HOG regulators

[cerich]

Wow..interesting thread.

I'm Chris Richardson, the "HEAD HOG"

Couple points for your consideration.

I have NEVER had any complaints regarding quality of Chrome from any dealer or consumer. The chrome we use is unique. It is a Trivalent chrome, which is MUCH more environmentally friendly that standard chrome. it is also MUCH more expensive. We did extensive testing of the chrome and in particular the resistance to the salt water environment. The Trivalent chrome we are using is more resistant to salt water than the standard chrome used by other brands.

The unsafe comments...completely untrue and WAY over the line . Regardless that the poster "Agent 47" (Arron Moser of Evergreen Dive) denied posting the comments I will be following up on those comments.

I have spoken with "agent 47" and he has told me that his account here was hijacked, "most likely by the mods here because they have all his information". He EMPHATICALLY denies that he posted in this thread. Another thing to leave to the people with a J.D. behind their name.

In the mean time I want to assure HOG divers that the HOG regulators are made to the highest quality and we stand 100% behind our products and reputation.

[Mattleycrue76]

I have spoken with "agent 47" and he has told me that his account here was hijacked, "most likely by the mods here because they have all his information".

[kdupreez]

Wow..interesting thread.
.. I have spoken with "agent 47" and he has told me that his account here was hijacked, "most likely by the mods here because they have all his information". He EMPHATICALLY denies that he posted in this thread. Another thing to leave to the ambulance chasers I'm afraid.

WHAT!! For what its worth, this board is a VERY small and close knit community.. we all know the mods personally.. They are NOT the kind of people to use another person's account to post fraudulent and incriminating information.. This sounds VERY fishy....

the "alleged" Hijack-Agent47 postings about "servicing regs in my shop" and seemingly having a lot of details on the internals of HOG regulators, sounds to me like it was made by someone that knows a lot about servicing regs and especially that has serviced HOG regs in the past.. like for example say someone that works in or runs a dive shop...

mostly the mods here dont service their own regs and most probably dont know the internals of a HOG reg (i.e. the diaphragm positioning, metal alloys etc.)

SO.. Going about accusing upstanding members of the community of hijacking accounts and making "Fraudulent posts in order to make someone look bad" is a SERIOUS accusation..

I.P. Addresses are logged for EVERY post being made.. So it its going to be interresting to see if the Agent47 posts made by the "hijacker" was made from the same computer as some other non hijacked posts......

[edit] removed the big red shouting at the mods to go trace ip's stat! .. (sorry mods, I'll use the "report this thread" next time..)

.

[Norris]

FINALLY!!!!!

[trevorrowe]

IANAM (I am not a mod), but lets all take a deep breath. I'd be very pleased if this discussion didn't spiral down. I like my nwdiveclub easy on the drama.

[cofford]

[spatman]

everybody relax. we're looking into it.

[Norris]

IANAM (I am not a mod), but lets all take a deep breath. I'd be very pleased if this discussion didn't spiral down. I like my nwdiveclub easy on the drama.

I love my NWDC to be generaly drama free, but then occasionally SUPER DRAMATIC for about a whole day and 5 pages of posts. This one might not be pretty, but we have to take care to watch what facts we are slinging as the truth. Many people get important information from this board, so each and every person stating "facts" needs to be ready to stand behind their words...I am curious to see what transpires in terms of IPs.
Before today, all I ever heard was good things about HOG so I am interested..

[spatman]

I have spoken with "agent 47" and he has told me that his account here was hijacked, "most likely by the mods here because they have all his information". He EMPHATICALLY denies that he posted in this thread. Another thing to leave to the people with a J.D. behind their name.

Hi Chris

Thanks for stopping by. I'd just like to clarify a few things here before this goes any further downhill.

Regardless of what you allegedly heard from Aaron (Agent47), none of the moderators or administrators have ever, nor will ever, hijack a user's account to post derogatory or inflammatory remarks about a product, service, organization etc etc. I have no idea what this alleged accusation stems from, and I would appreciate it if Aaron could tell us himself via either PM or email why he feels this way.

Secondly, the IP address from that specific post matches 79 other posts made from Aaron's account. So either he left a logged in screen on a work computer or some other similar situation, or there is some falsehood to his alleged accusations.

We are happy to help resolve this matter in any way possible, so please don't hesitate to ask. In the meantime we would appreciate it if this conversation could continue in a calm and reasonable manner without any further drama.

