I've ever seen.
That said, I've known folks that had many problems with the Welch-Allyn's, several have converted to Brightstar with good success for the most part. Several stuck with the W-Allyn's and ended up with good long lasting bulbs.
The hard part was that we could never come up with a decent answer as to why the bulbs were failing. They believe they are treating them no different. Yet they end up, after several bulbs, with good trustworthy bulbs. Go figure??
I think all bulbs are not created equal, even if they're from the same MFG, built the same day by the same person/machine (I've no idea how the hell they make those things really).
Bottom line IMO... Bulbs are temperamental for the most part and should be treated delicately. Some bulbs are bad right out of the box, some are destined to fail early and I don't think it matters what brand or style it is.
Ripper of drysuits, mocker of divers...there are no atheist divers in a mistimed Deception Pass dive. Jeremy
Seeing as we are buying two of everything, I contacted Dusty2 for two of his modified SL4s... all I can say is Awesome! Other than the lights getting snowed in in Atlanta this worked smooth. Our lights cost $32 and we had them shipped directly to Dusty's place. He had them done within hours of recieving them and we picked them up that night (AOW dives started the next day). All in all including shipping the lights were around $70 and they were fantastic! Put them side by side with the UK C8 pistol grip light and there was no contest in either brightness or light quality.
Thank you very much Dusty! I really appreciate it!
with water and drink it, not snort the powder directly from the packet, right? 
" - Spatman
There are a lot of really nice lights coming out now... I was playing with the new Hollis backup light yesterday at UW Sports and its a nice little light... although its burn time is a bit shorter than i'd like due to the battery choice, its hella bright. Also out there as people have mentioned are the LED upgrades for the other 'backup' styles lights and the Halcyon XP and HP Scouts (one is long burn time, one is extra bright - i like the extra nobbley grenade grips of them, easier to hold on to) and also the Light Monkey backup lights. 