Thanks,
The NWDC Moderators

[kdupreez]

Thanks for looking into this Spatty!!

I'm relieved that you those late night PM's from Sounder was "really" from Sounder and not just a Mod trying to play with my feelings

That being said,I think it would behoove Agent47 to 'splain his accusation, if anything, for integrity sake.

.

[spudgunman]

speaking of hijack I really wanted to reply to this thread with this hijack

I disagree conditioner is far superior to shampoo I leave your hair silky and smooth

also Chris welcome to the club! I personally love my HOG's great to have you around I also shot you a PM I have a question I mean to call your company about.


...this message was approved by Kelly (Boy) and not hijacked

/endMSG-CRC verification Alpha-Two-Victor-Niner-Peanut

[cerich]

I have spoken with "agent 47" and he has told me that his account here was hijacked, "most likely by the mods here because they have all his information". He EMPHATICALLY denies that he posted in this thread. Another thing to leave to the people with a J.D. behind their name.

Hi Chris

Thanks for stopping by. I'd just like to clarify a few things here before this goes any further downhill.

Regardless of what you allegedly heard from Aaron (Agent47), none of the moderators or administrators have ever, nor will ever, hijack a user's account to post derogatory or inflammatory remarks about a product, service, organization etc etc. I have no idea what this alleged accusation stems from, and I would appreciate it if Aaron could tell us himself via either PM or email why he feels this way.

Secondly, the IP address from that specific post matches 79 other posts made from Aaron's account. So either he left a logged in screen on a work computer or some other similar situation, or there is some falsehood to his alleged accusations.

We are happy to help resolve this matter in any way possible, so please don't hesitate to ask. In the meantime we would appreciate it if this conversation could continue in a calm and reasonable manner without any further drama.

Thanks,
The NWDC Moderators

Thanks for looking into it so quickly. i personally was kinda shocked that I was expected to believe that...

To be absolutely clear to EVERYBODY, the last thing I would want to do is try to stifle honest conversation regarding EDGE/HOG products, I welcome it! I know that because of the quality and value I will come out on top most of the time.

Obviously when a dealer goes on record with comments that are really negative it's important to try and understand what exactly is happening.

I can state that I have NEVER had one communication from Evergreen expressing any concerns or complaints regarding the HOG regulators. In fact to my knowledge I was the first brand to sell to Evergreen and indeed at the Tacoma show in 2010 paid for half their booth to support their new business.(and promote mine as well)

I take the confidence and trust that divers have shown in choosing EDGE and HOG product very seriously. It is at the core of what we do. Untrue statements meant to damage that trust and my business require a response. Not for monetary value or entertainment of all the lovers, but because at depth you need to trust in your gear. That is why HOG was the first brand to offer and recommend (strongly) that technical divers take the TDI/HOG Service Repair Specialty, so that you can trust in your product and yourself. Because educated divers are good divers. Plus I was tired of hearing "sure, I can teach you to plan and execute a 300 ft Trimix dive but you are too stupid to service your regulators".

Not everybody (ok..maybe not very many ) in the dive industry appreciate my unique approach (and pricing) because there is a perception (helped by my competition) that what EDGE/HOG is doing is bad for the industry and the dive retailer. I disagree. The specialty is taught thru the retailer, the prices allow people who otherwise would not be able to afford the price of entry to not dive. IMHO that is supporting the industry and the local dive shop. Most divers who can easily afford the big brand top shelf regs will still buy them, it suits their need to show their success (kinda like the cars they drive or the watch they wear).

The rock bottom on this is simple, the comments are BS and they will be addressed.

[Tangfish]

Series of events:

1) Agent 47 randomly flies off the handle about a regulator I'd never even heard of (i.e., knew nothing about - good or bad), that he apparently also happens to be a dealer of.

2) I get an email from Chris here, threatening to sue Northwest Dive Club as a result of event #1. (most people who desire some form of support from us usually initiate conversation with something along the lines of: "Hello, my name is.... Can you please help me with [X]?")

3) Agent 47 then decides that it was the Mods (volunteers who spend time cleaning up spam around the site, smoothing feathers when they get ruffled, setting up the NWDC booth at the expo, etc.) who took control of his account for the purpose of slamming said regulator.

I think that some apologies are in order here.

[cerich]

I never threatened to sue NW Dive club. In fact I wanted you to have a heads up from me, not my attorney when you get a subpoena for your logs and user information on Agent 47. That's what I meant when I said you would be involved in some litigation...not that you would be on the receiving end of the litigation!

If that wasn't clear from my PM to you I apologize profusely.

[kdupreez]

I never threatened to sue NW Dive club. In fact I wanted you to have a heads up from me, not my attorney when you get a subpoena for your logs and user information on Agent 47. That's what I meant when I said you would be involved in some litigation...not that you would be on the receiving end of the litigation!

If that wasn't clear from my PM to you I apologize profusely.

A "heads up" to NWDC mods, was stand up thing to do in my books Chris. kudos. And also kudos for joining our band of crazies here at NWDC and standing behind your product.

I'm sorry that a dive shop and apparently a HOG dealer in our neck of the woods behaved badly towards you, You'll find that we're mostly a bunch of good mannered folk here, so dont let one or two posts give you the wrong impression And I know some ecstatically happy HOG/EDGE gear divers in this area that swear by your product!

Oh.. and welcome to NWDC!!

.

[CaptnJack]

I like my Hog regulators even if the black chrome is somewhat very chocolate brown now They have yet to be serviced. If anything they breath a bit easier than they need to.

Oh and my HOG suit is functionally fine. The cut is not really optimum for me but it works (could be bigger in the torsoe/shoulders and a smidge longer in the torso while leaving the legs alone). The rubber on the boots is showing some premature wear but time will tell how much longer they end up lasting, probably >year.

Overall things aren't super glossy pretty but work well. Thank you Chris Richardson for not slathering gear with fluff, hype and markup.

[Maverick]

I have spoken with "agent 47" and he has told me that his account here was hijacked, "most likely by the mods here because they have all his information". He EMPHATICALLY denies that he posted in this thread. Another thing to leave to the people with a J.D. behind their name.

In the mean time I want to assure HOG divers that the HOG regulators are made to the highest quality and we stand 100% behind our products and reputation.

I love my HOG regs, love them, down to 300fsw so far, and they perform as well as my Apeks, or scubapros for sure. I don't care about access to kits because I leave servicing to people with flow benches and tools. Servicing regs is more than just swapping o-rings when you dive deep in my opinion.

as far as MODS HIJACKING, total bullshit, major bullshit. All the mods are wonderful people who I know personly and Calvin I have been friends with longer than any of the mods, we have been friends since before he started this site and he would never designate VOLUNTEERS that would even think about abusing their access powers in this way at all.

Furthermore if People read the claims that and dramic posts of Agent 47 you can see that they totally match his writting style, lacking paragraphs, and having run on sentences. Just like if I were to make a post under anothers name you could tell it was me due to lack of grammar and capitol letters and punctuation.

IP addresses say everything, You can get in battles online who care its only a forum. but you starting punching the integrity of my friends in the face and that just darn right PISSES me off. I hope Aaron loses a lot of business from his poor character, slander and constant lies.

This direct slander on a company on a public forum has gone to far and deserves a ban, he'll learn from 6 months of silence. worked for others i know personally. . . me

Chris I am sorry your product was talked about like this on a public forum, But I assure you it won't keep HOG divers from diving your regs, they are wonderful.

Benjamin

[John Rawlings]

Well.....I have done some poking around. Here's a post from January 24th....in response to another poster that really likes his HOG regs:

If your eager to get a reg setup I would highly recommend you look at the Hog setup. It is a high quality easy breathing cold water reg setup at a very low price. I use it and know several others that do and we all really like it. It is also an easy reg to service yourself if you get to that point in your diving. Hog First Stage D1 Cold, Hog Balanced Second Stage you can get for around $270.00 brand new.

I have changed my opinion on the HOG after I saw the first couple come into my shop for annual service. The chrome on the first stage is very poorly done it flakes off because inspite the fact that it looks like an apeks is is not nearly as well built. it is in short a typical knockoff of a good regulator and is akin to buying a pair of nike shoes on a street in hong kong and expecting them to last like a pair of real ones. The environmental sealing is built to look good but due to the fact that the sealing surface is maited with a poorly chromed surface on top of a dirty alloy of brass it does not create a proper seal and allows salt water to enter the first stage where the problem is then exponentially worse. not only is the inside of the first stage not designed to resist corosion but the defunct diaphram seal at this point does little more than insure that the corosive salt water is now trapped inside the regulator where it can destroy your investment without concern of being thwarted by your post dive cleaning attempts. the second stage has a design flaw that is a literal ticking time bomb I had a customer who purchased one tell me he was diving with it only a couple months after buying it and purged the second stage after practicing a reg recovery at thirty feet and it stuck open and emptied his tank in the time it took for him and his buddy to reach the surface and get the valve shut off. I found that the tolerances in the second stage are far to tight on the purge button and a single grain of sand had been forced intot he tight area between the button and cover and as soon as the button was depressed it stuck fast in the pressed possision and all his efforts to stop it freeflowing were futile. It requred a complete take down and service to get the button to reset. In short I was excited about these things when they first came out, who wouldnt buy something that looks just like one of the best regulators made for half the price. But now you couldnt pay me enough to trust my life to one of these things.

Nuf sed....

Now, the Mods would like to ask EVERYONE to let things just sit at this point. Things are being investigated and checked into. The last thing the club needs is for a firestorm to be ignited.

Please....let things be while we try to understand what has happened, how it happened, and by whom.

Thanks for your support.

John

[Norris]

Furthermore if People read the claims that and dramic posts of Agent 47 you can see that they totally match his writting style, lacking paragraphs, and having run on sentences. Just like if I were to make a post under anothers name you could tell it was me due to lack of grammar and capitol letters and punctuation.

Benjamin

I agree with everything that Benjamin says except we could tell it was Maverick also by the bad spelling.

I am anxiously awaiting Aarons rebuttle on the fact that he states HE did not make the comment, and actually accused the Mods of signing in as him and making the claims. This seems like the desperate attempt of distraction (LOOK OVER THERE) by someone surpisingly backed against a wall.

[kdupreez]

..I have done some poking around. Here's a post from January 24th....in response to another poster that really likes his HOG regs...

Nice work John!! ...The heat in the kitchen is raising! It will be interesting to see if it remains occupied..

.

[Norris]

Agreed John...
Also I hope you know I was playing, Maverick, as I think you are neat!

[John Rawlings]

Deep breaths, folks....deep breaths....just like in diving, slow and easy, down into the diaphragm.

While we all very much appreciate your support, please hang out in the other threads and talk about diving while we get to the bottom of all of this.

- John

[Grateful Diver]

Wow ... I can't believe there was a train wreck and I wasn't on board at the time ... wow!

Only one comment ... to "correct something Chris said ...

Most divers who can easily afford the big brand top shelf regs will still buy them,

I just purchased a pair of Hog regs for sidemount diving ... and when I get back from Florida next month I'm planning to start selling off all my ScubaPro and Apeks regs and replacing them with Hogs. Mostly I'm doing it because (a) I want to standardize, and (b) I am tired of playing the game SP and Apeks play with service kits. It's my gear ... if I choose to service it, that's MY business ... not theirs. That'd be like Honda refusing to sell me parts to work on my car (an equally scary thought).

I'll check back in a year and let y'all know how robust these regs really are ... there's plenty of folks on this board who can attest that if I can't break it, it can't be broken ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

PS - Spatty, I like the new avatar ... but a paper bag would've been more appropriate ...

[H20doctor]

If you own a dive store ... and sell a Manufacturer's dive equipment, why bash them ? You're going to to
1) Lose your territory, and the manufacturer.
2) Hurt your dive store business.
3) Lose your job when the owner gets a call from the Manufacturer or area Rep for Hog.

I dont get it ..

[Tangfish]

I never threatened to sue NW Dive club. In fact I wanted you to have a heads up from me, not my attorney when you get a subpoena for your logs and user information on Agent 47. That's what I meant when I said you would be involved in some litigation...not that you would be on the receiving end of the litigation!

If that wasn't clear from my PM to you I apologize profusely.

Thank you for clearing that up. I went back and reread the PM. If you do so as well you'll see how it reads like a notice of litigation against NWDC, especially when paired with the info about Agent 47 inferring that it was the Mods who did it, but I can certainly also see how it could have been meant in the way that you have explained.

Anyway, apology accepted and it's all water over our heads as far as the PM is concerned.

By the way, I'm now checking out your regs as a result of this cluster bomb. I can't believe I didn't come across them earlier. We should talk separately about 'em. (where's the handshake smily at?)